okay I tried...

[too_short]

All,

For background, please see my earlier post with subject line "need help here."
Also CO states I have every custody every other weekend.

The weekend before last, I had a master's conference with respect to my contempt petition.  Hearing date is in late November.  Ex brought son to conference hoping to get him to testify... no testimony taken from either parties, just got our date.

Since son was at conference (which was on a Friday), my atty approached my son and she encouraged him to go.  My ex was on the spot this time and so when my son looked at her to see if he could go, she said he could go.  So I got him, we had a great time at the county fair, lots for rides, etc..

Got a letter earlier this week from mother accusing me of ruining that weekend since I didn't let him take a baby hamster home with him that Sunday.  She accused me of promising a hamster and not coming forth with it.  I was very clear with my son he can have a baby hamster after they're weaned.  And at the time they weren't, in fact their eyes had yet to open.  

So when I came this Friday, it was a repeat of all the crap that happened july, august, and beginning of september.  He was hiding behind his mother, holding on to her arm.  When I squated down (eye level) I reached out and tickled him.  He let go, laughed, and then grabbed his mother's arm again.  

Seeing that he was
responsive, I decided this time to try picking him up -- he wouldn't let go of his mother's arm, and so I put him back down.  He smiled a little -- this is somewhat of a game to him.  So this time I picked him up, unwrapped him from mother's arm, and started walking toward my car.  He was not kicking nor screaming -- which was what I had feared the earlier times.  Mother grabs his upperbody and starts pulling him from me.   Not wanting a tug-a-war, I let him go.  Mother then accuses me of trying to grab him against his will and take off.  She calls 911.

Police come, son hides behind mother, and I don't get custody of my son for the weekend.  Don't have this video taped -- tried to have pictures taken, but pickups are in evening, so nothing came out.

No allegations of abuse -- at least not to the police officers tonight.

Also, my wife was in the car, and mother -- unprovoked -- threatens wife.
Police had to physically restrain ex so that we could leave.

Bottom line:  Mother knows if she calls police I don't have my weekends.
I'm already at 3 months of denied visitatioon, and since court date in mid November, I'll have 3 more denials.

This is disgusting.   We've already filed a supplemental to our contempt petition.
It was granted emergency status, but at Masters' it was relegated to normal petition because "there's no blood."

On the brigher side, Mother's petition for an immediate move away was denied.
She was told she can't go until change in custody petition resolved.  

[prince13]

I completely empathize with your situation. This is exactly the trouble my boyfriend experienced last Fall. He missed out on all of his weekend parenting time from September through December due the antics and bs from the ex. This also included a missed Thanksgiving holiday, too.
His ex continually called the police as well and they won't force anything as it is a civil matter. Unfortunately, you have to go to court to resolve this, and sometimes it is not easy to get an immediate court date. We filed in early Oct and didn't get to court until 12/15/03. Can you believe that? My boyfriend would drive  4 hours one way in an attempt to see his children only to be denied and have each of the older two kids at one point or another tell him he was "abusive" and all sorts of other things. Mom let them talk to their father this way, and also during telephone contact. We tried to get her on contempt in court, but it didn't fly...she just got a proverbial slap on the wrist and a verbal lashing from the Judge. However, the Judge did threaten to change custody if she didn't start being a parent and stop allowing her children to get the upperhand. She requested that all weekend visitation be eliminated and that my boyfriend only get 1/2 summer vac and eo holiday. The Judge didn't go for it. Although, he did limit is visitation to one weekend per month instead of every other, and ordered them into counseling (bf with the kids). Since the counselor has been involve the BM has been behaving as much as she is capable of doing so. Based on what the counselor told her (depite what you think those kids WANT to be with their Dad) she has even given him his weekend back that he lost in court nearly a year ago. Granted, we don't have that in a court order yet, but so far so good. This counselor has been a miracle worker.

The best thing that I can tell you is to bring a witness with you on the exchanges. It would be best to not have a family member do this, but a netural friend so as it won't look biased in court etc. And NEVER GIVE UP. Despite the fact that you may not get your child on your weekends you need to keep trying. The child will see that Dad wants to be involved and loves hime etc... As hard as it may be you have to do this, and DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!!!

I can also recommend a book for you that was our bible last fall when we were going through all of this crap. It really put a strain on our relationship, too. The book is "Divorce Posions" by Dr. Richard Warshak.

Thinking of you and please know that you are not alone.

Prince13 (otherwise known as pagan in chat)

[too_short]

Yes, my son wanted to be with me too.  Before I filed for change in custody (lots of issues here), I had trouble getting him to go back to his mother's on Sunday.  Now after I filed for custody,  he says I'm "mean and a liar."

I have read "Divorce Poison" -- an excellent book.  I was employing many of those techniques and it was working but mother has lately been just too determined to alienate us.


Whenever I come to pick him up, they always put on a big show.  My son hides behind his mother acts like he's scared of me.   The police aren't  trained for this sort of thing at all.  They get taken in by the show.  Mother goes on her tirades in front of them and the dufesses don't realise that at no point does the mother try to encourage son to go.   This escapes them.

I try to talk to him to get him to go but of course he's not going to go because he knows his mother doesn't want him to.

[teakae]

>Whenever I come to pick him up, they always put on a big show.
> My son hides behind his mother acts like he's scared of me.  
>The police aren't  trained for this sort of thing at all.
>They get taken in by the show.  Mother goes on her tirades in
>front of them and the dufesses don't realise that at no point
>does the mother try to encourage son to go.   This escapes
>them.
>

This sort of situation happens all the time with us too. Due to the diligence of my SO staying in the relationship for 10 years to be near the kids, the alienation isn't complete, and the kids WANT to go with their dad. The mom hides them in the house and tells them to not answer the door. Then she calls the police saying that he is stalking them. When the police arrive, the kids run to dad and hop in the car. She throws a big show for the police and they try to mediate but she doesn't give in. Police puts pressure on him to give in and just tells SO that he needs to go to court to settle this. Kids are determined to go with dad but police finally coax them to go back to their mom.

Police seem all to jaded to "custody issues" and just put pressure on the side that is the most reasonable to give in. I don't necessarily think they don't see what is going on but all they want is to get the disput settled and get away from there. They aren't interested, nor it is their job to try to do what is best for the kids. As they leave, they say "don't call us again". Doesn't it occur to them that nobody really "wants" to call them if they didn't have to? That it is really the last resort by desperate people where all other methods have failed?
Sure its not their job, etc.. but to those on the other side, it feels like the rescue ship that finally arrived, yells at you to stop aruguing and rows away with out picking anybody up from the ocean.

[MYSONSDAD]

I get the same crap. My son waits for me at the door and can't wait for me to come get him.

Mom has slandered me to the Police, refused my time. The Police say it is a civil matter and call my attorney. This is bullshit. I have a CO that clearly says I get my son.

Friday I went to pick him up, he tells me he can hear my knocking at the door and mommy won't let him come to me. Says their playing hide and seek and daddy can't find them.

What kind of sick bitch does that?

I know exactly what your going thru. I have not had a holiday yet.

"Children learn what they live"

[too_short]

It's so frustrating that the Police are being used to deny my weekends.

Sometimes they do try to mediate these weekends but they're awful at it.  Last Friday, one of the officer's crtiicized me for not apologizing to my son for picking him up and trying to take him to my car.  (Mother claims I yanked him from her).  I did nothing wrong -- she grabbed him from me.  Instead, I tried talking to him about other things to get his mind off the present situation.  At this point, mother goes "I'm getting tired of this" and ends my conversation with son.

Then the officer goes further and says he has a nine year old so from a divorced wife and he doesn't have problems getting his son for the weekend.  Well officer is that because you're wife is not on a campaign to remove you from his life?  But you know, often you can't reason with this guys -- they're not very verbal.  So I just have to sit there and particpate in the BS.

I bet the guy didn't put in the police report that  Mother made treats to my wife and had to be physically restrained.

No, I prefer the times they don't try to mediate so I don't have to go through more BS.

[gipsy]

Keep trying , Did you have a copy of the court order , to show the police , AND BRING THE VIDEO CAMERA , aND PUT IT INTO HER FACE  , I had exactly the same crappole , she's doing this for the effect she is getting , Tell the police that sometimes they cry but , when you get Him away he stops , I talked to a counselor , And the counselor told both psycho mom and me , Too bad kids don't want to go when they are suposed to and want to go when they are not , You could probably talk to the police about this and say she is terrorizing the child , My psycho was , and when You give up she learns to repeat the sequence , If the police show up in CO . then ask them to do a civil standby , and go ther with them and a video camera , In my case the video camera did the trick , And My atty told me to do it , Its legal to film in the state of washington , if you are filming what is in the open and not intruding into the normal privacy of the home , . I would be telling the police that you have a court order and ask them to help you , They can't really orgue a court order  , I don't know what the police were thinking , But bring the court order , I would go to the police and explain the situation and or go over there head  to the chief . Just remmember be a civl nice dad that want s to see your son and . Ask if they can do that when theres a court order, Also It really helped alot when I had the pick up point at Mcdonalds restaurant , She has to be there ready to go and some people do it at the police station , that helps alot , It seems like a wierd Idea , But , Every one I heard that did it liked it , Because it limits exposure to the psycho , I don't talk to the mom at all at the transfer , I just get My son and walk away ,. Ask Your atty what the police jurisdiction is in these cases , Then . I also brought candy , that will change the attitude , You have to be consistant , In WASh state the law say's parents have to promote  and foster the relationship  between the parents , I would call her and tell her or have the atty write a letter saying you will expect makeup time, This is the sick game they play to try to get you to give up , Don't let her do it , I showed up and drug my son away kicking and screaming , Get use to it , Untill she see's that you are picking up no mater what ,, then she will keep it up , And through this always spoil the shit out of your son , I do , And when she say's all this wierd shit , Just tell her to have her atty write a letter , and you will expect the child to be ready for pick up and hang up , !! I use to tell the psycho to have her atty write letters , then I had an agreement with My atty , that he would just fax me the letter . then you can fax the very civil response , Not admitting any thing ever  to her atty . My atty told Me [wash state ] that There's this wierd part of the law that say's I can fax her atty . But he has to fax all communication to my atty . then Mom will see thatshe'spaying a bunch of money for letters and You arent . this is what happened , By the way I can fax some very nice and lenghty rerading material , Just copy several pages of the book about Parental alienation etc , and say she is doing it , her atty will charge her for the reading material , and you can copy it off this site ,any way there's a few things you can do , But at first My atty read and modified all my emails before he let me send them , wich is good at first , untill you get the hang of responding to all this crap ,

[MYSONSDAD]

I do everything you have done, except the candy. She has slammed me with the police and they do not want to get involved. They tell me it is civil and call my attorney. I keep a CO in every vehicle and a copy in my house.

It is lawful to videotape in my state, last time I did it, she slapped with an RO, 'she's afraid' And that is all it takes...

What I am pissed about is what effect this has on my son. This is bullshit to put a child thru this and the courts encourage it. A parent who has this much resistence to the others Parenting Time, should automatically lose custody.

"Children learn what they live"

[nosonew]

Had the same issues...got a court order for mother to take child elsewhere, and she was NOT ALLOWED to be PRESENT or within 500 feet of the pick up place!  So, I would suggest you request she take son to meeting place, have TWO places in the order, 1st a fast food place (Like McDonalds) and YOU HAVE someone else there, NOT YOUR WIFE, have grandma, aunt, someone neutral, and your ex drops child off there, you pick up there after she leaves.  BE VERY SPECIFIC on times.  Like "Mother to bring child at 5pm...and be off the premises by 5:05 pm...

Second option if that doesn't work is she drops off at POLICE STATION with same scenario...grandparents, friend, neighbor (someone who knows your child) with same time frame.  Then you are to pick up at 5:10... See the picture?  

Ours was "To be picked up from school, mother is not to be on school premises at any time after 12:00 noon on that day, or within 2 hours of school being dismissed. "  Then, if no school when visitation, she dropped child off at grandparents, and was to be gone..."

THE DIFFERENCE was AMAZING!  

[MYSONSDAD]

After I got my first RO, we did the Police station thing. It did not work. They did not like the fact we were doing exchanges there. And believe it not, she kept up the same crap. Her family and friends would hide in the alley and come out, after I went to the parking area, she flagged them. The only other thing I can think of is at the State Police Department. The local cops don't want to deal with it.

I like your idea of having someone else to do exchanges for her. That might work.

Getting my Parenting Time should not be like this. Wonder if she has ever considered that someday our son may be a father going thru this same crap...

"Children learn what they live"