Custody Order

[SamsDad]

This is my first time here and I have a question. I was recently in a custody battle with my ex girlfriend and I had to represent myself becaue I didn't have money for a lawyer and she did. After months of it dragging on we came to agreement that she have sole legal and physical custody and I have reasonable and liberal visitation that is mutually agreed upon. Did I shoot myself in the foot with this?

Also, she is planning on moving in a few months to another state because of a job transfer. Can I do anything to stop her? She said that I can't because we don't have anything in the consent order that says she can't move and because she has sole custody, she can move if she wants. Is this true? Can I take her back to court to get the order modified? If so what are my chances?

Thanks for your help

[nosonew]

You NEVER should have given up LEGAL custody.  Yep, shot yourself in the foot on that one.  You have NO say in where the child lives, medical info, school info, etc.  You should have had an attorney or gotten on this board sooner.  Hopefully someone has some info that will be useful to you regarding changing that.  Also, you should NEVER agree to "liberal visitation", you can't enforce that type of wording.  Sorry.

[DecentDad]

Hey there,

I'm not an attorney, but here's my take:

Sorry to say that yes, you got royally screwed on this, and it's going to be quite an uphill battle to change anything.  Unless your ex is a very very bad parent who uses drugs and sleeps with men in front of your child, even the best lawyer has a very slim chance at changing anything.

I say this on one condition... if your agreement was never made into orders, you have a shot.  I can't imagine that her lawyer didn't draw up a stipulation for both of you to sign and have made into orders, though.

It sounds like your ex told her lawyer that she'd want to move, her lawyer set the foundation to make it easy, and you agreed to the foundation.

So, here's where you are now...

Because she has sole legal and physical cusotdy-- upon your own consent-- Your ex is going to have an easy time moving away.  You're going to have a very tough time fighting it.  Your only wildcard would be evidence that she hasn't let you see your child under "reasonable and liberal visitation."  Then you have a less slim (but still tough) argument that the move is to further alienate you.

You can choose to blow resources on hiring a lawyer on the slim chance you can block the move.

Or, if you accept that your ex is moving away, you can devote resources (i.e., hire an attorney) to negotiating the best possible scenario for your child.

You don't give any details of child's age nor how close you are.

Here are some general ideas of how you can modify your orders:

1.  You travel to see child for a 72 hour weekend every month.  Your ex splits reasonable travel and lodging costs with you.
2.  Child spends a week with you around Christmas at your residence.  Mother pays for child's safe travel (e.g., having to fly with child to/from).
3.  On alternating years, child spends a week with you during spring break.
4.  Child spends a month (or six weeks?) with you during summer.  You pay for child's safe travel.
5.  If mother is moving out of state, and if your state has better child support calculations, your state to keep jurisdiction of the case.

Ultimately, if you're truly concerned about being involved in your kid's life, you'll find a way to move to the same location and then trying to further modify orders for something closer to 50/50 parenting.

So, your situation sucks, yeah.  You did screw up majorly by agreeing to give her sole/sole.  All you can do is suffer the consequences and slowly work back towards being as involved as you can be.

Above all, learn your lesson about attorneys.  If she has one, and you don't, you are going to get screwed.  Find, earn, borrow the money to retain an attorney now.

Best,
DD

[SamsDad]

Thanks for all the advice.  My child is 9 months old and my aggreement was signed by a judge..I think it is called a consent order.

I had initially filed the papers asking for Joint custody representing myself and then she got an atty. She has alot more money than me, she is a physician. Well somehow during this process we decided to get back together and try and work on getting married. During this time, I asked her if we could just drop the case since I initiated it anyway. She said that it didn't make sense for her to pay all that money to retain a lawyer to just drop the case so she said the we could just settle out of court and her atty would draw up the papers and all I would have to do is read and sign them. She then said that I shouldn't have an issue with her getting sole custody because since we were trying to get married soon that this court order would be null and void. I asked her about the wording with the liberal and reasonalbe visits that had to be mutually agreed upon. She said that she thought the wording was very open which meant that if I wanted to keep the baby every weekend I could because she would not have a prob agreeing to it. Also she had it drawn up in the document that I would pay 500/month for CS plus 20% childcare costs.  Well I told her that I couldn't afford that amount because at the time I was making less than 20K/year and according to the CS calculations I was supposed to only pay 150/month. Then she said that she would never enforce this because we were getting back together it was just a document.

It is now several  months later she breaks up with me, kicks me out of her house and tells me that I owe her 500/month according to the court order and the 20% Childcare. And she has filed for the back CS that I didnt pay (she told me at the time not to worry about it because I was contributing in other ways to the baby..spending time etc and giving about 200/month) Well her atty has sent me papers and they are now getting ready to do the wage garnishment thing. She is also taking me to court for the Childcare that I havent paid.

She won't accept my calls and when I ask to see Sam she says that I won't be able to see him this weekend because they are going out of town..I told her that the order said reasonable and liberal visitation...she said yep it does but it also says mutually agreed upon and she ain't  agreeing no time soon. I am so depressed, I miss my son so dearly..I used to drop him off to daycare .

I have been so out of it for the past few weeks..I trusted her and she pulled a big fast one on me..I never thought she could get so cold when it comes to our son.. I feel like giving up..I feel like I don't have any type of legal ground to stand on...Can she do this?

[DecentDad]

Hi Dad,

Today is March 23, 2004.  It's the first day of your future.

Would you like to be a victim today?  Or would you like to change your future?

If you want to continue to be a victim, do nothing.  You are more f'd than you realize.

If you would like to change your future, it sounds like you have a few lessons to learn:

1.  Never trust this woman again.

2.  The legal system will not make everything "all better" if only one party is using it.

3.  Your failure to watch out for yourself has put you in among the worst positions of fathers who have posted on this board.  Seriously.

Your ex and her attorney already know that you're a chump.  You have given them no reason to believe that you have a spine in any of their demands, and your ex obviously doesn't care if you drive yourself homeless to support your son that she'll never let you see again.

Do you like that future?

Again... it's March 23, 2004.  The past can't be undone.

Beginning March 24, 2004, how would you like your future to be?  Every day that passes-- allowing yourself to wallow in your self-pity for your decisions-- your future gets exponentially worse.

You need an attorney to try to rectify some of this, and you need that attorney to start working for you BEFORE they file contempt for failure to pay child support.

If you think it's bad now, her attorney is only starting on the path to destroy your future.

Your situation is extremely f'd up.  Only you can start taking the right action to fix it.  Beg for handouts from friends and family to hire an attorney who is well-recommended to you.

Good luck on this.  Your son is counting on you to do what it takes to stay in his life.

You have support here, but it's up to you to start advocating for yourself and what you know is right.

DD

[SamsDad]

DD Thanks for the words of encouragement to let me know that there can be some type of way out of this. I called some family and friends for small loans that I know I can repay and I let them know the situation. I didn't really tell everyone everything because I was to ashamed of how I trusted my sons mom to do the right thing and at least let me see him. Well, so far I have gotten 3K together from loans from friends and family and I am gonna try and pull extra from my credit cards. I have made a list of attys to call who offer the free consultation services and then I plan to hire someone ASAP because my ex is like a bulldog going straight for my neck.

I wish I would have known about this site sooner, but I am glad at least I know now and maybe some of this sh*t can be modified before it is too late.

I understand now why she just let me go and is giving me extra grief. I heard through a mutual friend tonight that she has been seeing someone from work and it is getting serious so she is phasing him into my son's life and phasing me the hell out. I can't let that happen.

Do you recommend any articles on this site that I need to read and utilize while I do my atty search. I plan to hire someone by the end of this week.

Thanks again for all of your honesty and encouragement.

[DecentDad]

Hi,

Glad to hear that you're motivated to fight to be a dad.  This is the toughest time of your life, and strength is so critical.

If you have no attorneys recommended to you, you may wish to spend a day or two sitting in the courtroom of the judge who signed your consent orders.  It's in that courtroom that your modification hearing will take place.

Watch for attorneys who are very outspoken for their clients and who don't piss off the judge.

After their case is done, follow them into the hall and ask for their card so you can set up a time to meet with them.

Simply going to attorneys who have free initial consultations is like throwing a dart.  They'll likely all tell you what you want to hear so that they can get your retainer money.

In terms of what to read, there are a hundred articles on this site.  Start reading.

There's a book called "Divorce Poison" by Richard Warshak.  Check it out from your library to understand the dynamics of what's happening with your son.

There's a book called "Winning your Child Custody War" by Charlotte Hardwick.  This is an $80 book (you may find it used on Amazon or Ebay) that should be your bible for the next couple years.

Put in your head that you may be fighting for a couple years prior to having some resolution, and you'll pace yourself emotionally and mentally.

Best,
DD

[SamsDad]

DD-

Well, I found an atty that I really liked..aggressive and everything. I talked to him last week. His retainer is 3K. I was going to pay the retainer this week, but you wouldn't believe what happened. She had her atty to send me a letter via certified mail which I received today where she wants to modify the sole/sole. She wants to give me joint legal custody of Sam! Plus she wants to modify the vague verbage of the visitation change it from liberal and reasonalbe to something more solid. She called me and said that she did alot of thinking and she realizes that Sam deserves both parents who love him to be an active part in his life and she knows that I love my son. She also said that she does not plan to leave for another year but that she wants to have our attys or mediation talk about the terms where she pays half of my traveling expenses etc.

I am going to have my atty look over the documents that I received today and then the new order should be modified by next week. I will let you know how it goes.

DD, I don't know what came over her to give in like that but I feel really lucky that she did because I know that I was screwed from the first court order and it was going to be hard to change things.

I will keep you posted

[richiejay]

Be careful...my ex tried this trick when we went at it the first round.....The GAL report went in my favor so she back-pedaled..agreed on joint physical and legal custody, no child suport either way with the only thing that was to be decided was where he went to school when he turned 5.  Well, she tried all the same stuff: sole physical custody, leave the state, boat loads of child support......the same shit that I just spend 20k on she wants to do it all over again.  Luckily, she lost.  My point is, don't settle for less than what you want, and always wait for the other shoe to drop.  I know it is a sucky way to view things, but ask anyone on this board..."just when you think it couldn;t get any worse..."

[Kitty C.]

'She wants to give me joint legal custody of Sam!'

You've got a LOT of learning to do, my friend.  First, it AIN'T hers to 'give'.  It has to be ironed out in court.  You BOTH are the parents and NEITHER of you can call the shots, so if you disagree on anything, it must be worked out either by mediation or the judge.  Second, anyone here will tell you that 'joint legal' ain't worth the paper it's printed on.  All joint legal is is that you both have to agree on what happens to you child, be it where they go to school, what extra-curricular activities they participate in, what doctor they see and what the outcome is (treatment, meds, surgery, etc.), and so forth.  After what she's done, do ou HONESTLY think she's gonna 'ask' you to assist in these decisions??  I think not.  And it's damn hard to get on contempt, too.

My DH has 'joint custody' and I have YET to see the PBFH ask to discuss what to do with SS.  Usually, we NEVER know that he's been to the doctor until we get the bill.  If he wants to play football, we don't know until we're handed the schedule, then forced to accomodate with the limited time we have him (4 days a month, tho he only lives 2 blocks away).

I suggest you take a 'few' days, read everything you can on this site and others, go to a library if you have to, and confer with a few attys., because you MUST educate yourself on not only what your (and your child's) rights are, but HOW the system works.  Many here will tell you 'document, document, document', but I also say educate, educate, educate'.