update on discovery and status of case.

[John-J-Jay]

Dear Posters.

As many of you have read I'm a happy single dad raising my daughter who's 10. I've had custody of 8 yrs and her mother hasn't paid child support in 4 years and lives 800 miles apart. I filed a motion to order her to pay etc. She believes she shouldn't becuase it's embarassing to her to turn in any order to her employeer. In retaliation of my motion she filed a motion for contempt against me which failed and the court said I was following the court order and obeying it as agreed. She then was asking for discovery, asking for all checking acct stmts dating back 8 yrs, every check, deposit, withdraw slips, every phone record, credit report, every credit card stmt, I can go on and on. My atty objected to the discovery request and the associate judge ordered us to produce when she filed a motion to compel.  We then filed an appeal with the district judge and the district judge made a ruling last week that I didn't have to supply any of the documents that doesn't pertain to my child. which are all the above i have listed plus more as it's ridiculous

Our next step is to get a hearing re-set on child support. I've spent 7 months and thousands of $$$ treading this water and not having the real issue heard before the court but all her stall tatics are failing and I trust that soon hopefully the month of May we will have a hearing on the merits of the case (child support) and we can get this resolved.

I can't understand why society believes that ONLY men should pay child support and not the mothers as well. It's the responsibility of BOTH parents to financially support the children.

She has also again recently stated she will fight for custody. However, I don't see any problems except for the financial strain it will cost to defend. But hopefully the court system will snuff this issue out fast.

[mistoffolees]

>I can't understand why society believes that ONLY men should
>pay child support and not the mothers as well. It's the
>responsibility of BOTH parents to financially support the
>children.
>

As frustrating as it is, I would not assume that the above is the situation. Every court in the nation has undoubtedly seen cases where it is appropriate for the mother to pay support and I doubt if very many (if any) show that kind of blatant bias.

In reality, the court system is just slow and frustrating -for both sides. It is designed to give each party an essentially unlimited opportunity to be heard and that can lead to unnecessary delays. In my case, even though my stbx and I agreed on all the essential issues within a week of my filing for divorce, we're now 7 months later and still don't have an agreement. You'd be appalled if I told you how much money has already been spent.

It's frustrating and wasteful, but that's just the way the system works. It's not about sexism.

But congratulations on your progress.

[John-J-Jay]

I disagree with your post. it's all about sexism. The system leans heavily towards the mothers, If a dad is behind in child support pmts for 4 yrs they would file contempt charges, have them placed in Jail etc.

However if the mother does the courts leave them alone and let it drag on. etc.........

When a mother has a child the court system sees mothers as the golden egg. The court system immediately gives the mothers the benefit of doubt when it comes to custody, a DAD can't get custody of the children unless the mother basically gives them up.  This is a fact. More dads need to speak out and fight for the children. A dad/father is the foundation that will propel our children succeed.

In my case thank God i've had custody since my child was 2.  she gave up custody and moved away. My child is thriving under the care of a Dad.

[notnew]

Mist,

I am happy for you that you and your STBX were able to come to agreements on all issues at hand. The reasons why you don't have an agreement to date I suppose aren't pertinent at this point.

However, I have to point out to you that 7 months into the family court world makes you still green. It is all about sexism.

Courts by and large give maternal preference in custody decisions. Child support orders are put in place against non-custodial mothers, but enforcement is weak and those who push for it often find they are beating their heads against a brick wall.

There are many cases where a NC dad falls behind and job-hops, or state-hops to avoid payments and the enforcement process is a nightmare for those CP's as well. By and large though, my experience has been that when NC mothers are in court for CS issues, they are able to whine their way out of it altogether or get it down to a minimal amount and if behind, there often isn't any real consequence other than more time to pay.

It seems even though you've spent a small fortune and still don't have an agreement 7 months later, you don't have any frustration over the matter or feel that your STBX is being unreasonable in any way. Amazing to me.

I do hope that you don't witness the sexism that is rampant in our courts, but chances are you already are and just don't recognize it. I may be off base, but we are all entitled to our opinions based on our own experiences. I've seen and heard too much to support sexism in the courts to ever believe any different.

JMHO!

[mistoffolees]

I notice no evidence to back your claim that it's sexism.

In fact, you (the male) have won every court battle so far. If there were such rampant sexism, why didn't your ex win?

CLAIMING that there's sexism is easy. But your claims don't constitute proof.

[mistoffolees]

>Mist,
>
>I am happy for you that you and your STBX were able to come to
>agreements on all issues at hand. The reasons why you don't
>have an agreement to date I suppose aren't pertinent at this
>point.

Actually, they are. The court system is slow and frustrating - which is exaclty my point.

>
>However, I have to point out to you that 7 months into the
>family court world makes you still green. It is all about
>sexism.

A claim without evidence.

>
>Courts by and large give maternal preference in custody
>decisions. Child support orders are put in place against
>non-custodial mothers, but enforcement is weak and those who
>push for it often find they are beating their heads against a
>brick wall.

A claim without evidence. In many states, the judicial preference is for shared custody.

>
>There are many cases where a NC dad falls behind and job-hops,
>or state-hops to avoid payments and the enforcement process is
>a nightmare for those CP's as well. By and large though, my
>experience has been that when NC mothers are in court for CS
>issues, they are able to whine their way out of it altogether
>or get it down to a minimal amount and if behind, there often
>isn't any real consequence other than more time to pay.

A claim without evidence.

>
>It seems even though you've spent a small fortune and still
>don't have an agreement 7 months later, you don't have any
>frustration over the matter or feel that your STBX is being
>unreasonable in any way. Amazing to me.

Actually, no. My stbx has been extremely unreasonable - and managed to slow the process down. That was my point. You don't need to allege sexism to understand that one person can easily drag things to a halt.

>
>I do hope that you don't witness the sexism that is rampant in
>our courts, but chances are you already are and just don't
>recognize it. I may be off base, but we are all entitled to
>our opinions based on our own experiences. I've seen and heard
>too much to support sexism in the courts to ever believe any
>different.

Of course you're entitled to believe whatever you want. But the fact that you are convinced that it's real without any evidence (and that you state that you'll still believe it no matter what anyone tells you) says that you're making an emotional argument, not a factual one.

Note:
I'm not saying that sexism doesn't exist and never plays a role. I'm simply objecting to people blaming sexism every time they don't get what they want and when they want it. If you think sexism is everywhere, you'll see it everywhere, whether it's applicable or not. Unfortunately, that gets in the way of addressing whatever the real problem might be in that particular case.

[John-J-Jay]

Mist,

My ex hasn't won and will never win in this battle. I don't have to blow my own horn. The facts that I have established for the last 8 years speaks for itself in volume. Grades in school, healthy menatally and emtionally (even after her mother tries to brain wash her once a month). Her foundation is rock solid, based on what a DAD has estabilished. She has the life that she has because of her DAD. Great Home etc........  I can list a million things, however I don't have to prove that to anyone. What I have speaks for itself and the courts can never take that away but if i wasn't given the chance what would i have??

However, if her mother didn't give her up when she was 2 the courts would have automatically given my daughter to her mother which would have been sad. So the court system is all about SEXISM.

If I could say one word to the dads on this site, it would be to ~~fight for your rights to the fullest, contest custody if you can the child is as much yours as the mothers.  Don't back down from threats & the fact the courts do base opinions on gender. However, we as dads must continue to push forward and protect our rights as dads as well as our children.

[notnew]

>>Mist,
>>
>>I am happy for you that you and your STBX were able to come
>to
>>agreements on all issues at hand. The reasons why you don't
>>have an agreement to date I suppose aren't pertinent at this
>>point.
>
>Actually, they are. The court system is slow and frustrating -
>which is exaclty my point.

Yes, they are slow and frustrating. You are correct on this point. That's not a sexism thing. It's a broken system. Family law needs to be revamped. It cannot and should not be handled like criminal or civil law cases. But that is a pipe dream in my opinion.
>
>>
>>However, I have to point out to you that 7 months into the
>>family court world makes you still green. It is all about
>>sexism.
>
>A claim without evidence.

I've been in this for 7 years and seen a lot more decisions based on sexism then what is right or fair.
>
>>
>>Courts by and large give maternal preference in custody
>>decisions. Child support orders are put in place against
>>non-custodial mothers, but enforcement is weak and those who
>>push for it often find they are beating their heads against
>a
>>brick wall.
>
>A claim without evidence. In many states, the judicial
>preference is for shared custody.

The books SAY the judicial preference is for shared custody, but in practice this is not true. The numbers speak for themselves. There are a substantially higher number of custody cases awarded to mothers in divorce then shared or otherwise. I remember seeing the figures not too long ago. I wish I could remember where right now.
>
>>
>>There are many cases where a NC dad falls behind and
>job-hops,
>>or state-hops to avoid payments and the enforcement process
>is
>>a nightmare for those CP's as well. By and large though, my
>>experience has been that when NC mothers are in court for CS
>>issues, they are able to whine their way out of it
>altogether
>>or get it down to a minimal amount and if behind, there
>often
>>isn't any real consequence other than more time to pay.
>
>A claim without evidence.

Yes my opinion based on what I've seen and heard myself.
>
>>
>>It seems even though you've spent a small fortune and still
>>don't have an agreement 7 months later, you don't have any
>>frustration over the matter or feel that your STBX is being
>>unreasonable in any way. Amazing to me.
>
>Actually, no. My stbx has been extremely unreasonable - and
>managed to slow the process down. That was my point. You don't
>need to allege sexism to understand that one person can easily
>drag things to a halt.
>

And how do you think the court would be looking on your case if it were you creating this difficult situation? Differently? The same? You probably can't give me an example since you say you are ready to get it done so you aren't pulling any stunts to delay. Have you asked for any sanctions or consequences for these actions? If so, what were the results?
>>
>>I do hope that you don't witness the sexism that is rampant
>in
>>our courts, but chances are you already are and just don't
>>recognize it. I may be off base, but we are all entitled to
>>our opinions based on our own experiences. I've seen and
>heard
>>too much to support sexism in the courts to ever believe any
>>different.
>
>Of course you're entitled to believe whatever you want. But
>the fact that you are convinced that it's real without any
>evidence (and that you state that you'll still believe it no
>matter what anyone tells you) says that you're making an
>emotional argument, not a factual one.

I'm making an emotional agrument based on my own factual experiences.
>
>Note:
>I'm not saying that sexism doesn't exist and never plays a
>role. I'm simply objecting to people blaming sexism every time
>they don't get what they want and when they want it. If you
>think sexism is everywhere, you'll see it everywhere, whether
>it's applicable or not. Unfortunately, that gets in the way of
>addressing whatever the real problem might be in that
>particular case.
>
I have certainly never blamed sexism as a blanket reason in my posts on these boards. I certainly don't blame it for every decision not in my favor in my own personal case. However, I know that for many of the major points in my case, the decisions were based in sexism and THAT drove the direction of most everything else. I KNOW without a doubt that had I been in care and control of my child and allowed what my ex has allowed, that child would NOT be living with me anymore. Yet when a woman cries in court about how hard it is for her to be a single mom and do it all alone and go on about how she lost her job and has been looking real hard, yet fails to provide one shred of documentation to support her stance. Makes false allegations and the only "proof" she can provide is "expert counselor witness" testimony whom the child has been coached to lie to with promises of no rules, fake nails, doesn't have to go to school, new cell phone, etc. Get my drift? A lot of things I KNEW but were inadmissable in court.

Believe me, things can get very ugly and approximately 1/3 of these cases are hostile and that number is likely growing every day.

Yes, you have to look at the legal system, how it works, and learn to work through it the way it is set up and hope that you are able to prevail. You also have to realize when you've been beat and it's time to fold your cards.

Sometimes people are poor clients in court. Sometimes they are poor parents or ex-spouses. Sometimes they aren't.

And that is all I have to say about that.