Old papers vs new papers, what's right?

[tigger]

I know it's hard but I would encourage you not to give up.  Your son is about to hit his teen years and he's really going to need you more than ever.  File contempt charges and ask for specific times and for her not to be allowed to interfere and with consequences if she does.  (Mixed Bag or Ocean would have suggestions as to what the consequences would be.  I've it from one of them but can't remember which one or what they are.)

[MixedBag]

Make up time is the consequence.

Dad, you did the right thing.

Another suggestion is that "you not be home" when you know there's gonna be a disagreement about where your son is supposed to be so that total confrontations are avoiced.

When the kids are smaller, and I mean physically smaller, then I could see Mom's defense in court being "but he let them come back early" -- but as they get bigger and older, you can't physically stop them from leaving as you learned.

But you can stop mom from showing up EARLY to entice them to leave -- and you can ask the court for make up time -- and maybe a the same time get a clarification of the order by adding details.

And if I read your current order right -- your son should be with you the first four weeks of the summer -- odd year -- right? 

[SuperDad52]

yes that is true, I do get the first 4 weeks of summer however, BM has already told me I'm only getting him for 2 weeks because that is what the old order says.  So, unless we make it back to court before then I guess that is what I'll get.
And I learned something yesterday.  From what I saw mom can come and get my son anytime she wants, say Saturday morning on her way to Disney World on my weekend as long as she has a cop and my son says he wants to go to whatever she has planed.
I have never had to force my son to come over but anything longer than my weekend he always wants to go home because what BM has promised him, all the fun things.  Unfortunately, I'm in the extremely small percentage of people that have to WORK for a living (sarcasm), so sometimes when he is here I'll be at work. And she can buy him away from me because she don't work.  Side note this is kinda funny, I asked my son "so is your mom still working at the apt complex (she got a job there while we were going through court and she quit work as soon as court was over) and he said no she quit she said what's the point in working.  I just casually asked as we were driving past the office.
So, I slept on it and I came up with two options
1. Send her (and maybe her new hub) a text telling them that they win.  I can no longer fight, I'm done emotionally and financially. So, if my son wants to come over to my house for my so call visitation schedule then he's welcome but if he doesn't then he don't have to.
OR
2. Borrow the money (again) charge her with contempt and watch as the judge does nothing


What about this also, last year while we were going through the whole "relocation battle" I also threw in there that I'd filed contempt twice.  One for her not letting my son come over for my scheduled weekend and the other for her taking my son (almost like yesterday) after 4 days of my 2 week summer visitation and nothing was ever resolved with those two cases at the end of the day only the "Relocation".
Think it's possible to bring those two cases up again and see if the judge entertains any thoughts w/them when I file contempt for yesterdays spring break shurade? <---I spelled that word so bad even spell check don't even know what I'm trying to spell.


any thoughts?
extremely frustratedad52

[WALLY]

Ok, this is how it all worked out.  Ex and I went to court long drawn out process but now its over.  She got what she wanted and the judge allowed her to move from FL to N.Y.  However, she decided that she isn't going to move until after summer. The final hearing was in Jan., I received papers in the mail stating the new visitation schedule dated Feb 25th.  It also states
5. "Except as otherwise specifically set forth herein, all prior orders and judgments of the Court shall remain in full force and effect.
6."The Court reserves jurisdiction over the parties and subject matter of this proceeding for purposes of enforcement and modification.
    Then it is dated and stamped with GM's name.

The visitation schedule states that I get my son for spring break on odd number of years and she does for even number of years.  Also, my summer visitation is the first 4 weeks of the summer.  Our old order states that I don't have any spring break visitation and I have 2 weeks during the summer.

Now, with all that said.  Ex told me today that I'm not getting my son for spring break and I'm only getting him for 2 weeks during the summer because she said that we don't have to abide by the new order until she "MOVES" and if she never moves then we'll always go by the old order and my "Limited" visitation will remain in effect.  Does this sound right?

Thanks!!

[Kitty C.]

Let me ask you this:  if your son were to come to you for your CO'd summer time, do you have anything planned?  If so, then as long as you're not home, she can't take him!  Another alternative..........do you have relatives in the area?  If so (and you have to work while he is with you), spend that 4 weeks with a relative.  What I'm getting at is come up with some plan so that there is NO way she can try to get him early, no matter how badly she wants to.  I don't even know if it's possible, but considering the 'scene' she just created, is it possible to request exchanges take place in a neutral location (like Micky D's or a park)?  If so, then you have every right to have her charged with trespassing if she does show up on your property............unless she's stupid enough to stand on the street and make a scene.

Think about this:  as badly as you are huring right now (and I certainly understand why), giving up on your son is NOT the answer.  Because I can tell you exactly what will happen...........she will tell your son that you're given up on him, you don't care about him, and you don't want him anymore.  And she will continue to beat that into his brain until he has SO much anger and animosity towards you that hopes of rekindling a relationship once he becomes an adult would be very slim indeed.

If you feel that you're on the edge, get help to stabilize and ground yourself.  Your son NEEDS you to fight for him, though he may not be able to voice that right now.  There's also another scenario that eventually could play out.....BM continues to lavish DS with anything and everything he wants, but as he gets older, he will 'play' her for it, using her generosity against her by asking for more and more, because she is setting NO boundaries for him.  Unless she is incredibly loaded or has access to unlimited funds, eventually there will come a time where she will say no....maybe for that Ferrari that he wants for his 16th birthday?  And when he realizes that she won't give in to him (and subconsciously realizes that she's used him all along), he will become VERY angry and hurt.  She either can't or won't want to deal with him, hand him over to you, tell you that it's all YOUR fault because you bailed on him (regardless of her part in it), and leave you to clean up the mess.  This scenario may sound far-fetched..........but it is also very possible, given what has happened so far.  The writing is already on the wall......

On a MUCH smaller scale, my SS's BM did the same thing to him (some form of PAS, that is what your DS's BM is doing to him) when SS was younger.  He is now 17, will be 18 in Feb., graduates in May 2012.........and is just chomping at the bit to get the hell out of her house.  He knows now that all her tactics were just a ploy to keep him from DH and he is certainly angry at her about it.  Luckily we've managed to keep him on an even keel, but not without some bumps along the way.  And it's only because BM has toned down her antics since her second divorce...suddenly we weren't so bad, since she NEEDED us because she couldn't rely on a husband anymore.  And I saw this coming from a LONG way off....when SS was only 4-5.

[tigger]

Kitty's right.  In my case it was the SM who was manipulative and convinced my then 16yo that I didn't love him because I was at my brother's babysitting my nephews when he got home from church after his weekend with his dad instead of waiting at the door with a plate full of food.  This had been building because I had set limits and I knew even if I couldn't prove it when he was up to something.  Next thing I know, he's angry and bitter and moved out of my house and into his dad's because I was just too strict and mean.  Mean, really?  Because I wouldn't let him watch sex filled rated R movies with no plot and no substance?  The only purpose of those movies was to see how much sex they could get into them and still have a R rating instead of a NC17.  Because I required him to call me when he left point A and arrived at point B and to call me when plans change.  The same rules I have for my now almost 17yo YS who has no problems with the rules at all.  At his dad's house he had no curfew, came and went as he pleased and did what he wanted when he wanted . . . until he turned 19.  All of a sudden his dad became concerned.  Perhaps he should have been concerned when his 16 yo started drinking and partying because there were no rules and not enough contact with him to know something was up.  I didn't even live with him and I knew he was partying and going to church only for appearance sake.  However, I never walked away from him.  I didn't chase him but I didn't throw him away either.  Ocean and a few others can attest to the walk I've made over the past almost 6 years.  I couldn't fight for him because of his age but I was always there for him . ..  not to bail him out but to help him navigate whatever mess he got himself into.  When he was in a bind, I loaned, not gave money.  Taught him how to budget and reconcile his account.  He went three years without speaking to me if he could help it.  He played nice in front of people at church but spewed venom when we were alone.  He ran out of gas the other day and called me because he knew I'd be there for him.  Technically, his dad was closer to him (by a 1/2 mile) but he knew I'd come without lecture (who hasn't done something like that?).  He loves his dad but knows that the SM twisted everything and led him down a road he didn't need to take (no, she's not to blame for his decision to drink but I'm betting if he had tried to drink in my house or if there hadn't been a financial incentive to keep him happy at his dad's the drinking would have been nipped in the bud).  One thing that he'll tell people today was that I never walked away from him.  No matter what.  That doesn't mean I didn't call him out on the carpet for his behavior or his attitude but again, I helped him navigate the waters and didn't just pluck him from waters or allow him to take me down with him or merely left him to drown.  Even his stepbrother who is being manipulated to abandon a relationship with his dad knows that his dad is always there for him.  When he got lost in the area where his mom grew up, it was his dad that he called for directions and guidance back to familiar territory. 

I know you're frustrated and hurt and angry.  All natural feelings.  Your child needs you.  He needs to know that even while his mom was playing games and distorting the truth, his dad was steadfast and always there.  When he's older he'll recognize the truth of his childhood and your relationship will be stronger.

[MixedBag]

What they all said...

Get yourself a copy of Divorce Poison,.....yesterday.  Go find it on Ebay or Amazon.com.  Seriously.

Read it front to back, and then back to front.

Highlight it, make notes and learn.

Do not give up on your son.

I used to tell my son that if HE didn't stand up for his rights to spend time with me, his MOM, then somebody has to do it, and that would have to be ME.

File a "Motion for Clarification" and include a request that Mom not arrive at your home until specifically allowed to via the court order and explain that even with the recent court order, there have been arguments over when the child is to be with is father, when the child is to be with his mother, and that the Mother shows up at your home earlier than your interpretation of the order and entices the child to leave early.

You might not need an attorney for all that -- saving you dollars -- because you're not trying to say either one of you is right in your interpretation -- you're asking for clarification to eliminate/reduce arguments that are already happening so soon after the order.

Do not, do not give up on your son.

[ocean]

I agree...file motion for clarification yourself in court. (and write that mother came over before parenting time was over with police to ask son to come home-interfering with father's parenting plan). Ask for exchanges at a police station or is possible pick up from school and mother not be permitted to pick up child on fathers days. You can maybe even get a restraining order on her that she drop/pick up from curb only.

Also, be a little firm with your son that this is dad's time, you know he loves his mom and mom may try to get you early but the judge said this is your time since he is with mom a lot more. Tell him to stay in house. Make rules about phone. UNPLUG or turn off ringer when he is there. If she hands him a cell phone, shuts off and kept in kitchen.

Do you think son needs counseling? You can ask the courts to order this too in your motion.

If she gives you son for summer, then you keep him the 4 weeks. Police officer can come into house to see if he is okay but that is it, but if you have a restraining order in place (you have enough from this incident I would think to go now and fill out family court restraining order) to not allow mother on your property, to call you, and email will be the only communication between parties. Then address how exchanges will go.

You can not give up rights unless the step dad will adopt him and then no more child support, so probably will not happen.
The courts do not allow you to give up your rights...you can not pick him up but that this allowing HER to win and not your SON to win.