Visitation Right for son and law.

[Pyle Sgt]

I found this forum hoping to find some answers for my step daughter and her husband who has a 4 year old little girl from a previous marrage, whom he can't see hardly at all because of an exwife who has some mental issues.

I am from Illinois and am approaching the end of my child support for my daughter. I must be one of the lucky ones out there that everything seemed to work out for myself and my daughter. I left my wife when she was 2 years old because of the spending my wife could do on a daily basis. I worked a full time job and a part time job to make ends meet. It was very hard and I lived the life of a monk, and we were always broke do to my wifes spending. I filed for divorce, moved out and started my child support and visits, and things went well then. My exwife and I had some bumps in the road but always worked them out and did it for the benifit of our daughter. I remarried 10 years ago to a wonderful lady who cared about my daughter, and had her own daughter from a a previous marriage, whom the father skipped on, and she never heard from again. I am thankful for my ex being willing to flex and work with me on rasing our child, it took allot of hard work, but it all worked out.

On with my problem.

My step daughter whom is 23 and her husband is 26 both work and have a little home of their own, both decent hard working people, and are trying to build a life for them selves. My son in law has a 4 year old girl from his exwife. She has done everything she can to make things not work, being visitation, child support, phone calls, false abuse problems, and many other issues. My son in law has tried for the past year, and I have gone with him many times to go pick his child up for visits, these are court ordered by the courts. His exwife must have some mental issues and is violent. At Christmas this year I went with him to go pick up his daughter, and to meet her at the arrival place, his exwife knew we were coming. She never showed up as usual, and does not answer her phone. We have called the police many times, they show up, look at the court papers, and then explain there is nothing they can do about it, so we go home without his daughter. Well this weekend was his visit time with his daughter, and I went with him again. She did show up, and told us we have 2 hours and thats it, I tried to explain to her that it is my son in laws weekend, and she spit in my face then and pushed me. We called the police, and she tried to have me arrested for assault and lied to the police. The police took statements from the 4 year old child who was crying and dropped the matter, papers were shown to the officer over the court ordered visits. He did not even look at them. Told us to go ahead and take the child but return her at the time she is suppose to be home with here mother. the whole time this was going on, the son in laws exwife was cursing and making threats to me in front of the policeman, and the officer did nothing. So we leave with the child. We drove 20 miles down the road, and was pulled over by 2 Illinois State Police and several county, their guns were drawn, and my son in law and I were arrested for kidnapping, his daughter was crying, what a mess. We tried to explain to the officers of what was going on, but they did not want to here it. After arriving at the police deptment, the officer did read over the divorce papers and let us go, It seems my son in laws exwife made another false police report for kidnapping and abuse to the child, we were also questioned on that issue. I did ask the Sargent if we could press charges against the son in laws exwife, and was told no! There was nothing we could do. This has happened many times and it continues, with the Chicago police doing nothing to stop this.

The son in laws exwife lives in the west side of Chicago, and myself and my son in law live in a small farming community in central Illinois, so its right at 100 mile drive one way. So this is getting to be a pain everyother weekend, and having to go though all this drama. My wife and family and my son in laws family, have all been questioned from DCFS about abuse to the 4 year old child, been threatened by this woman, and had to endure her foul mouth. And the sad part is, she feeds on lies and being violent, and the police do nothing, or the courts in the Chicago area! My stepdaughter and my son in law have had nasty phone calls from her at home and at work. My son in laws exwife even showed up at my stepdaughters work place and talked to her boss about her being a child molester, and almost cost my stepdaughter her job! Our local county police arrested her for this and a restraining order was put against her for any contact with my step daughter, and work place!

My question is, do these divorce papers mean anything to these Chicago police? And how can these Chicago police keep telling us there is nothing they can do about the visits my son in law has, even with the court orderd paper work??

I have been told by my local county states attorney that they by law, the police have to honor these papers and should back up the court ordered papers, and that this is a way of the Chicago police just being lazy.

My step daughter and her husband have been drained of money and time by the courts by my son in laws exwife, we have loaned them money also with no results from the courts, he is current on his child support also. I myself will not be threatened by this woman or her mental games. But I am worried about the 4 year olf girl. who knows all kinds of foul language, and has some mental issues that are developing. DCFS has been called by many people on this woman and they do nothing to try and help. All the calls from DCFS, police and threats from son in laws exwife, are taking a toll on everyone. We all just need some answers on what we can do, to help this child and get the childs visitaion going again with out the problems. Please help us if you can, the lawyers, courts, and police don't seem to be helping.

[Gestalt]

The police cannot really do anything at all to enforce the orders, this matter must be brought back to court in order for things to change. If your SIL has the time and the inclination, he could educate himself and appear in court pro se if they cannot afford an attorney.

[MixedBag]

I agree -- maybe you should carry a small tape recorder in your pocket to document what's going on during these exchanges.

Also, sometimes when the other side isn't cooperating and being nasty, your only choice is to take it back to court and ask for make-up time.  The lack of cooperation should improve.  The nastiness -- well, that may never go away.

I wanna commend you as GRANDPA for assisting by travelling to go pick up the child and bring her back.

Yes, it's a lot of time on the road.......all of the divorces I deal/dealt with have been long distance and there have been many days on the road for the sake of the children. 

As was suggested, if the parents don't have funds, maybe they can learn the process and go represent themselves.  Not the easiest thing to accomplish, but you can make it work.

[Pyle Sgt]

Thanks for the answers, It just felt good to unload some of this. I went with my son in law Sunday to return his daughter, and it was a horrible. We arrived at the meeting place a half hour before the little girls was to be home. Police showed minutes later and talked with us until she arrived. It gave us a chance to chat with the Police officers and give him a heads up on what might happen. We were right to, she showed up and screamed and yelled at us, cursed at the small child, and made some idol threats. All this in front of the officers. The officers did nothing or said a word to her about her actions. I did ask the officer if he could appear in court and make a statement, and he refused.

Today my son in law received a call from the police in the Chicago area, and DCFS about my wife and myself beating this 4 year old girl. So in the morning we have to call the police and DCFS for the 3rd time and make statements to clear our name again. Its always the same in court with or with out a lawyer when we go to court, it gets dropped by the judge, and nothing happens to the exwife of my son in law. I think we counted last weekend and my son in laws exwife has made a total of 22 false report to police concerning abuse from family members when they argue with her or challenge her. And DCFS and courts do nothing to her. I just don't get it.

I would hate to think of the $$$$ that has been shelled out to lawyers and courts and nothing has been taken care of. We have the court papers stateing the visitations time and every other weekend, been to threw 3 different lawyers with nothing done or any of this crazy lady.

Some of your answers said using a tape recorder or I have heard a video camera, is this legal? And we have saved all the past voice mails on our cell phones, and nasty tex messages, can these be used in court to stop this madness? Its not like my son in law wants costody, he just wants the visits with his daughter, and he is getting about 10% of them right now.

Any other suggestions will be helpful if anyone has them. Thanks for the current answers, its a start.

[Kitty C.]

Audio or video recording?  You bet it's legal, as long as you have it in plain sight.  And it's possible that if you have a camcorder, she just might straighten up her act a little....................maybe.  Voicemails and texts are iffy....anyone could have sent the texts and it may be up to the whim of the judge as to whether he thinks the voicemails are important.

And yes, you CAN get the officer to testify...........it's called a 'subpoena'.  I hope you got the name of the officer, and if he spent any time at that specific location at that specific time, there will be some record of him being there.  Minimally, he would have notified dispatch of what he was doing.  And there will at least be an audio record of that.  It's obvious that the SOP of that particular department does not allow officers to get involved in any domestic dispute unless it crosses the threshold of criminal (like assault).  So it's not surprising that the officer did nothing, but at least it kept the ex from flat out assaulting either of you.

One thing, tho.  Given your last experience, you might want to consider making your own report to DCFS, especially since there was an officer present.  Third party objective reporting of what the ex is doing at exchanges  can be used in court as well, and anyone who is a mandatory reporter is bound by law to report it and testify about it.  At your next exchange, you might want to 'remind' the officer (who is a MR) of his duties.

At the next exchange, I would STRONGLY recommend doing the exact same thing as the last:  request an officer to stand by, but take a camcorder with you as well and tell/show the officer ahead of time.  Unfortunately, about the only way you will get anything resolved is to go back to court and getting a new atty. to do that, preferably one that specializes in family law.

The next time you go to court, demand sanctions be put upon the ex, that if she violates them, she risks losing custody.  Like if she verbally threatens either you, SIL or the child at exchanges.  The mental issues that the child is showing need to be evaluated.  If you get back to court, demand an evaluation by a pediatric specialist, have the court pick the specialist (so that the ex won't have a case to complain about it), and offer to pay at least half of the cost.  Make sure that this evaluation includes interviews with the child alone and with both parents separately.  Push that this be done within a certain length of time and if the ex fails to provide the child for any part of the evaluation, sanctions will be assessed against her. 

Dad's biggest hurdle in court: counteracting on ANY opposition the ex can put up about anything.  Which means you have to be prepared in advance for any roadblock she may come up with.  That's why I recommend the sanctions regarding a child eval.  Do the same thing for ANY complaint she makes, counter every (or as many as possible) argument she has.

You said in your first post that you will not be threatened by the ex or her mental games.  Unfortunately, it will take more money and time to put a stop to it, or at least slow it down.

[Gestalt]

wonder if the officers for this last exchange had their dash cam on?

[MixedBag]

I agree with Kitty -----  if you  know his name, you can get him to testify.

sounds like she's not leaving dad many choices.

[Pyle Sgt]

Thanks for the answers and ideas. We have to go pick the little girl up a week from this Friday again, and hope and pray it goes smooth, not going to hold my breath on it though. We are going to take along the video recorder and get the police officer's name and badge number. My daughter talked to this crazy woman the other day via phone, seems she left some crazy messages on her cell phone threatening to kill her if she did not keep her nose out of the crazy lady's affairs. My daughter seemed to be very concerned and they filed a police report with our local police again.

It seems that the son in laws exwife has lost control of the situation and is making all kinds of threats to all the family members when she can't get her way. My daughter and the son in law are trying to line up a attorney right now and see what we can do to get this back to normal, they don't have allot of money, and most Lawyers won't even talk to them unless they throw down a bunch of cash in front of them. The last lawyer cost them close to $9000 with nothing really accomplished, just a big bill.

We are planning, all of us that is to call DCFS after the next visit. The 4 year old child does seem to have some mental problems that are boiling to the top. The child throws these violent fits when she can't have her way and curses terrible! It is scary to watch this to! We all try and handle it, with making her do a time out or no TV, this does not seem to work well, but its something. She is good 80% of the time, but the 20% worries us. The mother blames everyone but herself for the problems, and refuses any treatment for the child at this point.

I will keep this forum informed of whats going on and any changes in the situation, thanks to everyone.

[Gestalt]

My ex husband new wife (girlfriend at the time) was actually convicted of harassment and threats against me for leaving threatening messages for me. It was good to contact the police about it.

[Pyle Sgt]

Well nothing has changed, we have gone 2 more times to pick up my son inlaws daughter with the same thing happening every time. We did contact several lawyers and  they all want $4000 to $10,000 up front for retainer fees. I can't believe they have to have that much money up front just to get it started.

My son in laws ex, has come up with something new also. She won't give him the childs SS# to him so she can put his daughter on his health insurance plan. We are figuring this is do to the tax deduction they are suppose to alternate every other year, his daughter is 4 now and he has never had his chance to claim her once, so this makes sense why she will not give it to him.

The next issue is she wants money for some unpaid medical bills, but will not produce the bills to my son in law. But wants money up front.

The other one is she wants him to pay half of the day care, which he is suppose to, but she cannot produce the bills or cancelled checks from the day care privider, so she wants $2500 given to her NOW!

She has taken both of these claims to court and had his visatation rights suspended, The courts never notified him of the court date or the suspended visatation. He found out by calling the court house and hearing it from the clerk that the ruling was made 2 weeks ago.

Just off hand is it legal to take away the fathers rights for visits based on his ex's claims? I can see taking his tax return or garnishing his wages.

Don't the courts have to notify you or a lawyer of a up coming court case?

We do have video footage, and voice recordings of his ex's violent nature from the last 2 pickups, cops were there again, but did nothing but informed us that it was best we just walk away.

My son inlaw has not see his daughter for quite sometime now, and it is taking a toll, he does have some money saved up to get another lawyer $2000 or so, but he is going to have to make some sort of payment for some of it. What a mess, and the courts will do nothing!