Need to know, ASAP!

[dontunderstand]

DH took SD for his 5 days plus weekend "week"  this last week.  He took her out of state (PP states he can during his "week" ) We picked up SD Monday afternoon and according to the letter we sent BM prior to the week, we stated we would have SD Monday at 3 until Monday night at 7:00pm.  She and BOTH attorney's got a copy and while BM objected to SD going at all, her attorney told her she had to.  Neither attorney said anything about it.  Well during the course of the week SD has to call BM every night she is out of state, per PP.  When she would call BM would keep her on the phone for 15-20 min. each time.  Each time she would make SD feel guilty  and SD would cry and promise her "this will be over soon and be brave, we can be brave twins"  "This will all be over soon"  "Mommy will take care of everything"  All on tape.  (She was informed she is being taped) She promised SD pony rides, the moon, and anything else she could think to bribe her with so she would ruin her fun with DH and want to come home right now. Well needless to say SD has fun until she talks to BM  and then she gets "sick" and cries, etc.  Yesterday BM told DH that she is coming to the airport to pick up SD (Sunday at noon) and he BETTER give her the info.  Then she said her and her attorney would be at the airport to get her.  Do we have to let her go Sunday even though she isn't supposed to pick her up until Monday?  I can't get ahold of our attorney.  I know that if she doesn't get her Sunday she will more than likely file kidnapping charges....  Please help!  

[patton]

What does your court say?  

Do you have legal back up to show you are supposed to keep SD until Monday?  

Did you send the letter certified?

Did she or her attorney send you back anything certified disputing the time?

[dontunderstand]

Court just says 5 days plus a weekend.  No set times.  And that he could take her out of state during that time, and we had to give her a contact number and let SD call her everynight.
Just the certified letter that we mailed BM, and BOTH attorney's.
Yes the letter was sent certified, she would not pick it up so that she could claim that she didn't know anything.  That was the exact reason our attorney told us to send him a copy and he would (and did) give her attorney a copy.
No, nobody disputed anything! (BM tried to dispute her going at all, but nothing about dates and times) BM talked to DH yesterday and told him that she was going to pick her up at the airport on Sunday and that he NEEDED to give her the flight info, naturally he refused...and when that didn't work she said that her and her attorney were going to be at the airport Sun to pick up SD.

[Sunshine1]

JMHO, but there is no way on this earth I would be able to get my attorney to come to a pick up at an "airport" no matter how much I was paying him on a Sunday afternoon...unless maybe they were immediate family.

I have been reading your posts, and trying to follow this nut.  You need to seriously limit her contact with you and the SD.  If she is only entitled to one call, then one call it would be, it seems like every visit is traumatic and it just doesn't have to be that way.  Her calls are needless to say extremely inappropriate and I would tell her that if she can't talk about more appropriate things then the call will be ending.

I know it may be bending the rules of the CO but she is totally running your lives while you have her and it is starting to really irritate me, I can't imagine what is going on with you three.

I am not telling you to break any CO's but there is not a need to speak to her if at all until the return of SD on MONDAY!

I hope you can try and salvage the rest of your visit with SD.  Don't empower her to let her run your lives and time with SD.  When your SD sees you taking a stand, I think she will "feel" more comfortable  and not sick to her stomach as much.

Just my 2 cents..hang in there! :)

[MixedBag]

My EX is mad at me for something similar.

I get "one week to include Christmas" and an additional one weekend per month if I have him two weeks notice.  I took it all together this last year and have on several other occasions in the past.

I believe I didn't violate any order -- of course he does.

Funny though, he hasn't filed a "Motion to Show Cause" with the court to SAY he's right -- but I filed a "Motion to Clarify" last Christmas after all the arguing and BS I put up with.

I'm gonna say that "Socrateaser" has said that you can combine weekends with weeks and other periods of time, and that's why I did what I did -- because I think I'm right.

Also, I wonder if BM is gonna pay her attorney the going rate to go to the airport -- no way.  Apply some common sense here.

Send her back when you believe your time is over.

[dontunderstand]

To be very honest with you, I think that her attorney is either a member of her distant family or a family friend.  She has had her on retainer since 1999 and has only had 1 job (maybe had it for 1 yr. max) so I have no clue how she would be able to pay for one?  Her attorney is also a partner of a firm and I KNOW she costs a chunk of change!
Per PP she can call once during our "uninterrupted" week, but becasue DH and SD are out of state SD has to call every night.  The comissioner said so that she could "check in and mom could make sure she was alright"  however, DH said she has been talking to SD for at least 20 min. EVERY conversation! It is always the same thing..."Is (DH name, not your dad) talking bad about mommy?"  "Mommy will take care of everything, don't worry"  Bribes about what is to come as soon as you get home, etc...
She really does try to run our lives too!  We have put our foot down~ALOT!  We don't argue, as a matter of fact, my favorite thing to say to her is "this is not open for arguement or discussion!"
Visits are only tramatic when she calls and as bad as it sounds for a brief period of time we would let her call so that we can tape her so that when we go to court to request stipulations on contact with SD during visits, we have a leg to stand on.  Unless ordered, we no longer allow her to call BM or vice versa during her weekend.  It is so funny BM says that SD has to call her as soon as she gets here to make she she is okay and she has called 5-7 times before because SD didn't call right away.  BUT, when DH calls for his allotted "1 call per week" (per PP) she tells her to "just hang up on him"  or tells her she has to get off the phone.  Everything is just so jacked up right now, she gets away with SO MUCH!  DH has jumped through all of her rediculous hoops and she still is such a b@#$h!
SD feels sick to her stomach when mom tells her that we are going to keep her and she will never see her again.  And when BM tells her that we just need to go away and leave them alone.  After talking with her and reassuring her she is fine until it is almost time to go home.  I believe that is because BM drills her all the way home.
Another funny thing is that she is always telling us and writing us notes that she loves us and we are always so nice to her, yet BM calls ranting and raving about how she just doesn't like spending time with us...
Thanks for letting me vent...I appreciate all of you!
Oh and for the record, she irritates me ALL THE TIME!!! ;)

[dontunderstand]

BM called me this morning and left a message to call her mom and let her know if SD and DH will be back by 7pm so she thinks she is going to come and pick her up today.  (She called SD yesterday and told her that she would see her Mon. @ 7) I REFUSE to call anyone back.  1st BM's mom should have nothing to do with this  (she always has her mom call like that is supposed to scare us or make us do what she wants) and 2nd she got the paper that says when she is supposed to pick her up.
Wish us luck though, I believe this is going to be a night from hell with her.  I am sure her family will show up too.  I am also very sure that the police will be here one way or another, I am sure she will say that we kidnapped SD or that I assulted her (which I would not under ANY circumstances!)  How sad.
Also, I was thinking about video taping DH and SD when they get home so they can say what they did and what they got and how she enjoyed her trip.  Would this be admissable in court?  I am just thinking ahead, BM is going to go into court and tell them how traumitized SD was by all of this and we need to get less time then the already rediculously small amount of time that we have now.  So I am thinking that if it is admissable than we could show that she had a GREAT time?  Any thoughts?...

[MixedBag]

BM is "looking for a witness" by involving other people in this and in her eyes, the fact that Dad didn't return their daughter when BM thinks she's supposed to be returned.

Don't worry about the kidnapping and stuff -- had the EX threaten that one too and funny how no one ever materialized at my door.  Why?  because he doesn't have an order that says specifically when our child is supposed to be picked up and brought back.  Neither do you.

Video taping??  Of course it's admissable, but you have to ask yourself why bother.  IF BM says Daughter was traumatized, I'd be asking her "Did you see her and talk to her ON THAT DAY?"  AND I'd be asking "Why BM involves Daughter in the pick-up and return subject" which should be only between Dad and Mom particularly since there's a disagreement on the interpretation of the order.  To me it wouldn't matter how much "fun" the daughter had on Monday because that "fun" could be had on any day that she's with dad.  Get what I mean?

My EX had our son believing that he would miss Christmas because I didn't "return" him on Friday afternoon at 2:30 pm (EX's interpretation) and then pick up our son again at 5:15 pm the same day.  Now tell me, if I had done that, our son would be totally upset at getting to open his presents and then less than 3 hours later have to leave them for the weekend.  Who is the one out of line here in "tramautizing" our son?  He is -- and so is your EX.

Just trying to help you pick and choose what's important and what's not.

Oh yea, police, state police, and the sherrif are there to enforce CRIMINAL laws, not civil laws.  Our divorces are civil court rulings, not criminal court rulings.  99 times out of 100, they can't help unless your order is very very specific.  Then they can use the "kidnapping" laws to assist in getting the child returned to the custodial parents.  Those laws were put into place in case someone else takes your child and interferes with your custodial right as a parent.  Only some states are also applying it to enforce civil divorce rulings.  Think of this:  How is the cop supposed to know if the order that you're showing him is the most recent one on file?  Even IF it's totally specific down to the date and time....where as the laws of the state and stuff are different.  They remain constant until they are changed by congress.

[Sunshine1]

The 2 incidents we have had at our home where DH is the custodial parent, thePOLICE in our town enforced the court order letting BM take the boys.

1 time because (I am sure so not to traumatize them) they were already in her van and the cop said take it up with the court...it says she gets them.

2nd time is this last time she assaulted me and was charged with 5th degree assault and because it was the "agreed upon" time not CO time, they told my DH he would be arrested if he did not let the boys go with her.

We went immediately to get a TRO and presented it two hrs later, and she was almost arrested again because she wouldn't give up the boys.

The SHERIFF said he would just have to write up a report and she will be in contempt of the order....at that point I flipped and I read the order line by line to him and he told me his Sargeant ordered him to do this.  We asked him to get him on the line...we had them about 1/2 hr later.

Point of the matter is COPS, SHERIFFS, JUDGES, CS WORKERS, SOCIAL WORKERS, AND CHILD PROTECTION, will not and do not like to take children from their mothers, not even if they murdered someone. Ours  has documentation that she is crazy, and can't function without help and meds, but then had a Dr. write a letter that she was a model mother..I give up...our only solution for sanity is to move away.

Sorry this post was supposed to be for don'tunderstand..sorry about that :) got off on my own little tangent....

How did this evening go?  Did she show up or did she bluff?  Are you in jail til Monday?  LOL

[gipsy]

I went to a counselor and discussed similar issue's about the mother trying to terorise My son < The answer was ,
   Tell the child " Mommy can say's these things and she can think these things " " But I love you and I promise you i will not hurt you in any way , ,
  I met with  two counselors in total < . My expierience is " If you get involved in all this with the child it Makes them  all the more uncomfortable , And I was also advised to talk good about mom, So
 I have to say what I can that is good , Here's some Things I say ,
  " Mommy makes really good cookies etc" Mommy loves you and thats Ok " And you love Mom and thats fine with Me "
   Another thing I did with My son is " I said , See My hand . I have candy in there for you " And I open My hand and there is no candy "
  And I said " You can see I told you there was candy and there is not " And that is like when Mom Say's . I am going to hurt you "Dad doesn't love you " Etc ad Infinitum! And You can see There's no candy < and you can see I am not going to hurt you '
 SOOOO Kids are WAAAYYYY!! Smarter than you think ! He figured it out and one day he said " My mom Is a liar ! I can see nothing bad happens when I am with you ,
 Of course I avoided any negative 's about mom . And Reassured him  " I said " " Thats right I will not hurt you i love you "
    He has it figured out " My take is you have to let Them get the fact's straight with out talking bad about the mother " And always show up for the visits , And file contempt on the mother if she doesn't have the child there on time
   Something I did to the mother on similar drop off time issue ,
 She tried the same old crap . Telling me when to drop off . So I said Ok If thats what the paerneting plan says I'll be there " And guess what ? I knew thats not what the parenting plan say's . So she waited for a long time ' HAHAHAHAHA . And she hasn;t tried that one since ' Of course there was the typical nasty letter from her atty . And I skirted the Issue and got a couple letters out of it then answered as to what the parenting plan say's And she got charged from her atty and had to wait , My atty said "if thats what the letter say's for vacation then be there at that time "Also I don't use my atty for these expensive Vacation arrangements any more I write them Myself, And send it to her , She doesn't answer , I get it stamped by her atty as recieved , And send her another copy , And alway's have My pick up day on My visitation time , And My atty say's ." Take him on vacation"If she tries to cause trouble Just say ' She didn't object so I went ' And show the letter marked recieved from Her atty ,
  I noticed that there was not an exact drop off time in your post , But I would not worry " just Be there on the right day , You have to quit worrying about what she say's . And go By the court order !
 And Again , I don't talk to her , I just send communications to her atty'
 Get them stamped and I'm Done ' , I have found the best I can do with her personality type Is Not talk to her at all , Like at the transfers , I Hug My son and say Hello or good by . And walk away ,  
  Way Back she would try to talk and I would say  talk to your atty    'then get in the car and drive off ,
   The problem with her not giving you the child is Usuall, the police Don't get involved here , And I had to bring a video camera to the transfer , And put it on her , this put an end to her terrorising My son previous to My pick up time , I suggest this . It worked great for me , And of course she tried to cause trouble over the Taping , Her atty sent ANOTHER stupid lettter ,And My atty sent < A letter stateing . MR DAD Is taping for the purpose of refuting any claims your client has been prone to makeing about the transfers and the taping will continue as an effort to protect  Mr Dad from these claims :
    I ignore her and go by the parenting plan , And don't bother arguing , Just file contempt if she doesn't go By the ordered visitation schedual