As an NCP, do you feel that child support orders are just and fair in your case and that no matter what, the CP's lifestyle should be maintained for the sake of the children?

[mistoffolees]

>Giggles,
>
>My point was not directed at you. I just wanted to say that
>NCP shouldn't be responsible for 100% of the financial burden
>despite what some people believe.
>


That's called a straw man argument. I don't believe I've read anyone stating that the NCP should be responsible for 100% of the financial burden.

So who are the 'some people' you're referring to?

[Ref]

Yeah, there are some characters that post on this board sometimes.

PBFH left DH and moved halfway across the country. He was making $9/hr and she was making about the same. She told him she was visiting her mom and she never came back w/ SD. They had 1 car, which she took on that "vacation" and never returned. They lived in my MIL's house. They had nothing. Years went on, BM didn't work for about 9-10 years. In the meantime DH worked his a$$ off. CS increased due to his increase in income. Guess what NEVER changed? SD's living conditions. She still lived in the projects. She still ate boxed mac and cheese several times a week because they had no groceries. Her mom still drove a deathtrap car. Not only did SD live off childsupport 100% but BM lived off of it too. The increase did no good for SD. The only time anything changed was when BM got a job. Things got a little better for SD. They moved out of project and into a low rent facility. It is a little safer, but not much. BM bought a new car. Amazing what happens when there are 2 incomes. BM didn't think anything of the "fact" that DH was supposed to pay 100% of SD's support. Even after the judge explained to her what DH's financial obligation was and what her financial obligation was.

She just doesn't listen to anything she doesn't want to hear, she will get so defensive she is just blatently insulting or she tries to continue arguments so long that she wins only because you are too tired to argue anymore.

Anyway, this story is boring on this board because so many NCP have the same one to tell. Manytimes over the past 7 or so years, there have been misguided CP's that have to have the child support system spelled out to them.

I have to say $275/month is pretty low. It must be pretty tough. On the plus side, your son will understand the value of a dollar better than those you get handed everything.

I am so happy to know oldtimers like you and Kitty and Mixed are around to offer good advice when people ask some tough questions on this board. Even if someone says something that you guys might not agree with, you are so respectful. Thanks for that.

Best wishes to you and your family
Ref

[Kitty C.]

Discretionary income???  You're not serious, are you??  If you are, then you need a serious dose of reality, Mist.  Only people in the high income brackets can have discretionary income and still maintain a certain lifestyle.

What I was talking about is the REALITY of the majority of the population and the limited incomes they have after a split.  And don't tell me that there's no way that's possible.  If the majority of the nation's population are so well off as to have 'discretionary income', then why are so many of them in debt and having their homes foreclosed on?  Why is credit card debt at an all time high?  

DH and I had to go to a credit counseling service and cut up all our credit cards.  Two that he had were mainly used during and after his divorce.  That was the only way he could live and those two alone accounted for approx. $30,000.  We got the interest rates knocked down to almost nothing and will have them all paid off within a couple years.  In the meantime, we're paying $1000 a month just for paying them off.  So maybe we'll have $1000 a month of discretionary income when that's paid off?  Hardly..........by then we'll be in our late 40's and just starting to add to the limited retirement funds we already have through work.  And we don't even own property....we can't afford it.

The reality of the majority of today's middle class is getting by by the seat of their pants and praying to God no major catastrophy strikes that could put them in the proverbial poorhouse and rob them of their meager retirement.  As for the kids, they do the best with what they've got........and I'm not talking about the ones who give up and walk away from their kids.

[Davy]

Even a casual observer could plainly realized I was adamantly exclaiming to Olanna's positive example of how family matters can function without interference of the government and .... the kids and the family win ... which means YOU, the GOVERNMENT and the INDUSTRY  are HUGE LOSERS.

BTW, this thread had nothing to with NCP's complaining about paying support so STAY OT.  

Try to understand and live in reality.  My oldest son called me 'Dickhead'  when he was a GOVERNMENT OPERATIVE.  Before and after he always called me 'Dad' just like my daughter and youngest son.
My kids scoffed at the government titles.  

When the government TRIED to repaint me as NCP I never complained about the support amount (ridiculousy low) because I functioned as Dad.

When the government TRIED to repaint me as CP I never complained about the support amount (ZERO) because I functioned as Dad.  

Kids want and need a fully supportive/cooperative mom and dad not a ncp and cp in a limited, divisive, non-supportive or uncooperative role.

Here's my definition of 'child support'.  Child support is a recovered amounts of money children shoulda, woulda, coulda received had it not been for the malicious, intentional, and fraudulent actions of government and all the government operatives.  

[mistoffolees]

Define it any way you want.

If you really believe that NCPs would pay MORE support on average without the government involved in any way, you're really deluding yourself.

[Ref]

I am not sure how many CP's believe the idea that it should cover 100%. My mom did, my husbad's ex did, at least two of my friends did. It seems like a lot to me.

I don't even think they think it is fair. For all the women I mentioned, they treat CS as a punishment. I will leave my mom out of it and I told you about DH's ex.

The first friend I was thinking of was married to a super nice guy. They got pregnant after a few months of being married and she miscarried. Their marriage went to hell. It was pretty bad to begin with because my friend has some mental problems. She cheated on him. She told me that she wished she didn't miscarry so that she can sue him for all the CS she could get. (Yes, I am rethinking my friendship). She makes more money than him and she also said she was going to try for alimony.

The second friend of mine seperated from her husband because he cheated on her. She was talking about how she was going to screw him so bad by making him pay for everything related to their special needs son, between CS and healthcare.

It is not only them that I hear this stuff from. Just like as a white person, other white people wrongly think they can wrongly confide in me their racist thoughts, some women think they can confide in me sexist thoughts. I hear it pretty regularly when divoce comes up.

To me the "I'm going to get him for all he's got" mentality gives me some clue that they not only believe that they are not trying to get their fair share for support but additional "punative damages".


Ref

[Kitty C.]

I saw it big time with DH's ex for many years.  The attitude that I saw was 'I'm going to hurt you as badly as I feel you've hurt me.'  But the only weapon she had was SS, and she used it for all it was worth.  She didn't have the means to take him back to court for additional CS, so she limited his access to SS to the minimum that the court would allow, which was 4 days a month.  And we only live 2 blocks away!  She also punished SS if we happened to see him (either with her and/or new hubby) outside of our 'allotted time' and SS acknowledged our presence.

It was only when she went through her second divorce did she finally 'see the light' and lighten up on her attitude.  For years I was the wicked stepmother and DH was evil.  Now she asks me for advice and to sit in on school meetings and calls DH to mediate between her and SS when they are at odds.  Literally a 180 degree turnaround..........

[Everyside]

my Dh's X came right out and said it.   "The only weapon I have to hurt you with is SD and that's what I'm going to use."   DH didn't argue about the money ($900/mo for one child in Alabama) or the things she wanted from the divorce.  He only wanted to see his daughter.  That was too much for her.  

[Giggles]

You brought tears to my eyes!!

Thing is, I see both sides and I feel that untill you have that perspective, you never really fully understand.  I am NCP to my OD so I know what it's like to pay support and thankfully, my X and I get along pretty good where she is concerned.  It's pretty tough though being a Non-Custodial MOM...OMG the comments that I've heard from other women is just astonishing...The majority of the time they say "I would NEVER give up my child"..*ugh*..I love when I get those statements because I blast them and make them feel like they are less than an inch tall!! *rolling eyes*  I say to them "I didn't give up my child!!!  At the time I wasn't able to provide a good life for her and my X was...so I put HER needs before my own...I guess that isn't important to you?  It was VERY important to me that SHE be taken care of and she was!!  I suppose you don't love your child that much???  You would deny your child just to spite your X?? That's really sad!!!  I feel sorry for your child!!!!"

As for the CS set at $275...sure it would be nice if it were higher and then we'd be able to do more "fun" things.  Thankfully, I do have a great job and I make fairly decent $$.  DS is not suffering, he is fed, has nice clothes, nice home and gets to do "fun" things every now and then.  When I grew up...my parents set $$ limits on things (had to with 5 kids in the house)...and I do the same with my kids.  It boils down to want or need....if they NEED shoes...I will buy them...but on my terms...If they WANT more expensive shoes...then they have to pay the difference.

I'm excited about Christmas this year!!  I'm not buying the kids any toys, no clothes and I've told them straight up....This is all you're getting for Christmas..hehehe  We're going to Disney this year!!  What's even better is that my OD will be with us as well!!!  This was X's year to have her for Christmas, but when I found out we got the Condo....I called him and asked if we could trade...he said sure!!!  I wish more people would work together for the sake of their kids....it would make a lot of this Court BS go away!!!!

[Genie]

but he wasn't ordered to pay a huge amount either.  When you think that was his half of supporting the children and BM should provide the other half, I always thought it was fair.  I know though that BM was repeatedly telling the children their Dad should get a "better" job because she didn't feel he was paying enough.