As an NCP, do you feel that child support orders are just and fair in your case and that no matter what, the CP's lifestyle should be maintained for the sake of the children?

[Davy]

>> Our child has NO idea that her father has ever been arrested for non-support. If he developed a relationship with her, it would be a win-win situation for all of us (him, our daughter, and me). <<

"A win-win situation for all of us "  Exactly !  Excellent !  And thank you !
Amen !

So basically and generally speaking the entity that is causing the division between a daughter and her father and her parents (or former partners) is our benign government policies.  

The SOCIALISTS among us that desire government control of the people will say the system works.  The rest of us, the great majority, are living proof the system does not work for children and parents.

FYI I've always been an advocate of parents supporting their children and coached many fathers likewise.   If this helps .... regardless of how some act out ... me thinks the hurt runs deep.

Thanks for sharing !  

[cinb85]

I don't think that it is our benign government policies that is causing the division between our daughter and her father.  The CS office doesn't bother him at all.  They don't even try to collect any money from him anymore (even though there is a CS order in place), yet he still ignores his daughter (and all of his other children).  I honestly think that if all of his CS cases were dismissed today, he still wouldn't have anything to do with his children.  Sad, but true.

I DO think that the system works for "some" people, but it definitely doesn't work for me in my situation.  Not sure what a good alternative would be.  

I would like to believe that "the hurt runs deep" is true in our situation.  Not that I want my ex to feel hurt, but I would hope that he would feel some remorse for neglecting our child.  Unfortunately, I think that he just doesn't care.  Sad thing is that he has 7 children and they all have suffered due to his neglect.  Our daughter is the oldest and she's starting to realize that he has never been there for her and I hope to god that he wakes up very soon and starts developing a relationship with her.

My original post was just to let you know that here are NCPs out there who aren't fulfilling their obligations (not due to financial problems, but just due to not wanting to).  In my case, the NCP gets all kinds of assistance, yet I have never been eligible for any help.  I worked THREE jobs when our daughter was a baby just to pay the bills, while he collected welfare and received rental assistance.  When I tried to get temporary assistance, the pretty much laughed in my face.

[mistoffolees]

>OK OK I'll repeat the post again to help you keep on topic :
>
>... no CRIMINALIZATION should a SM CP lose her job and can not
>help provide her portion of support to the children. No
>hounding by CSE, no court appearances, no lost of driving
>privileges, no jail time, etc.
>

Yep. That's really going to help with CS compliance rates:

"NCP, we can't lock you up, we can't make you go to court, we can't take away yoru driving privileges, we can't even call you to ask you to pay, but I'm sure you'll continue to pay all the time just as if we COULD do those things."

[olanna]

If the CP can't provide, he/she doesn't have any repercussions such as loss of a driver's license, judgments, jail time...etc...He/she can fall back on the state for assistance, among other things.

The playing field between CP and NCP is very unlevel.  CP's have much power GRANTED by the court system.  It's too bad the playing isn't more level.  Until then, the current system isn't fair and isn't working for most people.

[Qwkprlspnr]

I'm not currently ordered to pay my Son's BM CS. I do anyway. Attorney's have been hired and fired for over a year now trying to sort everything out. I have retained one who has stuck with me through this from the beginning. BM is on her 3rd. Unfortunately for our 1.5 yr old son, he doesnt  know  his father, yet ....and the CS that I send to BM , I was told by her, covers "her attorney's fees". I pay CS to be a responsible father. I pay my attorney to represent me so that one day I will have a legal , court protected, relationship with my son. Apparently I am also paying someone to take that right away. CS should go directly to child care providers, grocery stores, clothing stores, school supply stores,Schools. In other words DIRECTLY to a childs neccessities. Not the PRP's checking account,especially if a Judge has'nt ruled on  the issue. Different situation, same frustration.Thank you for sharing, and thankyou for letting me rant onyour post. In case everyone reading and posting didnt notice, I'M Back! and more desperate than ever  for helpful insight and  witty, hard hitting, unbiased advice and opinions. TGFSPARC Deltabravo!

[Davy]

>>>Yes, the system has problems. But the stuff you're complaining about is NOT that common. More importantly, if you stop worrying about yourself and think about the kids for a change, you'd see that 89% of the time, the system is doing what it's supposed to. <<<

Yes I'm fully aware the system is doing what it is supposed ... create
revenue generating income (example government job programs) by disparaging children.

Personally, I've always advocated supporting children ... I did not need a government worker to order me to do something I was already doing and had done all their life at a much higher amount then was ordered.

What you and your system call CS was not an issue in my case.  It became real evidence in my wife's boyfriend parental termination case (ex-wife's) when it was proven that my kids support money was used to pay his CS and the remainder was used to buy a case a day.  Note that your system never refunded  the approx. 10K to my kids.

Moreover you should consider this post as a small sampling of evidence.  A huge majority of people and children across the nation would have experienced like characteristics in your broken system.

Children and parents don't exist to promote someone's self-serving ego.

BTW, you are simply making a fool of yourself while trying to present as evidence a "make-work Ad Hoc report" especially containing a disclaimer as to authenticity.  I doubt seriously that even HHS intended  this report to be used as evidence on a Shared Parenting internet site.
Geesh !

   
>>>Oh, and I'd be interested in your explanation of how child support payments are going to improve if there are no penalties like loss of driving privileges, court appearances, 'hounding' by CSE, etc for not paying your child support. Even a moment's thought would say that the only thing this could do is reduce the number of children being supported.<<<

Nevermind ... I don't think you can comprehend.

[mistoffolees]

>Yes I'm fully aware the system is doing what it is supposed
>... create
>revenue generating income (example government job programs) by
>disparaging children.

True to form, there's no evidence to back that up.

>
>Personally, I've always advocated supporting children ... I
>did not need a government worker to order me to do something I
>was already doing and had done all their life at a much higher
>amount then was ordered.

That's nice. If everyone was like that, we wouldn't need CSE. Unfortunately, not everyone's like that.


>BTW, you are simply making a fool of yourself while trying to
>present as evidence a "make-work Ad Hoc report" especially
>containing a disclaimer as to authenticity.  I doubt seriously
>that even HHS intended  this report to be used as evidence on
>a Shared Parenting internet site.

And, yet, you've never been able to show any errors in the report. As it is, it's the only evidence that's been presented.

There are several ways to discredit a report. Show that the data is wrong. Show that the analysis is wrong. Show that it's not representative of the entire population. Show that the assumptions are wrong. Lots more.

Unfortunately, "I don't like the results" is not a rational refutation of a study.

[mistoffolees]

>If the CP can't provide, he/she doesn't have any
>repercussions such as loss of a driver's license, judgments,
>jail time...etc...He/she can fall back on the state for
>assistance, among other things.
>
>The playing field between CP and NCP is very unlevel.  CP's
>have much power GRANTED by the court system.  It's too bad the
>playing isn't more level.  Until then, the current system
>isn't fair and isn't working for most people.


Another opinion that you've failed to show is typical of a large portion of the population.

No one denies that you're not happy with the system. I'm simply saying that you haven't shown that your particular experience reflects the experience of the population as a whole. In fact, the only evidence on the table says that your experience is NOT representative.

[olanna]

People come here because they can't believe this is happening to them...either CS awards are too high, they can't get a minimum to support their kids and/or they can't see their kids.

The population here is huge...wonder why that is?

[mistoffolees]

>People come here because they can't believe this is happening
>to them...either CS awards are too high, they can't get a
>minimum to support their kids and/or they can't see their
>kids.
>
>The population here is huge...wonder why that is?
 
I think you must have failed statistics.

There are perhaps a few dozen regular posters on this board. There are tens of millions of divorced couples in the US alone.

Do the math.