PAS in Illinois Court system

[Anthony_ill]

I had heard once before that the PAS (Parental Alienation Syndrom) was up before the court system for review during the past 12 months, but I have been able to find anything (rules/approval ect) on this.

My ex is a classic example of what I have read, in mutiple books, however when I approached the Judge (Will County Il) two years ago he refused to consider this since it was up for review and not accepted within the DSMIV' as of that time.

Can anyone help me with this information, or how to approach a Judge that has not moved on a visitation interfernce issue now going on over two years (My original Court Parenting agreement' indicates' 50% of' the' time I have Physical Joint  Custody).

Motions have been filed but no results, just conintued status which has not broken down futher.

Thanks

[indisbelief]

I too have joint custody. We just went through a protracted two year ordeal in Will county...same thing, visitation interference. Who is your lawyer and who is your judge. Apparently we had the best judge in the county too! The main problem is that the number of judges appointed to the bench to deal with family court issues has not kept up with the huge population growth. Add to the mix the fact that most lawyers are overbooked, you end up with the incentive for the judge to postpone getting to an actual trial. The lawyers don't want to take the time to prepare for a trial either so they like to postpone issues too. Just look at the court docket....each case is alloted 15 minutes. Right! We had the most airtight case you could imagine. We had documentation like you wouldn't believe and still, when we finally got to trial last month (two years to the date it started and continued) the judge basically told both lawyers, you need to settle this without a trial or no one will be happy. I ended up getting only four days of interfered visitation (out of 25) and she had to pay $2,200 in my lawyers fees (which over the two years was more like $15,000. This is supposedly a huge victory too! She even violated a court order that the judge himself wrote last October---by "disappearing". I spoke with the Governor's aid who supposedly deals with this issue over a year ago, showed him the documentation and the failure of the court to ever address the issue by delaying delaying delaying and they never got back to me. I was so pleased to see that the State Legislature just passed the bill to create  a talk force on visitation interference!!! If you want to form some sort of group to get our story's to that group I would love to work on it. Any advice you need on the "system" let me know, I have been through it all. The best advice I have is to keep fighting---and don't put your child in the middle even if your ex does. That does not mean avoiding the issue, though.  Although my daughter has been somewhat "brainwashed" --i.e. PASshe knows that I have fought to be with her, that I am her dad and I love her.    The sad thing in all this is that Illinois has some of the strongest laws on the books, it is a criminal offense to interfere with visitation, yet, they hide the statistics on it!!!!!

[Anthony_ill]

Thanks for the words and insights to a very similar situation. The Judge is Allen, and while I had an attourney earlier on, I realized that I was just spending energy on nothing. I have consulted with a few attourney's however they indicated due to the age of the kids (both in there later teens) that by the time the courts were thru they would be o their own.

Can you add in anything  about the Laws on Visitation interference. While I have found some information, it didn't seem to have the teeth that you described. What laws were there and what are the consequences for her' actions.. I have filed contempt charges, but as you described, her lawyer (I am assuming has never been paid) and the' Judge would like this just to go away and either be settled out of court or for me just to' stop trying.

Let me know, and thanks!

[indisbelief]

Basically, if you go to pick up the kids and they are not there, call the police and show a copy of them this law--IL Public Act 8896. It is a criminal offense to withhold visitation in the State of Illinois--there are only two defenses I think---one is if she feels the kids are in imminend danger. It is supposedly a crime punishable by prison and fines (after three times)...but you have to go the criminal route. The judge, if he finds three incidents of it can do the same---put her in jail...but they never ever do, especially since it take two years to hear the case.  Also,  my case was different, our daughter lives in Ohio, so I travel to Ohio to see her even though everything is heard in the IL court because that is where we both lived when we got divorced and joint custody. I could not call the police. How long has this been going on? How long have you been divorced? PAS is usually used in terms of custody issues not visitation issues.  Also, I suggest you document everything. WE send certified letters on the exact pickup and parenting time for the upcoming month. This way she can't say she didn't know or anthing like that to the judge. The judge in our case, Baron, was impressed by our record keeping and it helped us to get the little we did in the settlement. Also, I have made an effort to go to school events, games everything possible to let my daughter know I am not part time or just "visiting". Just don't ever go away....you will prove your ex right. Make it about your relationship with the kids, not the "engaging" or punishing your ex obviosly want to continue.  

Section 5: The Criminal Code of 1961 (720ILCS 5/10-5.5 new)
Sec. 10-5.5 Unlawful visitation interference

Every person who, in violation of visitation provisions of a court order relating to child custody, detains or conceals a child with the intent to deprive another person of his or her rights to visitation shall be guilty of unlawful visitation interference.
 

A person committing unlawful visitation interference is guilty of a petty offense. However, a person violating this Section after 2 prior convictions of unlawful visitation interference is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

 

Any law enforcement officer who has probable cause to believe that a person has committed or is committing an act in violation of this Section SHALL issue to that person a notice to appear

The notice shall:

(1) be in writing;

(2) state the name of the person and his address, if known;

(3) set forth the nature of the offense;

(4) be signed by the officer issuing the notice; and

(5) request the person to appear before a court at a certain time and place.

(f) Upon failure of the person to appear, a summons or warrant of arrest may be issued.


 

It is an affirmative defense that:

 

1. A person or lawful custodian committed the act to protect the child from imminent physical harm, provided that the defendant's belief that there was physical harm imminent was reasonable and that the defendant's conduct in withholding visitation rights was a reasonable response to the harm believed imminent;


It is an affirmative defense that:

2. The act was committed with the mutual consent of all parties having a right to custody and visitation of the child; or

 

It is an affirmative defense that:

3. The act was otherwise authorized by law.

A person convicted of unlawful visitation interference shall not be subject to a civil contempt citation for the same conduct for violating visitation provisions of a court order issued under the Illinois Marriage and Dissolution of Marriage Act.

Important Note: The law refers to a 3rd offence being a Class A Misdemeanor. Class A misdemeanors are punishable by fine and incarceration.

[MYSONSDAD]

I am just south of you. I too, have incredible interference going on, denials up my butt. And the judges do not look at it.

In regard to the PAS, go for the Frye test. I can send you case law on PAS. I beleive there are four for Illinois.

http://www.breakthroughparenting.com/PAS.htm

[MYSONSDAD]

I have tried to get the Police to enforce this. They will tell you it is a civil matter and call your attorney.

I keep a copy of my CO, Interference code, in my car at all times. Along with my work schedule. And still get denied. Get gas reciepts showing I was there making an attempt to pick up. Ex does not care. No respect for the CO.

If you have any suggestions and how to get them to enforce, please pass it on.

You can find the Task Force here:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=0170&GAID=8&GA=94&DocTypeID=HR&LegID=20644&SessionID=50

I am writing a thank you to the person who sponsored this with a story of my situation. With luck, they will take a personal interest.

"Children learn what they live"

[MYSONSDAD]

http://www.childcustodycoach.com/pas.html

This is jam packed with info. Also gives you an insight on how to make this an issue with the Judge.

The site Bates vs Bates. One of the lastest PAS cases in Illinois. Somewhere on this site, you will find case laws state by state.

Hope this helps!

"Children learn what they live"

[Anthony_ill]

Who is that person that sponsered this?

Any idea on what this task force is using to aknowldge this as a fact (as in what details do they use ect).

Do you think it would benefit more of us would write them as well (not to vent, however to share their story??).

I would be also glad to share my story with them, the details are stagering at this point.

[indisbelief]

>I have tried to get the Police to enforce this. They will
>tell you it is a civil matter and call your attorney.
>
>I keep a copy of my CO, Interference code, in my car at all
>times. Along with my work schedule. And still get denied. Get
>gas reciepts showing I was there making an attempt to pick up.
>Ex does not care. No respect for the CO.
>
>If you have any suggestions and how to get them to enforce,
>please pass it on.
>
>You can find the Task Force here:
>http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/billstatus.asp?DocNum=0170&GAID=8&GA=94&DocTypeID=HR&LegID=20644&SessionID=50
>
>I am writing a thank you to the person who sponsored this with
>a story of my situation. With luck, they will take a personal
>interest.


My question is this...after all of this it seems your case is very serious. Did the police give you proof that you were there...what reason did they give for not enforcing the law? Did the judge do in your case take this long and what did he give you if he found her guilty? In the end, when we finally got to trial and charges kept piling up almost monthly re: interference, uur judge basically told both attorney's to settle this or he would make sure it woudl cost a lot and then told her what he thought was a fair monetary settlment to me for all of the court costs for the visitation interference. IN my case, I had the proof and she broke a court order by leaving town with my daughter during my weekend and all she ended up with was having to give me four make up days and then pay $2,200...a mere pittance in terms of time I lost, money I lost and damage to my relationship with my daughter.  Despite this, she figures out ways to limit my time with my daughter every chance she can get.

[indisbelief]

I am in the process of writing the sponsor of the legislation and asking if they will be listening to real cases. I actually have some suggestions on how to fix this problem that I want to suggest to the task force. Maybe a few of us who live in Will County can get together and ask for a meeting with the task force together?

Some of my suggestions are as follows"

1. obviously hire more judges based on the population growth so that we won't have to wait two years. You and I both know, miss a child support payment and they throw you in jail and garnish your pay check. But your ex keeps the kids from you and violates almost every paragraph of the joint custody agreement...two years later....the violator gets a slap on the wrist.

2. Create a web site, like the one they have for deadbeat parents, posting the picture and information on the parent who interferes with visitation---found guilty.

3. Every divorce in which the parties have kids, must go through a thorogh training session on how not to put the kids in the middle and the dangers and impact on the children of doing this. Also a similar one for both parents and children. If either parent isn't "getting it" the person running the session (a trained psychologist or such) could write a note to the judge to keep in the file, showing the issues the parent is exhibiting so if they interfere, this could be used later.

4. Make the violator, if found guilty, pay all of the court costs and lawyer costs for both parties. My ex is a teacher---yes, can you believe it, and the judge said she only had to pay my lawyer bills up to $2,200 because he didn't want to bankrupt her...nice incentive for her!!!

Do you have any more ideas on how they can fix the system?