verbal visitation agreement compromised

[asof2005]

My husband and his boys' BM have had a verbal visitation agreement for 4 years straight, and while they were seperated on and off  3 years before that.  It has is as follows.  Dad picks up boys between 10am and 2pm every saturday and drops boys off at about 7:30pm every Tuesday.  This has gone on without much of a hitch the entire time.  (she has called the cops twice when she was pregnant, but the cops always let the children leave with their father.)

Now she is married and has a new attitude.  She just lost in court against my husband over her trying to switch them schools for the 7th time for the 5th grader.  The court ordered the children to stay in their current school district (which is the one she put them in one year ago, about a week before she met her new husband, now she wants them where she is living for the moment).  Anyway, she got mad and wouldnt let them go with him the following Saturday.  The cops couldnt let the children go with us because they have no court document because they have always followed the verbal agreement.    So we left and she eventually dropped them off later on Saturday. 

My husband wrote up an paper for her to sign with their normal agreement.  She refused and left.  (the cops cant make them go with her from our house for the same reason they couldnt go with us)   THen she told us that they are going to file a contempt of court against my husband tomorrow.  The only problem i believe with that is that they have no paper work court papers or other that have their visitation written down.  So there fore, in my mind, he is in no violation of any court document.  Also,  the only paperwork that they have that has to do with visitation, is his order for child support which states they both have physical and legal custody and he has them for 183 nights a year and she has 182 nights.  So technically, their verbal agreement she has been getting more time.

So anyway, I am wondering if she can really get him arrested when there is no visitation paperwork?

[ocean]

No, she cant have him arrested... She will have to file for modification of visitation to specify times, dates. Look here and get some ideas ...remember school holidays, birthdays, holidays...put exact times, dates for summer visits.

He can file for a modification and request that the 182 nights be specified as the mother refused visitation on xx date...and the order can not be enforced due to not being specific. It would be in the best interest of the child to follow a regular routine which has been XXXX for the past XX years. (Then figure how many nights that is and add in extra during the summer...father will get xx weeks in the summer- July 1-15, to bring his nights to 182.

Good luck...

[asof2005]

we didnt think so.  tomorrow he is going town to get all of their court papers since they have been involved with the courts, then request mediation.  if she doesnt agree to what they have always been doing, he is going to request that the 183 overnights be enforced (since that is the only thing they have in writing.)

thank you.

[Giggles]

The CS Agreement states that he gets 183 days...that's it?  A court cannot enforce that because it's not specific.

Your best bet is to do mediation and get a HIGHLY SPECIFIC court order in place.  That is the only way to reallly get a court order enforced.  If she won't do mediation, then take it to court to get the "verbal" agreement as a court order based on "Status Quo".

Good luck!

[asof2005]

the way he wants to try to enforce the 183 days is to have their regular verbal agreement, and then add them staying overnight on tuesdays to make it even.  so it would be Sat-Tues and then every other week Sat-Wed, we think that then it will be completely equal with over nights. 

by the way, we have always let them stay later or spend an extra night at mom's if there was something special going on, or they asked. 

[MomofTwo]

You need to be careful...a child support order which mentions parenting time has nothing to do with a custody order.  It is not binding for custodial time sharing arrangements.

[asof2005]

You need to be careful...a child support order which mentions parenting time has nothing to do with a custody order.  It is not binding for custodial time sharing arrangements.

yes but since there is no parenting time agreement and believe it or not they both have physical custody and legal custody, we believe that we could use that as a framework to work out the agreement.

[MomofTwo]

In that case, if it says shared physical and legal, yea, you should be good to go and use that as a basis. Good luck.

[asof2005]

thank you

[mastracci]

I may have missed something, were they married and now divorce? Or, never marrie? If they got divorced there should definately be an orer that covers custody and parenting time. the 182-183 calculation is for child support calculations and really does little if anything to resolve "Time sharing" issues. Before there can be a modification of custody there needs to be an order in effect to modify. If there is not youshould file for sole legal and sole physical if that is what you thingk is best for the kids. You might also want to send her a copy of Stop Fighting Over The Kids: Resolving Day-to-Day Custody Conflict in Divorce Situations. Best of luck, Mike