Mom took the child

[snowrose]

I use to be on this forum some years ago when my DH was first going for custody of his DD.  We did get custody and did our best to raise the child, though it was hard at times as she was still seeing her mother and mom's abusive BF. Mom and the BF were watched by CPS for more than 3 years. Mom is diagnosed bipolar but appears to have BPD. When the girl was a toddler mom was in psych wards for a year at a time while my DH raised the infant.  The girl went to a therapist for 3 years and she seemed to be straightening out, until she started spending more time with her mother.


The child is now 13. After the last abuse problem, where mom's BF was throwing plates at the dining room wall, we went through 1 year of visits without the BF, 1 year of visits in the community with the BF, and were just starting to go into regular visitation.  October 5th was to be the girl's first regular weekend visit with her mother - except the girl called on Saturday and told DH that she wanted to live with her mother.


Ironically, we had just signed a new ACCESS agreement with the mother on August 29th. It specifically says it's the Applicant Mother's Access agreement and then states that the girl can visit as she wishes - but that my DH and the mother must agree on the visits.


For some reason mom has it in her head that this agreement SAYS that the girl can live with whoever she wants. And she thinks that (Ontario Canada) law says that the girl can choose where she wants to live at age 13. (Um, no. It only says that at 13 the child can give her opinion to the court via affidavit.)


But mom is convinced the girl can choose and the 13 year old is insistent on believing her mother.


Unless we call the police for Parental Abduction, we cannot get the child back on our own. We are currently waiting to see the court to request a Police Assistance clause be added to the custody order.  (You have to have a Police Assistance clause in the custody order or the police will not get involved in a custody problem.) Court date is November 28th.  (Why do we always get stuck with court on US Thanksgiving? I'm American and would like to have my Thanksgiving.)


DH was able to see the child for a few minutes with mom watching from a distance. At that point all he could do was ask her "Why?" She wouldn't answer but he says she had this nasty smirk on her face - until he started crying.  This devastated him as we'd put so much heart into raising this girl after she was abused.


At first the girl asked about visitation with us but now that DH has refused to hand over her birth certificate (mom wants to use it to get gov't money - but mom doesn't have custody so that wouldn't work) now mom is telling her not to talk to DH.  So DH hasn't seen her in more than a month and can't even talk to her. She doesn't even answer his Facebook messages.


Honestly, the mother is a serious problem: she's a game player who has basically no morals. She feels she is above the rules and the law - as long as she can get away with it.


We're at a loss.  If we go through with the Police Assistance clause we know we'll have an angry teenager on our hands that will still be going to visit her mother constantly, and mother will continue with the parental alienation that DH has been a victim of for so long and encouraging the girl to ignore our rules here at home.

We're now beginning to lean toward letting the child go to make her mistakes, because there's no way we can create a happy home when there's a mother with mental health issues constantly back-biting and attacking us.

Oh, point of information: the new Access Order says that the terms of the agreement cannot be changed for a minimum of one year.  We had to do that as before this mom was agreeing to orders and then applying to change them before the ink was even dry - which is exactly what happened this time too, except she just took the child instead of trying to re-write the agreement.

The Access Order is part of the Custody Order, with just the access terms changed.  The custody portion says there is joint custody but that our home is the child's primary residence and that my DH has "full care and control of the child." 

So, I guess my question is: if we should decide not to take action with trying to get the child back, what happens with this Custody/Access Order?  Would the courts allow the mother to change the order before that year is up?

I know the mother thinks what she's done is above the custody order and the law right now but she's going to find that she can't get that gov't money for the child that she thinks she can - not unless she has a custody order that says she's the one that has custody of the child.

Hope this all makes sense.  It's a mess.

[ocean]

Mom lives in same school area? Is child going to school?
I am not familiar with Canada Law, here you would go for an emergency hearing and the judge would make a decision that day to have child returned, then you would have your reg hearing at end of month.

You would need first to make a decision on what you want to do, allow her to stay or get her back. If you want her back, see about an emergency ex-parte hearing. If not, then go to the Nov hearing and a new parenting plan will be made with your visitation schedule and giving mom custody (child support will be brought up to). The old parenting plan will be voided as she will be living with mom.

[snowrose]

Hi, Ocean.  Mom does not live in the same school area. She has been told that the child may continue to go to school in our area as we live here - BUT since we have custody the school goes by the law and as far as they are concerned my DH has custody.  Mom tried to change the child's address but DH brought a copy of the new order in the next day and the school complied with the order and kept our address.


Mom has told the child that she will drive her to and from school through next June, so she can graduate 8th grade with the rest of her class.  But honestly I don't see that happening, especially when it starts to snow.  Only thing is that at this point mom can't change where the child goes to school, as the schools must respect the custody order filed in court.



We talked to a Family Law attorney at the courthouse. He said to go for the Police Assistance clause. It's very hard to get a fast track here, so we just ended up with the Nov court date.  Emergency hearings seem to be impossible to get, unless the child is actually in imminent danger.


Did you note that the new order says that "no changes may be made to the current order for a minimum of one year"?  When the mother has tried to make changes right away before this, even without that in the order, the courts have made her wait a full 6 months.

[Kitty C.]

Yes, but there is extenuating circumstances here, since BM took the child and won't give her back.  Since that goes completely against the current custody and access orders, I think your atty. is right to go forward with the police assistance clause.  She changed the rules herself when she took the child, so any previous mention of waiting a year to file for a change flies right out the window.

[ocean]

How about you go to school before the end and sign her out of school and bring her home? At least for the night so you can talk...

[Mom1Step2]

We did basically what Ocean said years ago.
Mom hijacked kids from school. Dad let it go on for a week or so, then went in one day, changed the paperwork so Mom could not check out kids from school or check out from after care.
I left work early that day and picked up all the kids from aftercare just after school let out. Dad let Mom know that she would be unable to take the kids, but she went anyway with her mother. Aftercare said... sorry, they are already gone & you are not on the list. She was steaming mad, but guess what... we were not at home that evening.
Of course, all of this would be different for a middle schooler. They can just walk out the door & jump in a car. Another thing is she probably has a cell phone. Only way to avoid it would to be there each day just before school let out. But then you could have a fight on your hands.
Good luck.

[snowrose]

Of course, all of this would be different for a middle schooler. They can just walk out the door & jump in a car. Another thing is she probably has a cell phone. Only way to avoid it would to be there each day just before school let out. But then you could have a fight on your hands.

What would happen is that DD would be there with a cell phone, waiting for BM to pick her up.  And things would not go well if there was a confrontation, I'm sure of it.  DH may be the custodial parent (and the school knows that) but BM lives for drama - and she would take this to the hilt, I've no doubt of it.


DH and I are weighing our options, and the damage that's already been caused in his and DD's relationship. We're completely sure that DD would be coached to cause as much mayhem and damage as possible - and after all we've gone through with them year-in and year-out, I know that I'm just about ready to have a nervous breakdown.  Right now I can't handle any kinds of tension, not even an emotional movie or a change in routine.


Because of all we've been through, we are weighing letting DD go to make this mistake - which is one of the reasons I'm wondering what would happen with the 'no changes for a year' requirement.  But as Kitty C said, that probably went out the window when BM took the child.


Still, one thing I've learned around here - OMGosh do the courts move S L O W!

[ocean]

Sign her out at lunch time. Tell her that you want to take her out and eat and she can text her mother that she is with you. Is she defiant? Ask her to shut the phone OFF for the talk....shut yours off too after you text mom "I have xx, she will text you when we are finished talking". Then go to a public place and talk (police may show up at your door).
See what she really says away from mom, then if she really wants to be there, tell her you will try and make it work but that she would have to change schools after the court date as you will no longer have custody.

[snowrose]

Sign her out at lunch time. Tell her that you want to take her out and eat and she can text her mother that she is with you. Is she defiant?

She is most definitely defiant.  BM has been coaching her with BM's own brand of 'no rules on me' type of behavior. And since BM does not honor contracts nor pay her bills but instead just moves on to the next place and uses a new version of her name or new utility carrier, BM knows this gig really well.

Then go to a public place and talk (police may show up at your door).

The police will not become involved in a custody problem unless there is a Police Assistance clause, which was why we've been investigating getting one.

See what she really says away from mom, then if she really wants to be there, tell her you will try and make it work but that she would have to change schools after the court date as you will no longer have custody.

DD has said to us at various times in our own home that she wants to live with mom.  That hasn't been possible though as there have been safety issues with the abusive BF.  IF we were willing and ready to go through this entire fight all over again (knowing it would probably take almost a year), we know that we would eventually win custody of SD again.  There's so much CPS information and information on BM being historically unstable that the courts would have to give DD to us in order to protect DD and their own jobs  - but what does it matter when at the next chance DD would just walk off with BM yet again?


When someone is willing to ignore the law (any law) unless threatened with arrest they can pretty much do whatever they want.  And from what we've seen of BM's reactions to various scenarios the only thing that really would put the fear of Court in her would be for her to be arrested.


Of course, if we did have BM arrested then heaven save us from DD's wrath.


Beyond that, DH has been in and out of court every few months for something like the last 5 years!  With the exception of last year when we had one year of quiet.  But DH has been in court so much, with most court days being a full day, that I'm often amazed that his employer hasn't fired him!

[tigger]

I'd ask DD how she feels about the abusive BF.  Maybe mom has told her that he won't be there IF she comes to live with her.  If you let her go knowing about the BF, then you've put DD in danger willfully and that may come back to bite DH if something happens to her.  Not just bite him emotionally but legally as well.