Visitation plan requests

[HelpingHands]

AS a Sole custodial parent, do you have a right to ask for an itinerary of plans to travel out of state?

Here's the situation: Mom has made threats to 'just go ahead and kidnap dd". She has diagnosed short term memory loss.

She plans a trip from Va to Texas over the summer, supposedly driving the entire distance. Her new husband's license is suspended, though on visitations he has driven with our daughter in the vehicle.

What I would like from her is:

Name and complete address and phone number where she will be staying while in TX.
Dates of travel including dates she will be IN TX
Mode of transportation, flight numbers, airlines, vehicle, who's driving etc

Where she will be staying while not in TX. (she's moved 3 times since Last November)

Now it may seem overboard, but she can not remember 5 mins from the next sometimes. For our daughter's safety I would like an itinerary so if something happens I will know where to begin to look. As well as if she decides to play games and keep our daughter in TX.

My attorney sent a letter stating that that concluded his representation on this case.(case is closed) So I can not seek advice from him.

Any advice from someone who has been there??

Thank!

[Jade]

>AS a Sole custodial parent, do you have a right to ask for an
>itinerary of plans to travel out of state?
>
>Here's the situation: Mom has made threats to 'just go ahead
>and kidnap dd". She has diagnosed short term memory loss.
>
>She plans a trip from Va to Texas over the summer, supposedly
>driving the entire distance. Her new husband's license is
>suspended, though on visitations he has driven with our
>daughter in the vehicle.
>
>What I would like from her is:
>
>Name and complete address and phone number where she will be
>staying while in TX.
>Dates of travel including dates she will be IN TX
>Mode of transportation, flight numbers, airlines, vehicle,
>who's driving etc
>
>Where she will be staying while not in TX. (she's moved 3
>times since Last November)
>
>Now it may seem overboard, but she can not remember 5 mins
>from the next sometimes. For our daughter's safety I would
>like an itinerary so if something happens I will know where to
>begin to look. As well as if she decides to play games and
>keep our daughter in TX.
>
>My attorney sent a letter stating that that concluded his
>representation on this case.(case is closed) So I can not seek
>advice from him.
>
>Any advice from someone who has been there??
>
>Thank!

I have custody of my kids.  While visitation and going out of state is not addressed in the court order other than being mutually agreed upon (this only works if the 2 parties can co-operate and it is working for my ex and me).  I have stated that I just need to know where they are and contact info.  I also provide the same to him.   Out of the country, it is written permission.  

If it isn't addressed in the court order and you are arguing about it, address it the next time you go to court.

[mistoffolees]

>AS a Sole custodial parent, do you have a right to ask for an
>itinerary of plans to travel out of state?
>
>Here's the situation: Mom has made threats to 'just go ahead
>and kidnap dd". She has diagnosed short term memory loss.
>
>She plans a trip from Va to Texas over the summer, supposedly
>driving the entire distance. Her new husband's license is
>suspended, though on visitations he has driven with our
>daughter in the vehicle.
>
>What I would like from her is:
>
>Name and complete address and phone number where she will be
>staying while in TX.
>Dates of travel including dates she will be IN TX
>Mode of transportation, flight numbers, airlines, vehicle,
>who's driving etc
>
>Where she will be staying while not in TX. (she's moved 3
>times since Last November)
>
>Now it may seem overboard, but she can not remember 5 mins
>from the next sometimes. For our daughter's safety I would
>like an itinerary so if something happens I will know where to
>begin to look. As well as if she decides to play games and
>keep our daughter in TX.
>
>My attorney sent a letter stating that that concluded his
>representation on this case.(case is closed) So I can not seek
>advice from him.
>
>Any advice from someone who has been there??
>
>Thank!


Unless it's addressed in your agreement, it's iffy.

If you were joint custody, I'd say you didn't have a chance. Since it's sole custody, you could argue that your legal obligations to take care of the child require you to know where he/she is.

Jade is right about addressing it the next time you're in court (and I don't have the percentages, but would be wlling to bet that the percentage of parents who end up back in court is pretty high). And the fact that your attorney closed the case doesn't mean you can't use him. It just means you need to open a new case.

Here's what I'd do:

1. You didn't mention your child's age. If they're old enough, I'd buy them one of those pay-as-you-use cell phones with your number and 911 programmed in.

2. If the child's old enough, make sure they know at least 2 of your phone numbers and preferably your email address, too. If they're younger, make sure your contact information is stowed several places in their luggage (slipping a business card in the luggage pockets helps).

3. I'd bluff. I'd say that as legal guardian you're required to know where the child is and she can't leave until you have a copy of the itinerary (tell her in advance rather than just waiting until she picks the child up). If your ex makes an issue of it, I'm not sure I would stick to my guns very long, but it's clearly a reasonable request for a sole custodian to make and if you make it nicely in advance, I'd have to think the chances are good that you'd get it.

If you have proof that she threatened to kidnap your daughter, then you could probably push this a bit further, but if she's serious about that, any plan she gives you is meaningless. In that case, you have to rely on your daughter being able to contact you by cell phone or calling 911.

[HelpingHands]

Thank you for the response.

When she mentioned a trip to TX, I told her it was not a problem so long as I had the address and dates she was going to be in TX. This was back in March and I have yet to receive anything in writing. Her mother gets her for summer visitation the end of next week.

Our daughter is a new 8. She knows mine and my wife's cell phone numbers by heart. She was told by her mother that she would 'just go ahead and kidnap her' during one of the conversations. My lawyer is aware of the recorded conversation. The local police and her school personnel are as well(not that that helps during summer break)

Daughter understands that mommy has memory problems(has had to be her mother's caregiver for basically her entire life) She knows the summer visitations schedule and I think it's time my wife and I sit her down and explain to her what happens if there is an emergency or if mom doesn't bring her back on X date, etc.

I will be sure to put in her suitcase our complete address and contact in case of emergency numbers.

There are several things that will need to be re-addressed if this ever goes back to court. I should rephrase 'when' this goes back to court. This is the first time in 8 years, there hasn't been a court case filed by mom during the first 4-5 months of the year and I know it's coming.

Thanks again-

[mistoffolees]

I would send her a reminder in writing that the daughter is not going with her until you know the entire agenda. Tell her clearly that your daughter is not getting in the car with her unless she gives you the information. Given the recorded statement that she would kidnap the daughter, I can't see that you'd get in any trouble for taking that position. However, remember that it may not mean much. If she really intends to kidnap the daughter, the schedule she gives you will be meaningless, anyway.

You need to have a discussion with the daughter NOW about what to do. Explain how she can call collect if she has to from somewhere. 8 is old enough to understand. I would repeat the conversation enough that she'll remember it in an emergency.

I would also set up a schedule where you talk to the daughter every day or every other day. If you don't hear from her, then you call her mother's cell phone. If you STILL can't get in touch with her, I'd notify the authorities. Again, the recorded threats should be sufficient to make this a case of concern. If you have daily or every other day contact and she doesn't follow through, at least the trail will still be warm.

You should consider asking for supervised visitation. Given the mother's inability to remember anything and her threats to kidnap the child, you might have a chance. You'd need to talk it over with your attorney, however, to see if you could make a plausible case.

[HelpingHands]

Thank you Mist.

Court order allows for 3 phone contacts between certain hours of the night per week.

When this(threat of kidnapping) was brought to the attention of the authorities as well as the attorney, it was stated that all we can do is take precautions and there's nothing we can do 'until she is stupid enough to try it'.

Is the DNA data from the paternity testing back in 99 useful? I think I will go ahead and get hair samples and fingerprints to be extra safe?

I don't want to be on the end of a court battle because BM says I am denying her summer visitation or blackmailing or whatever by asking for the information. I simply want to take every precaution to ensure our daughter's safety.

She was ordered supervised visitations way back in 99 when I was given custody of our daughter when she was two months old. Bad thing about supervised visitations is that you have to ensure they are being supervised properly, which never happened in our case. Her mother and grandmother were supposed to supervise her at all times.

But this is now and she lives in different state than our daughter and I live. She may end up with supervised visitations if the behaviour continues(bad mouthing, drilling, threatening to kidnap, guilt trips, etc) (yes her therapist is aware and should be keeping records of all of this)

I recently was awarded full custody in Dec of this year, though I was granted primary residential with joint back in August(which she appealed and then was basically stripped of her custodial rights at the appeals hearing)

Thank you for the help. I will once again ask her to provide me with the information during her next phone contact and reiterate she will not be allowed to leave the state until all of the information is provided to me PRIOR to the start of the summer visitation.

[mistoffolees]

>Is the DNA data from the paternity testing back in 99 useful?
>I think I will go ahead and get hair samples and fingerprints
>to be extra safe?

The old DNA info should be OK, but since things get lost, your plan to update it is useful.

I would also make sure you have recent portrait-style photos. I'm always amazed when a kid disappears that some people can't provide a picture other than something that looks like it was taken 20 years ago with a Polaroid with a dirty lens.

But the authorities are correct - you can't PREVENT her from kidnapping your daughter. All you can do is be prepared if it happens - and it sounds like you're on top of that.

Fortunately, only a very tiny percentage of those threats ever happen. Most people in that situation realize that they would be in a huge amount of trouble if they tried.