X is seriously Detaching from our kids

[greatdad]

As previously posted I won sole legal and physical custody 2 weeks ago. X now has once a month visitation ( lives in another state by choice), she came to divorce court 5 months pregnant, brought boyfriend.
On her 1st weekend , she when I was putting kids in car, she tried to put 5 trashbags ( said they had the kids toys and clothes, but who knows what was in them ?) in my car. She said that since she only see's them once a month that she didn't need them anymore.All thius in front of the children of course.
I took bags out of the car and told X that I would not accept anything from her, especially in this way, and took my kids and left.

My question is, has anyone else had something like this occur?
I think it is absolutely insane behavior, clearly X is trying to erase our children to make way for her "replacement " family....very unstable behavior.
Opinions, comments ?????

[Giggles]

How very sad for your children!!

Since she did take them for her visit, I wouldn't write her off completely just yet.  It could be that she's just very bitter towards you and is trying to "hurt" you and doesn't realize that it's the children she's hurting.  I would continue to foster that relationship for the kids sake and if she continues to say inappropriate things in front of the children, perhaps send her a letter explaining that her words are hurting the children and if she is angry and bitter towards you, to please not take it out on the children.  If that doesn't work then perhaps consider some sort of court action?

My YD's father is a total putz and has hurt my D's feelings numerous times.  Just this past weekend he was supposed to pick her up and didn't show.  Needless to say she was pretty ticked and I could have gone off but I assure her that he probably got called into work and that I would call him and see about next weekend.  I did call but he never returned my calls.  Thankfully, she hasn't asked about the call, I will tell her the truth that he didn't call me back, but I guess we'll face that situation when it comes.

The one thing I've learned in my custody dealings is to put the NEEDS of my children first and to love them MORE than I hate my X.  I think you will have to determine at what point does her behavior have a dramatic impact on the children...not an easy determination!!

[Droogle]

BM had every other weekend.  The first visit SD went on she came home all upset because BM gave her room and her toys to her younger sister and told SD that since she lived with DH she didn't need either anymore.  Needless to say we had one messed up toddler on our hands.

A year later she stopped seeing SD all together.  Fast forward to 2003 and SD saw BM because her older half-sister was hit by a car riding her bike and died.  SD hadn't seen her in years and had no real memories of her.  SD is very angry at BM and so are SD's other half-siblings.

SD is now 14yo and we don't track BM down for SD to see her but to see her half siblings.  BM has no contact with SD unless we push it.  

We have moved 3 times in 11 years.  Once from an apartment to my DH's family home when his grandfather was too old to deal with it, into my parents while we looked for a house to buy and into our new home.  I have lost track of how many moves BM has made.  It is sad.  She has lost 2 children and she doesn't even seem to be bothered by it.

I hope your ex wakes up before it is too late.

[Fran]

Last November my X dropped off my oldest child at a police station and told me to come pick her up.  The reason?  X said the child wasn't grateful enough for everything X does for her.

Since then X has only seen my daughter one time and wants nothing to do with her.  My daughter is 14 and couldn't be happier.  

So on one hand it might be sad, but on the other hand, when the X is a nut case, it's probably better in the long run anyway.

[chaucer]

When I first read this I thought – "what's wrong with this dad?!"... The child stays with you 28 days out of 30; it makes more sense that the toys & stuff should go to your house... & garbage bags are what the average person would put it in.  Mom shouldn't have to keep five big bags of stuff when she only has the kids 2 days a month.  A few toys will do.  The next logical step is for her to give it to Goodwill, & the kids will have picked up from your cues to be devestated by it.  Your kids are very likely getting their interpretations of their mom from your over-reactions.  

As a dad, you've probably heard the horror stories of self-righteous custodial moms who fiercely "protect" their kids from dad.  The moms are tuned-in to his every flaw & blunder.  The more the kids learn to see the jerk within their dad, the more uncomfortable they are with him, & the worse he becomes as a dad.  

Being "in-the-right" doesn't mean you're doing the right thing.  Your righteous indignation was wrong.  Grabbing the kids out of the car & refusing to let them visit their mom when they barely get to see her at all...  The kids didn't need to know that what mom did was an insult.  Why not emphasize how mom drove all that way just to see them.  Emphasize how she wants them to have their toys.  YOU were the one who made a scene in front of the kids.  You have a lot of power.  You can make your kids nervous wrecks at the thought of seeing their mom.  

If mom does something directly harmful to the children, then protect them.  But if its some stupid gesture of bitterness aimed at you, then often you can protect your children better by showing proactive diplomacy.  Choose your battles.  

Let the kids know that this is a very hard time for their mom, & that she loves them... even when she goofs up.  There are lots of books out there that discuss communication with a bitter EX.  I recommend "Custody Chaos, Personal Peace" by Jeffrey P. Wittmann.

[greatdad]

>When I first read this I thought – "what's wrong with this
>dad?!"... The child stays with you 28 days out of 30; it makes
>more sense that the toys & stuff should go to your house... &
>garbage bags are what the average person would put it in.

 First and foremost, she should have discussed what she wanted to do with me first, not surprise me with bags full of who knows what.She has not paid a penny of support in 1 1/2 years > The children have the things they need already. I can't pay daycare or utilities with old toys or clothes.

 Mom
>shouldn't have to keep five big bags of stuff when she only
>has the kids 2 days a month.
She should keep whatever she already has, as the children are accustomed to having those things there and they do not calculate that they are there 2 days  or 4 days. What about spring break, easter, holdays, 5 weeks of summer?You miss the point...this isn't about freeing up space at mom's, it's about maintaining some degree of consistency for the children.

 A few toys will do.  The next
>logical step is for her to give it to Goodwill, & the kids
>will have picked up from your cues to be devestated by it.

 You are very presumtuous that I gave any clues to the negative.

>Your kids are very likely getting their interpretations of
>their mom from your over-reactions.  

There was no over reaction here, there was the mother being selfish and impulsive, and me being responsible and giving her time to re think her fooolish , emotional reaction to losing custody.
>
>As a dad, you've probably heard the horror stories of
>self-righteous custodial moms who fiercely "protect" their
>kids from dad.  The moms are tuned-in to his every flaw &
>blunder.  The more the kids learn to see the jerk within their
>dad, the more uncomfortable they are with him, & the worse he
>becomes as a dad.  

Please reverse this to the NCP Mom in this instance, as all the actions were hers, my re action was the responsible one. Now the children will have their toys when they visit her, and not be made to feel excluded from her life.
>
>Being "in-the-right" doesn't mean you're doing the right
>thing.  Your righteous indignation was wrong.  Grabbing the
>kids out of the car & refusing to let them visit their mom
>when they barely get to see her at all...

What are you talking about here. There was no grabbing of anything, the children were being returned to me AFTER their visitation !

  The kids didn't need
>to know that what mom did was an insult.  Why not emphasize
>how mom drove all that way just to see them.
She had just driven to return them, the children are acutely aware of the distance they travel. After Mom failing to show upo to get them 6 times in a row, they are happy to see her when she does show.

 Emphasize how
>she wants them to have their toys.
She clearly stated in front of them that she did NOT.I in turn reminded them that they will have their toys when they visit, because mom will take them back to her house now.Didnt say it in a mean way and they were fine with it.

 YOU were the one who made
>a scene in front of the kids.

See above, not worth repeating.

 You have a lot of power.  You
>can make your kids nervous wrecks at the thought of seeing
>their mom.

The children are never nervous about seeing their mom, and it is she who creates the drama ( as demonstarted by her actions). This is not about "power" it is about trying to maintain as much consistency and order in the childrens lives as possible, even though Mom is determined to use the children as conduits to pass along ill will.
>
>If mom does something directly harmful to the children, then
>protect them.  But if its some stupid gesture of bitterness
>aimed at you, then often you can protect your children better
>by showing proactive diplomacy.  Choose your battles.

One can only have diplomacy if there is communication, in my case since she refuses to communicate I am reduced to doing damage control in the kindest way possible that circumstances allow.
>
>Let the kids know that this is a very hard time for their mom,
>& that she loves them... even when she goofs up.

If it was not for me doing just what you say, the judge would have required supervised visitation. There are some very good reasons I was given sole custody, you need to think about that !
 There are lots
>of books out there that discuss communication with a bitter
>EX.  I recommend "Custody Chaos, Personal Peace" by Jeffrey P.
>Wittmann.

[Davy]

Great responses GrearDad !!  I hope you enjoyed responding as much as I enjoyed reading your responses.

Just so you know, my kids mother continued to withdraw and reject the kids into their adulthood and never stopped UNTIL one became vulnerble and she was abled to power over them with money along with a sick hoity-toity societal "Christanity-evangalistic motherhood theory".  

[chaucer]

OK, well this puts a different tone on the picture.  For some reason I got the impression that you snatched the kids out of the car on their way TO visitiation.  I mis-read it.  Sorry bout that.  I wish you & your kids well.  I also wish mom & her new baby & baby's dad well.  I hope they can work out a good parenting arrangement when they break up.  

Being on the losing end of a long custody battle can bring out the worst in parents, especially if they were primary custodians or caregivers & get it taken away.  It can turn even functioning people into messes who can't see straight or think straight.  Mom is not going to suddenly be at her best two weeks after losing custody.  Someday when she regains some clarity she's gonna have lots of regrets.  I hope it won't come too late.  

I assume most of the people responding to you have been following your story for awhile.  I'm not only new to this blog, I'm new to blogs period.  Last nite was the first time I ever made any blog entry... ever!  I lead a very mellow life.  I didn't know I was capable of pissing people off... Blogging is certainly stimulating.  My "gut reaction" was what caused me to make my first blog response to you last night.  I can already tell I've gotta be careful not to get addicted to this stuff --- Best of luck greatdad!  Your kids are lucky to have a dad who loves them so much.

[greatdad]

>OK, well this puts a different tone on the picture.  For some
>reason I got the impression that you snatched the kids out of
>the car on their way TO visitiation.  I mis-read it.  Sorry
>bout that.  I wish you & your kids well.  I also wish mom &
>her new baby & baby's dad well.  I hope they can work out a
>good parenting arrangement when they break up.  

Not that I disagree, that her rebound relationship ( she was 5 months prego at divorce trial) and attempt at a "replacement" family won't last...but what are you basing your opinion on ?


>
>Being on the losing end of a long custody battle can bring out
>the worst in parents, especially if they were primary
>custodians or caregivers & get it taken away.

I have had pendente lite sole custody since 9/06, so she has had 1 1/2 years to adjust,mature, woman up, or whatever she needed to do, to start putting the children first.

 It can turn
>even functioning people into messes who can't see straight or
>think straight.  Mom is not going to suddenly be at her best
>two weeks after losing custody.

Again, see above paragraph !

 Someday when she regains some
>clarity she's gonna have lots of regrets.  I hope it won't
>come too late.  

Problem is , she has regrets now, we just got divorced AND she has no custody....I think it already is too late. What it's never to late for, is for her to take responsibility and be an actual participating parent.
>
>I assume most of the people responding to you have been
>following your story for awhile.  I'm not only new to this
>blog, I'm new to blogs period.  Last nite was the first time I
>ever made any blog entry... ever!  I lead a very mellow life.
>I didn't know I was capable of pissing people off...

No worries, you didn't piss me off, I merely questioned where you were coming from!

Blogging
>is certainly stimulating.  My "gut reaction" was what caused
>me to make my first blog response to you last night.  I can
>already tell I've gotta be careful not to get addicted to this
>stuff --- Best of luck greatdad!  Your kids are lucky to have
>a dad who loves them so much.

I do, and thanks.

[chaucer]

Re "I hope they can work out a good parenting arrangement when they break up"... What am I basing my opinion on?:    
Part wild guess & part the foundation that their relationship seems to be built on.  Like you said, rebound & an attempt at a replacement family.  It just sounds too desperate, & she sounds too messed up.  I would love to be wrong.  

I don't know what state you or she lives in.  Some states actively encourage joint custody; some don't.  If they do break up wouldn't it be nice if they could agree on joint custody & maintain it.  

Meanwhile, custody or not, I hope she can get a sense of responsibility with her first two kids.  Of more immediate concern... I hope she can handle the 5 weeks this summer... & that the summer draws the kids & their mom closer together.  

The subject of custody battles is a very emotionally charged one.  I can't believe I zero'd in on it for my first blogging experience.  I wonder if I should find something mellower like interior decorating or how to cook meatloaf without onions or something.