Do I have enough?

[proudparent]

I was primary custodial parent for 8 years to my 12-year-old daughter.  Relations were good with liberal visitation for both households.  My ex filed for temporary custody.  In July, the judge decided, in chambers, that since he and I were both "good people", he would give dad temorary custody for 6 months.  There was no hearing.  There was no significant change of circumstance in my home.  There was nothing.  The judge just decided without a hearing.

Since then, I have learned and have proof that my child has an internet boyfriend and has published personal information on the internet.  When I brought this to the attention of my ex and offered to let him view the keystroke log file I had, he stated he has stop gap measures in place to prevent this activity, please his home is based on honesty and trust.  My daughter continues her on-line relationship.

In addition, 4 of the 6 weekend visitations I have had since the change of custody, he has interfered, or attempted to interfere.  He does this by coming to my house uninvited to drop off her phone or a book.  Or he will schedule events that he will be at and suggest he can take her if I can't.  He always offers it as a favor, but it always ends up with me losing visitation time or having an angry child.

He is now interfering with the school fall break that is supposed to be 50/50 and will not let me have her until his scheduled activities are complete.

Is this enough to reverse the temporary order?  I've been told something bad has to happen first or I have to prove him unfit.  Why?  I wasn't proven unfit.

What else can I do?  Thank you!

[mistoffolees]

>I was primary custodial parent for 8 years to my 12-year-old
>daughter.  Relations were good with liberal visitation for
>both households.  My ex filed for temporary custody.  In July,
>the judge decided, in chambers, that since he and I were both
>"good people", he would give dad temorary custody for 6
>months.  There was no hearing.  There was no significant
>change of circumstance in my home.  There was nothing.  The
>judge just decided without a hearing.

That seems rather strange. Did you have an attorney?

>
>Since then, I have learned and have proof that my child has an
>internet boyfriend and has published personal information on
>the internet.  When I brought this to the attention of my ex
>and offered to let him view the keystroke log file I had, he
>stated he has stop gap measures in place to prevent this
>activity, please his home is based on honesty and trust.  My
>daughter continues her on-line relationship.

Unfortunately, there's no law against having an internet boyfriend. Bad judgment perhaps, but I doubt if that's going to change anything. I guess if she were posting nude pictures of herself and you could prove that he knew about it and didn't do anything, you would have grounds, but short of that, it might be tough. It all comes down to what type of personal information she's posting.

>
>In addition, 4 of the 6 weekend visitations I have had since
>the change of custody, he has interfered, or attempted to
>interfere.  He does this by coming to my house uninvited to
>drop off her phone or a book.  Or he will schedule events that

Dropping by your house to drop of a child's belongings isn't going to be considered much of an interference with visitation. If you don't want it to happen, don't answer the door - or be somewhere else.

>he will be at and suggest he can take her if I can't.  He
>always offers it as a favor, but it always ends up with me
>losing visitation time or having an angry child.

Why? Simply say "no thanks, I'll take her". Or just don't go. He can't schedule events during your time unless you let him.

>
>He is now interfering with the school fall break that is
>supposed to be 50/50 and will not let me have her until his
>scheduled activities are complete.

That is a violation. How much time is involved? If it's a few hours, the court will probably ignore it. If it's a lot of time, you could probably file for contempt - but it might well make it look like you're the one causing trouble. I would send him a certified letter quoting the agreement stating that you expect the child to be ready at the court-ordered time or he will be in contempt. He might give in or he might not, but I don't think this is going to be a big enough issue to win custody over.

>
>Is this enough to reverse the temporary order?  I've been told
>something bad has to happen first or I have to prove him
>unfit.  Why?  I wasn't proven unfit.

AFAICT, you got a raw deal when the judge issued a temporary order changing custody - unless there were other circumstances that you haven't stated (such as the child expressing a strong desire to live with the father or something like that). Now that it's done, you have a new status quo - and you probably WILL have to prove that there's a problem. Nothing above seems to rise to that level.

>
>What else can I do?  Thank you!

Consult an attorney? But it's probably too late.

[MixedBag]

My EX (who reads and prints here, o.k.?) was primary residential for 11 years.

Son(14) wanted a change.

Court granted it.

EX and Camilla published their personal information on the web to include pictures of our son and there was nothing I could do to stop it.

Heck, if you click on the link in my signature block, you will see that I have an on-line business with information as to my home address.

So -- that's my take in the internet stuff.  For a long time, I too was against it, but in the end, I think I'm a stronger and better person to learn to deal with it.

Ladies Home Journal just recently wrote an article that advised parents to get in tune with their teens and the internet and that it's better to teach them than to ban them because they're gonna figure out how to get around your rules -- just like your daughter is doing.

Are they HIS scheduled activities -- or things your daughter is doing.  File contempt if he is really interfering.  Dropping something off that she forgot is not (Again, IMHO) gonna be considered interefering.

The unfit question -- really goes back to age of your child (again, IMHO).  

You know what I read -- a hurt parent who is scratching their head saying "what did I do?"  

I'm wearing the shoe on the other foot -- HOWEVER, I'm not interfering with our son's relationship with his dad.

What can you do?  Depends on the goal.

Goal should be focused on the child and doing your best given the cards you've been dealt to raise a healthy loving child that has a positive relationship with BOTH parents.

And that means YOU don't back down as her parent.

Yes, again, I know you are hurting.....but keep on loving her!

[proudparent]

Thanks for the responses!

My daughter is almost 13 and yes, she did state she wanted to live with him.  However, I was "told" there had to be a material change in circumstance at her age of 12.  I know it was odd how the court handled my case, but in my state, I've learned it's the norm.

My concern about the internet boyfriend is what I see as the severity of it and not knowing her boyfriend is 16 or 45.  They talk of hooking up.  There is a LOT of sexual innuendo and foul language.  Would the court really not see his lack of parental control for her safety as an issue?  She is now making PG videos of herself from her cell phone and sending them out.  I sincerely ask how this issue can not be taken seriously by the court with news stories everyday of on-line predators?  My judge did throw the book at an on-line predator caught in a police sting, so he is aware of internet dangers for kids.  I feel, if I let this continue until our January hearing, then I am telling the court that I am condoning this behavior.

I do handle his interference as suggested.  But I end up with an angry kid all of the time.  He has also kept her home from school for illness without telling me and says I have to go through him if I have any concerns for the school.

It seems, with a temporary order, he would want the court to see him on his best behavior.   I do have an attorney.  But this is a tough decision to go to court now or wait until January for the inevitable permanent change to him if the above-stated issues are actually non-issues.

[MixedBag]

not an attorney, o.k.

BUT different states, and different courts, and different judges will start considering the wishes of the child.  Heck, with EX#3's situation, the judge in his case listened to a 7 year old.  

I don't know if I would agree with mist that it's "odd" particularly since I just went through this myself but I'm on the receiving end, not on the end of needing to let go.

As for the boyfriend -- what I would do is some on-line digging or plain ole digging myself to figure out what's going on as best as you can.  If the exchanges of videos and stuff are too "on the edge", honestly, I'd take a copy to the juvenile detectives of your local police department.  Maybe they have more resources to get to the truth out there in cyberspace than we as parents do.

The rest -- well, pick and choose your battles.

Right now you're really hurting, I know, and it's hard to make the transition.  I've been in your shoes....where you are today and where you were yesterday.

Another good idea is to read the book Divorce Poison, and "Joint Custody with a Jerk".  Both give wonderful advice about what you're going through.

[proudparent]

I go to court next month and the following events have occurred:

1.  My 13 year old daughter STILL has the internet boyfriend and is posting on the website in question today.  My attorney sent a letter regarding the internet usage to his attorney a month ago asking for proof of his monitoring or take her off the internet.  We got a response stating he monitors.  Period.

2.  My ex placed our daughter on a daily ClaritinD regimen against doctors orders and without advising me since August.  I discovered it in October.

3.  My ex excluded me from school contact list and extracurricular activiites.

4.  My ex has told lies to our daughter about events that never occurred to create resentment against me.  He has also told her she does not have to talk to that stupid old woman, meaning her grandmother.

5.  My ex has convinced our daughter that my home is unsafe for her to be in since I could not protect her if someone broke in.

6.  My ex continues to interfere with my visitation period.  For example, he picked her up when I went to work for a few hours during the Thanksgiving break without my knowledge or prior approval.

7.  He insists he will be picking her up for her upcoming birthday even though it is my weekend and my year.

?????

Am I getting closer to a possible reversal of this insane TCO?

[Father of three]

Hi.  I'm brand new at this forum.  I have some extra time before I go clear the ice off my truck and go work in the cold all day.  I found your post interesting.  Not that I'm much help, I'll comment on your points, though.

1) I don't think he's required to provide any such proof without the court ordering it.  I am pretty liberal about my children's internet usage.  My ex does not agree with the freedom I allow the children.  I could go for an hour about that, but I'll suffice with this: my focus is on educating them.  Much in the same way I try to make my kids aware of dangers of predators if they go to the park, we are shopping, they are waiting for the school bus, etc.   It's impossible to monitor a child 24/7.  It is possible to educate them so that, armed with as much information as you can give them, the child can hopefully make the best decision.  Children need freedom, responsibility, and trust.  Our children are ultimately responsible for making their own choices, and dealing with the results of those choices. By allowing that, and making them aware of real life consequences, well....  Part of the point here is this whole issue is highly debatable, and not nessesarily something the judge may see as harmful.  You can demonstrate the "possible" harm of crossing the street much easier.  Do you let your child cross the street?

2) Do you have this in writing, that the doctor recommended she NOT take the Claritin.  My suggestion: If she has sinus/allergy issues, be prepared to document her issues, doctor's recommendations, the medical care she has received regarding these issues, and your childs response to the treatment.  What if your ex can document your daughter thinks the Claritin helps, and she feels better on it?

3) He excluded you, or did not include you.  Have you contacted the school and had this corrected?  Have you requested a schedule of events, in writing, from the school and/or your ex?  You have a records that can demonstrate he did not include you, and of any attempt made my you to correct it?  It's probably helpful to be able to be able to show, that if you found something wrong, or objectionable, your proactive approach to correcting the matter.

4) Be prepared to elaborate on the allegations.  How do you intend to demonstrate this was done with the intention to create resentment towards you?  I don't think there is a legal requirement your child communicate with grandparents.  However, I think it would reflect poorly on your ex if you can demonstrate an ongoing pattern of derogatory remarks to, or in front of, your child regarding family members.

5) Are you certain your ex is the source of this idea?  Will your ex, or his attorney, state this to the courts?  Will your daughter?  Can an independent source, such as a psychological evaluation, show your daughter thinks she is unsafe in your home, and the source of that idea is her father?

6)  Re: Your example:  Your daughter was home alone?  Is she allowed to leave at her own discretion, say, to go to a friends while you were gone?  Was she in the care of someone?  If so, did that person have the authority to approve of your daughter leaving?  If she was in the care of someone else, what instructions were the caretaker given?  It's apparent your child was there when you left for work.  Was your daughter there when you returned home?  If so, how do intend you intend to document a 'loss of time.'  Spending time with her father, if it was what your daughter wanted to do while you weren't there, may somehow constitute interference.  It may also constitute the fathers interest in actively participating in his daughter's life.  If the child was not left in the care of someone while you were at work,  the consideration of a phone call is nice.  Why would you not 'consent' to such time?

7) Your child is thirteen.   What does she want?  
Strictly personal here, but my birthday just passed.  It was shortly after a heated disagreement with my ex.  I did not see my children that day, hear from them, and the next time I saw them they were completely unaware my birthday had passed.  I even had to tell my son to go look at my I.D. to convince him.  He didn't believe me.  My children felt terrible.  Although it hurt my feelings, letting my children know it was okay was the priority, and I was just happy to see them right there and then, and that was gift enough.  With all due respect, your daughter's birthday, especially at age thirteen, is HER day, not 'yours.'  I would suggest talking to your daughter about coordinating plans for that day, then contact your ex, and finish that arrangement.

I'm doubting my reply will go on your list of today's greatest moments.  Again, with all due respect, your emphasis seems to be on control, and frustration with your ex.  How would your daughter reply to each of those points?  At age thirteen, unless you can demonstrate clear physical and/or emotional harm,  NOT possibilites, the emphasis may need to be on what your daughter wants, then why she should, or should not, be allowed her wants.  I'm not saying any of your points aren't valid concerns.  Maybe approach each of these points from the direction of, how is the best interest of your daughter served, how is she harmed, and the detrimental impact it's having on your relationship.  I'll reiterate, your relationship, NOT your feelings.   My opinion, of course.  Good luck and best wishes.

[proudparent]

>Hi.  I'm brand new at this forum.  I have some extra time
>before I go clear the ice off my truck and go work in the cold
>all day.  I found your post interesting.  Not that I'm much
>help, I'll comment on your points, though.
>
>1) I don't think he's required to provide any such proof
>without the court ordering it.  I am pretty liberal about my
>children's internet usage.  My ex does not agree with the
>freedom I allow the children.  I could go for an hour about
>that, but I'll suffice with this: my focus is on educating
>them.  Much in the same way I try to make my kids aware of
>dangers of predators if they go to the park, we are shopping,
>they are waiting for the school bus, etc.   It's impossible to
>monitor a child 24/7.  It is possible to educate them so that,
>armed with as much information as you can give them, the child
>can hopefully make the best decision.  Children need freedom,
>responsibility, and trust.  Our children are ultimately
>responsible for making their own choices, and dealing with the
>results of those choices. By allowing that, and making them
>aware of real life consequences, well....  Part of the point
>here is this whole issue is highly debatable, and not
>nessesarily something the judge may see as harmful.  You can
>demonstrate the "possible" harm of crossing the street much
>easier.  Do you let your child cross the street?

I agree totally with you about educating your kids and trusting them to make the right decisions, especially regarding the internet.  I think my situation is a little more serious, though.  She is not yet 13(will be on 12/23) and has an on-line boyfriend with graphic and sexual chat and personal exchanging of info with plans to hook up.  I have the proof.  She also has a camera phone and has made videos of herself (head shots) and, apparently, sent them to this guy.  I have these too.  I would not let her date in real life, how can it be okay on the internet?

Her father is either not monitoring her or is allowing it to continue.  To me, that is a potentially dangerous situation.  We see these stories in the news every day with bad endings.
>
>2) Do you have this in writing, that the doctor recommended
>she NOT take the Claritin.  My suggestion: If she has
>sinus/allergy issues, be prepared to document her issues,
>doctor's recommendations, the medical care she has received
>regarding these issues, and your childs response to the
>treatment.  What if your ex can document your daughter thinks
>the Claritin helps, and she feels better on it?

I have it in writing from the ex that he acknowledges her pediatrician since birth advised against it.  He took her to an associate doctor of his and claimed she said it was okay.  However, if it was okay, why did he hide it from me and not advise me to give it to her during my visitation?  Why did he have to go get a separate prescription for Allegra (or something like that) so that he could buy the required amount of ClaritinD to give to her?  Wouldn't the doctor have written my daughter a prescription or something for the pharmacist?  My attorney states it's not a matter of who is right or wrong about the ClaritinD, it's about excluding me from the decision and not informing me.  ???
>
>3) He excluded you, or did not include you.  Have you
>contacted the school and had this corrected?  Have you
>requested a schedule of events, in writing, from the school
>and/or your ex?  You have a records that can demonstrate he
>did not include you, and of any attempt made my you to correct
>it?  It's probably helpful to be able to be able to show, that
>if you found something wrong, or objectionable, your proactive
>approach to correcting the matter.

Yes, I contacted the school and began to receive mailings from the school.  Prior to that, I only got progress reports, announcements, etc. from him.  He stated, in writing,  it was an oversight.
>
>4) Be prepared to elaborate on the allegations.  How do you
>intend to demonstrate this was done with the intention to
>create resentment towards you?  I don't think there is a legal
>requirement your child communicate with grandparents.
>However, I think it would reflect poorly on your ex if you can
>demonstrate an ongoing pattern of derogatory remarks to, or in
>front of, your child regarding family members.

I have only the fact of what my child told me.  The stories he has told cannot be interpreted any other way than I describe.  My mother lives with me so it's kind of difficult for my child to avoid her grandmother.  I do have, in writing, that he uninvited grandma to GrandParent's Day at the school.
>
>5) Are you certain your ex is the source of this idea?  Will
>your ex, or his attorney, state this to the courts?  Will your
>daughter?  Can an independent source, such as a psychological
>evaluation, show your daughter thinks she is unsafe in your
>home, and the source of that idea is her father?
>
Again, I have only what my daughter has told me.  My attorney has requested a psychological eval, GAL, mediation, the whole nine yards.  This judge is not interested.

>6)  Re: Your example:  Your daughter was home alone?  Is she
>allowed to leave at her own discretion, say, to go to a
>friends while you were gone?  Was she in the care of someone?
>If so, did that person have the authority to approve of your
>daughter leaving?  If she was in the care of someone else,
>what instructions were the caretaker given?  It's apparent
>your child was there when you left for work.  Was your
>daughter there when you returned home?  If so, how do intend
>you intend to document a 'loss of time.'  Spending time with
>her father, if it was what your daughter wanted to do while
>you weren't there, may somehow constitute interference.  It
>may also constitute the fathers interest in actively
>participating in his daughter's life.  If the child was not
>left in the care of someone while you were at work,  the
>consideration of a phone call is nice.  Why would you not
>'consent' to such time?

My daughter was not home alone.  Her grandmother was here.  Of course, grandma does not trump dad.  She was home when I got home because I called him and told her to bring her back.  I was not given a choice to consent to such time or not--he just came and got her.  I object because it is an hour's drive between our homes.  He had ample opportunity to notify me of his intentions.  I object because of the constant brainwashing he is doing, such as seen in the above examples.  He wants to keep her out of my home as much as possible to disrupt any emotional attachments to my home.  In my opinion.
>
>7) Your child is thirteen.   What does she want?  
>Strictly personal here, but my birthday just passed.  It was
>shortly after a heated disagreement with my ex.  I did not see
>my children that day, hear from them, and the next time I saw
>them they were completely unaware my birthday had passed.  I
>even had to tell my son to go look at my I.D. to convince him.
> He didn't believe me.  My children felt terrible.  Although
>it hurt my feelings, letting my children know it was okay was
>the priority, and I was just happy to see them right there and
>then, and that was gift enough.  With all due respect, your
>daughter's birthday, especially at age thirteen, is HER day,
>not 'yours.'  I would suggest talking to your daughter about
>coordinating plans for that day, then contact your ex, and
>finish that arrangement.
>
I am sorry about your birthday.   I also know it is HER day and I have told her she can do what she wants.  The fight is just too much for me.  He has told our daughter that it is his legal right to have her on her birthday.  So I have the choice of proving to her he is not telling the truth or letting it go.  Lose/lose situation.  I'll let it go before putting her in the middle.

And I have tried to coordinate with the ex for that day.  He'll not have anything to do with coordination.

>I'm doubting my reply will go on your list of today's greatest
>moments.  Again, with all due respect, your emphasis seems to
>be on control, and frustration with your ex.  How would your
>daughter reply to each of those points?  At age thirteen,
>unless you can demonstrate clear physical and/or emotional
>harm,  NOT possibilites, the emphasis may need to be on what
>your daughter wants, then why she should, or should not, be
>allowed her wants.  I'm not saying any of your points aren't
>valid concerns.  Maybe approach each of these points from the
>direction of, how is the best interest of your daughter
>served, how is she harmed, and the detrimental impact it's
>having on your relationship.  I'll reiterate, your
>relationship, NOT your feelings.   My opinion, of course.
>Good luck and best wishes.

You're right, your reply isn't one of today's greatest moments.  But I really appreciate your honesty and tactfulness.  My daughter, of course, wants to live with her dad.  What 13-year-old wouldn't when she can have an on-line boyfriend and now harbors all sorts of resentments towards me that she can't quite wrap her brain around?

Again, thank you for your reply.  It really has helped.