Tired of fighting, when do you throw in towel....long

[1-daddy]

How do they grow up to know any better when they have no repercussions?

I'm at a loss, my sit is very similar.  We have been taken to court by BM many times. BM always comes out with less, she was CP and then DH was awarded CP we couldn't afford the fight anymore so we settled on 50/50. She was still offered CS but it wasn't enough so went back to court and now she gets nothing. So she took us back to court less than a year later for full and the judge ordered a new trial aftyr reading the old evaluation and said one would walk away with supervised after this, looking at her, she dropped her case unitl next time...
 
BM was diagnosed with BPD, Anti Social PD, severly sociopathic and extremely deceptive in fact it was said she scored off the charts on the testing, "higher than a criminal"  We have had numerous false reports filed against us. Some members of my husbands family have nothing more to do with us. Most recently, the children have lied that I verbally assaulted them in a park.  They went into detail of this to police, GAL and ACS.  They said they hate me, I am mean and they never want to see myself or their father again.  They were kept from us on these allegations from 6 weeks. They came back like nothing ever happened.
They told these same people our son (18mo at the time)is not their brother and they are afraid of him because he bit them.

Last year, SD said she was molested, by a relative who is physically incapable.  She said this to a detective, a counselor and ACS and was able at 8yo to be extrmeely graphic, noone believed her story but this makes me sick.  When we called SD counselor for an emergency appointment the counselor stated she was not at all tramatized. SD's response "mommy will believe me no matter what I say"

A few months ago, BM asked for a new insurance card, we told her she was not entitled to it and we would fax it to the doctors if need be (She used the old one as ID to secure a $5000 loan under DH's name). Exactly 2 days later it was missing out of DH's wallet that SD had access too.

When SD was getting ready to go to BM I found most of our sons wet bath toys wrapped around her clothes she stole to give to her little sister at BM's, when we confronted her, BM said how dare we turn our backs on her when she made a small mistake.  I also was mad at them forgetting their father's day gifts for the 3rd year in a row. Almost immediately after this BM filed an ACS report against us and went to court to get our visitation suspended pending the completion of the investigation.

BM is a criminal, she has purgered herself more times than I can count.  She has filed false reports and even had DH arrested 2x.  Her 2nd husband is sitting in a Rikers awaiting trial and served 6 months last year.  She is living with a 3rd guy and they have only been divorced since 2002.

My fear is these kids will grow up to be sociopathic, Anti-social criminals themselves and I have a son I need to worry about. I worry about my marriage and my own sanity.
How many false allegations, lies, stealing are we to put up with. And who and what next? Yes, they act happy here but SD especially is constantly spying and then telling these terrible stories.  She can be very cold and very manipulative.

We have spent nearly $200,000 in court fees and 10s of thousands more in lost wages. When is enough, enough.  We had them in therapy and they would lie to the therapist.  The therapist refused to make any determination in either direction, just stating there are a number of reasons they may have lied.  We were on a few waiting list for another but that is more time, more money and more defending ourselves.

I want to know when enough is enough before i lose it all......

[Renee]

It does come back to haunt them.  At least it did in our case.  We didn't see my SS for a year because she had turned him against us.  Then, one day out of the blue he called and asked to spend the weekend with us.  We reached out to him prior to that of course....Birthday and Christmas gifts, emails, and phone calls if he would talk.  He had never been close with his mom and then suddenly when he was a tool to hurt us she gave him what he wanted when he wanted it and badmouthed us to no end.  He finally saw through it and was tired of the horrible homelife he had with his BM and her new husband that he came back.  He started questioning everything that she said.  He told us he wishes he could carry a law book with him and look up what she says so that he would know if certain things were true.  The most important thing is that we have NEVER bad mouthed her to any of the kids.  It is completely unacceptable.  Kids don't need to know adult things and they love to have some stability and escape a negative atmosphere in at least one home.  

We missed alot of time with him but we can't change that so we just enjoy the time with him now.  Also, it is still important that no matter how you feel about the ex to not let the kids know.  We even correct my SS when he badmouths her so that we are not setting a bad example or acting like we approve when he disrespects his mom (if you can even call her a mom).  However, we are also going through that with one of my twin SD's and BM is working on the other.  Instead of being mom she is their friend.  She allows nose piercings, buys thongs, padded bras etc.  Keep in mind they are only 12 years old.  God forbid if one or both end up pregnant in the next couple of years that will somehow be OUR fault.  

Anyway, bottom line don't stoop to her level so that no matter what  happens you can hold your head up in the end and someday your SS will realize exactly what the truth is and who her BM really is.  Then it is our job as the loving, do anything for your child parents to be there and pick up the pieces.  

I will keep you in my prayers.  God Bless.

[Sherry1]

us, told the kids hateful things about us, and convinced them that I was the daughter of Satan, everything backfired.  But it took them until they were teens/young adults.  Oldest stepdaughter has an extremely estranged relationship with her mother, and my youngest stepson actually lives with us now.  I am a firm believer that what goes around comes around, and she got hers!

[1-daddy]

I, too am a very strong believer in karma.  I just can't seem to wait.  I want to go to the DA and beg and plead to prosecute.  I am awaiting the official reports for ACS and they are taking forever.  I dont want to be a victim for the rest of my life either.

I/We confronted the kids this eve on the latest allegations. It turned out way worse then I thought and then they spoke with their mother and i asked them to tell her what they lied about and they wouldn't.  They eventually apologized but I didn''t want that.  I got angry and just wanted them to realize that lieing can hurt, that it is illegal to file false reports and people go to jail eventually (hopefully) for doing so.  To be very careful what they wish for because the next time they say they never want to see us again it might come true.  Oops, am I terrible...

[FatherTime]

> Is it that harmful for them to
>know the flat-out truth?


Not harmful as long as the truth you tell is that you love them.  That's the most important truth you can tell.  I was relieved to hear that you are not giving up.  

I say .... never give up.

[dancurry]

Let me give you some friendly advice. When my daughter was 14 she told me she hated my guts because I didn't give her mother enough money. Though I tried to continue our relationship the best I could, I found her non-responsive and steadily decreased my attempts to resurect my relationship with her. This lead to less and less likelihood and content with the current arraingments for both of us. We became accustom to not talking to each other. This was the worse mistake I've made. Though I know my daughter has absolutely no respect for me, she may never have any now that we've grown so far a part. It's been nearly 7 years and I've seen her once (at her graduation) and talked to her twice.

This is why, in my opinion, the towel should NEVER NEVER be tossed into the ring.

Dan Curry.

[cinb85]

He's had very little (maybe 8 times in her lifetime) contact with our DD (15 years old).  Last year, I sent him a letter asking that he start up some kind of visitation with our DD.  His girlfriend at the time wasn't too happy about it, so he just didn't even try.  He has since broken up with his girlfriend (last November) and I have continued to write him letters asking him to set up some kind of visitation with our DD.  I have also suggested that he call our DD once a week just to ask her how she is and hopefully break the ice with her.  For some strange reason, he just keeps ignoring me.  I even talked to his sister about 3 weeks ago and told her about my suggestion to him about calling DD.  His sister thought that it was a great idea and told me that she would have a talk with my ex.  Still nothing!  The longer he waits, the harder it's going to be!

I agree that you should never stop trying to keep in touch with your children!!!  Even if they don't talk to you, at least they know that you are making an attempt.  I think because my ex doesn't even try to contact our DD, she thinks that he doesn't love her and care about her.  It's very sad!!!

[backwardsbike]

I am so glad i read this today.  I am a NCM of two children DS-17 adn DD-14.  been going thri the mill for the last 8.5 years, been NC for 6 years.  My X is always taking em to court for something.

PAS is a huge issue in our case.  My DS just cannot stand up to his dad.  he admits this.  My DD is PAS'd thouroghly.

I Identify witht he poster who said the kids have anice thime when they visit adn then go home and tell all sorts of lies.  That happens to us all the time.  And you can count on an increase in lies adn litigation when the CP is angry about something.

My visits were suspended yesterday.  It came out of the blue.  I was to get the children at 6:30PM.  X called me at 5PM adn told he "I am holding an order suspendeing your visits until we have a hearing about your DH's drinking."  Oh really???  But he didn't need any proof.  Apprently he had our 17 year old son speak to his lawyer via telephone adn that was it.  Visits suspended.  My poor lawyer, whom I called at home, was as shocked as I was.

So we are up for another round.  But I do feel more adn more like giving in and giving up.  Reading your posts this AM, particually the gentleman who wrote that he grew up with PAS adn counlnd't understand why his dad didn't fight for him, really helped me to maintain or perhaps regain my focus.  Thank you all.

[dipper]

I had just read your post to Soc....I feel for you here at the holidays especially.  Seems your ex has timed this.  I too believe that kids learn to survive at times by lying to the parent that needs to hear hatred spewed at the other.  

Do you have a video camera?  I would also make sure during visits we went out around others so that if it came to it...you would have proof that the children were not miserable when with you.

I would definitely seriously consider what Soc said about requesting an emergency hearing if your ex's lawyer did not even seek out your lawyer before doing this.....

[mango]

I thank you for your post. It hits it on the nose. Sd is a weapon and othing more. I tend to think if we let go, BM will eventually wat us to take her. (who knows)
We jsut never wanted to risk it before.

We do the same at our hosue. We do not speak of BM, and try to inforce respect, if she were to speak poor of her BM. Which has not happened. She owrships her BM, and scared of her too. Someday that bubble WILL burst. As a teen she will bump heads with BM, and question things.

She has to know we are good people. She admits her mom constantly runs us down. She knows we do not. We never even talk about court stuff, as like you said, Kids don't need to worry about adult issues. But her mom discusses every single court detail with her. She even knows the terminolgy at age 12. Sad but true.

We will always be there for her. But we hope she will not return with a baby in tow, as the BM is loose with the rules as well. Gives her $20 bucks on the table on a friday night, and she is on her own with friends. Home alone, all summer for anything goes....Some parenting that is.