New here & need help with visitation refusal

[ILstepmom]

Okay, we have the custodial mom from hell.  

My significant other's youngest children have not come on visitation all summer -- the daughter, 11, told her dad it was "boring" and that she didn't want to come for both two week periods.  This last weekend, which was regularly scheduled visitation, both she and step son, 10, refused because there was "nothing to do".  We live in a rural area -- there are lots of outdoor activities.  We also had two mini vacations scheduled to involve the kids over the summer, and other activities as well...so in reality, their complaint is baseless.

The custodial mom, when confronted by the police, says "I can't make them go."  That is such b&@sh*t!  All she has to say is "You go with your dad, it's your time with him."  But she refuses to -- and she abdicates responsibility by making sure she isn't home when the visitation transfer takes place.  These children have little supervision at home with mom, eat crap morning noon and night, and have not been encouraged to develop a strong positive relationship with their dad.  Their mom since day one has tried to reduce or eliminate visitation -- we have detailed records and a spreadsheet documenting her behavior, but it didn't do any good last time we were in court -- basically the judge said "you're both being bad, now I don't want to see you again."

The police refuse to site her.  According to them, if the kids refuse to go, there's nothing they can do.  Never mind that the REASON THEY REFUSE is because of the way their mom badmouths their dad.

Right now her atty has a thing pending where visitation for the children should be "optional" and seeking more child support.  (yeah, that's right folks, she owns a multi-million dollar business, a yacht, and needs more money, no what she really wants to do is harrass the shit out of my SO).

Anybody have any suggestions on what to put in the motion we are writing?  I read a post that said something about putting in there that any local police official must issue a citation for contempt?  Any other tricks?

Thanks

[Kitty C.]

You need an atty......BAD.  'OPTIONAL' visitation..meaning the kids get to decide whether they go or not???  I don't think so!  Get this in court and get a custody evaluator involved.  Nothing, I repeat, NOTHING in regards to the court order should be OPTIONAL for the children, they are too young to make decisions like that........that's wy they have PARENTS, to make the decisions for them.

Also start checking your state statutes....some have laws against custodial interferance and that's exactly what the BM is doing.  Unfortunately, with the BM's money, she just might be able to
'buy' any order she wants.  

The 'optional' BS needs to be killed quickly and permanently.  And the only way you're gonna get that done is with a good atty.  If the BM is allowed to get that in, you can kiss those kids goodbye, possibly forever.

As for the CS, make DAMN sure you get subpoenas for ALL her private accounts and assets.  Don't take her financial affidavit as gospel, because I can PROMISE you she will lie on it.

[ILstepmom]

Well, we would get an atty if we could, but money is an issue.  And I know that judges are prejudiced against pro se petitioners.  Sigh.

Yes, Illinois is a state where they cite for visitation interference -- but the damn police dept in her town refuses to cite her.  They basically don't want to get involved.

You're right about the "buying" justice thing, my opinion is that we get as much (or as little) justice as we can afford.  The whole "best interest of the child" thing is a bunch of crap.  It's who has the best known atty, what kind of mood the judge is in...and what kills me is that the ex wil lie and lie and lie...but because she has a high power atty she gets away with it.

As to getting her personal financial info, well, we need an Act of God.  She was very successful thus far in hiding assets and arguing against full disclosure because her business is privately held and it could "damage her confidentiality."  She writes herself her own paychecks, basically, for as much or as little as she pleases, and then only reports what she pays herself -- nothing about loans to herself, or bonuses, or the fact that she uses her company credit card to take out kids five nites per week for dinner....ACK!

But thanks for the info.  

[TGB]

See:

Tips on keeping documentation
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tips1.htm

Tips for Getting Started
http://www.deltabravo.net/news/10-19-2000.htm

Family Wars, The Alienation of Children
(Lists specific alienating behaviors for you to document)
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/pas-familywars.htm

You Don't Have To Prove PAS
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/provepas.htm

[LizaLou1]

I have seen many posts that say small children "refuse" to come and ncps don't make them.  Trust me, I believe you I just don't understand how parents tolerate it.  My daughter does not tell me "no" and get away with it.  But, I'm not in your shoes either, so what do I know.

If Mom is not around or if she is around during transfer and Dad  says "get your butt in the car" what do they do start fighting and screaming or just say no?

What would happen if Dad just picked them up, carried them to the car, buckled up and drove off?

My cousin's child (5) (& mom)  used to do what you describe.  The child  was picked up and carted off by his Dad while the child was kicking and screaming.  However, 2 minutes in the car and out of sight of mom he was fine and had a great visit.  Now he has no problems getting the child - mom backed off when she saw her tactics would not work and child realized it too.  I know this because I used to go with him to serve as his witness in case he ever needed one (and he did).

The more you don't "make" them come the easier it will be for them to never come come again.  These kids are nowhere close to making decisions for themselves.  If they can run over you now at 10 & 11 imagine what they will try to do when teenagers.

DH's  judge said kids don't get to decide visitation and even put my teenaged SKIDS' BM in jail because it was her responsibility not the kids.  At the time she had them brainwashed with PAS tactics. They called on the phone and told him they were not coming to visit.  He said yes you are and drove 6 hours to the court ordered half-way point to meet them.  They were not there of course because Mom did not drive them. During the hearing the kids told the Judge it was their decision not their mom's not to visit.  He told them kids don't get to decide.  This was a relief to them and 18 months later they both want to live with us and appreciate all his fighting and attempts to get visitation.

Don't sweat the "boring" comments overly much.  Boredom is a common affliction with all pre-teen and teenagers.  As a custodial mom, I sometimes have make our girl (9) visit her Dad when she says its boring at his house (this last weekend was a perfect example).  But that really doesn't mean anything to me because she also says it's boring at my house.  So off she goes and it works out for the best in the end.  Hey, we all get bored from time to time, its life, so they need to get over it.

I've seen several angles of similar situations and I know its not easy. I hope the best for your family.

Lizalou

[MixedBag]

HERE the police department enforces only CRIMINAL law and not civil law.

I suggest you figure out which law covers this if you believe that the police can cite her.

Then have it handy and go talk to them....and have it handy the next time she refuses.

I'm a firm believer in enforcing parenting time even if the kids say nope, period.  But most of the time you have to do it through the courts by going back and filing a motion to show cause/contempt and ask for make-up time for the times dad missed.  If Mom wasn't home for the pick up, dad missed the time.  

If the kids don't "want to come" -- then you need to work the angle that they are unduly influenced by their mother to say this and that she is not obeying the order by at least sending them anyways.

If you two decide that they can go back EARLY that's your decision.  But IMHO, mom has to send them -- even against their wishes and let dad and his kids take it up on his turf.

[ILstepmom]

These are great resources, thanks.  

We do document -- we keep a spreadsheet of all the lost time, the nasty phone calls, etc.

However, although last time we were in court we presented an eight page spreadsheet, the judge still did nothing.

It's depressing.  

[ILstepmom]

It's good to know that it worked out for someone.  It is so frustrating to document this, file a motion, show up in court, and have absolutely nothing change.  

The custoidal demon has no intention of promoting a close relationship with dad, and the court does absolutely nothing to enforce the order.

We are filing separate motions for each of the last three occasions that the kids didn't come (got that from one of the references above!).

The other thing that gets me is that the custodial demon always insinuates that she's "afraid", like DH is some big bad man.  But it is successful to a degree.  

I am so tired of her and her manipulation.  But this is like her hobby -- she's determined to completely destroy whatever relationship remains with the kids.

[Davy]

for specific IL statue.

Also check out RECUSAL motions.  Recusing a judge is requesting the judge to remove him/herself from the case and may be more effective with an attorney from outside the local yocal 'good ole boy' jurisdiction that does not normally practice in a particular jurisdiction.    

My (one of) IL attorney motioned the court "is bias and prejudice against xxx, the father, and his children : xxx, xxx, xxx.  It is OK to file multiple recusal motions and almost expected due to the known corruptness of the IL court houses. The experiece was years ago and is written only for your CONSIDERATION and to encourage in what appears to a no-win situation.  There were extreme situations in my case and I was able to locate excellent attorneys that were dirt cheap because of the extremes.    

My situation was similiar in that I had little or no money and was up against money and political power.