what is a "real world" solution

[Ref]

SD is severely PASed. One of the basis of the PAS is BM's claim of being a victim of DH and the courts. She said DH keeps suing her to SD. Sd is now 16 and deciding not to talk to DH.

BM recently moved and refuses to tell DH where. He has requested her address since April. Once in a letter sent to her PO box that had a check in it and twice through tracked email. She got both the emails and the check was cashed.

BM also stated that she was moving again w. SD at the end of the summer. She will not tell him where. DH also asked what High school SD will be going to and she has not answered that either.

She is refusing all letters sent certified, fedex etc... Even gifts for SD. She is only getting the letters from her PO Box. CS is sent through the court, so that is no help either.

Sd is PASed to the point where she is not responding to emails either.

He would hate to go through court. He only has 670 days left and chances are, this will be drawn out that long. Not to mention, Sd already thinks he is severly litigious. (Went to mediation 1ce to spell out visitation form a prior order that just said "reasonable visitation" and went to court once for a temp reduction in CS and to defend against contempt and reduction in visitation that BM filed).

Any real world advice? He has no idea about summer school. He has no real idea of where they live or where they are planning to move. BM disconnected SD's cell phone.

Thanks
Ref

[notnew]

Live your lives and don't move. Don't change phone numbers and hope that one day soon (like in the next few years) that SD will get her head out of her mother's ass and think with her own mind and realize that she needs her dad.

You can worry yourselves sick trying to contact BM and bugging her over and over but you will not be able to force her behave like a reasonable, sane, human being. So, stop trying. If SD is choosing to take on the PAS behavior, then so be it. Those actions are only supporting her twisted representation of who the two of you are rather then proving to SD that you really care.

I'm dealing with a 13yo who is severly PAS'd and have seen her twice in the last year and talked to her about 5 times. The last time I saw her was March and spoke to her was last month but that was only because she needed something and I didn't pony up the money so I assume it will be a long while before I hear from her again. She must travel down the path her mother has laid and she has chosen to take. She has life lessons to learn that I never wanted her to be exposed to. When she is ready to have a relationship with me again, I will be there for her, but I refuse to contribute to the lifestyle she is now living and will not particpate or appear to condone it.

In the meantime, make the most of your relationship together. Do some fun stuff together. It's no use in you being miserable because BM is a creep and SD is being a brat.

It's not easy. We worry about my child all the time. She is never far from our thoughts. It's like we are putting the wisdom prayer into practice.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

[mistoffolees]

You could always hire a PI to find out where they are, but it's not likely to do any good. The end result is that you'll know where the SD is, but she still won't speak to you.

If you're not going to force the issue on visitation (I'm not sure you can for a 16 year old, anyway), then you don't have much choice. At some point, you send the SD a letter saying you're sorry she's been dragged into this,  and that your door is always open to her. Then move on.

I married my ex 15 years ago when her two daughters were very young and we basically raised them (they spent a couple weeks a year with their father at most). In spite of giving them lots of love and every financial benefit they could want, when I divorced their mother, they stopped speaking to me at all. I continued sending them checks for holidays (which they promptly cashed), but not even an email to say thank you (actually, I got one email from one of them but when I responded, she went running to her mother and won't speak to me again.  I would have thought that college age kids would have some resistance to PAS, but I guess not. Sure, it hurts, but at some point you have to let go.

[MixedBag]

the old high school will have to send the records to the new high school.

And then they will be able to tell you where she is registered.

Then the new school will share (hopefully) the rest of the information once you provide the "joint custody" order that says you have that right.

Get yourself a copy of the cancelled check that she cashed.

A bank can decipher (well maybe) which bank it was cashed at and possibly her account number there.

Continue to send stuff for SD to the P.O. box and let the stuff accumulate, unopened when it's returned.  That was one of the key pieces of "evidence" EX#3 showed his girls.

As for litigation -- you know -- if you have the time, I'd take SD down to the courthouse, and pull your file.  Then let her sit and read and see what the truth is.

[Sherry1]

just required to go to his old high school and get a transcript of grades and shot records.  Old HS had no idea where he was going to school at and they didn't care.  If the BM does the same thing we did then there would be no way to track where the kid is going to school

[hagatha]

Ref,

Several years ago we were also dealing with a severly PAS's child. It was horrible and there were so many times DH just wanted to give up. But he didn't.

We were forced to file contempt charges on the average of every 4-6 months for over 5 yrs. We did this until a judge told my DH to stop because he was fighting for a kid that didn't deserve his love and attention.

The thing that made the biggest difference was that DH showed up for visitation every time without fail. No matter what her mother told her, she knew he would be there even if/when she told him to go away.

Eventually, she grew a brain and realized she was being lied to by mom and came back. she is now an intgrical part of our family and is even Godmother to my oldest grand daughter.

SO my advise is file contempt and get the address and show up for visits. Even if you get turned away at the door she will know you were there and that is what will make a difference when She is old enough to grow a brain.

The Witch

Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!!!

[Ref]

Ours is a very long distance situation, so there is no showing up at the door. All we have is that SD gets on the plane. She specifically said she would not.

At this point, I am not sure what contempt charges will do. BM will not change. She has been told by the court to comply. She knows the order because she makes DH follow it to the letter, but in her head, even the things that specifically state are rules the custodial has to follow don't apply to her. She thinks if she doesn't like it, then it doesn't apply. This is true with her work, her family everything. If she doesn't like it, it doesn't apply to her. Shoot, she disowned every single person in her family except SD. She has been several times for yelling at customers. She just doesn't care. The only punishment she would get out of contempt charge is having to pay some of her legal fees. Even in the last court, the judge said that normally DH would have to pay all her fees because of her financial situation, but because she was blatently wrong, he would make her pay half. That still stuck us with half of her bills, all of ours and our travel expenses.

We have less than 2 years left. DH is heartbroken and tired. I am too. It takes all his strength to email SD to tell her he loves her and misses her. At this point SD is PASed to the point where everything he says is a lie and her mom always tells the truth. SD told me that to my face. I wish she could see how wrong she is.

I don't think we can do court again. 1. it doesn't produce any results except to make us poorer and more stressed and to slap BM on the wrist. 2. It only supports BM's claim that DH is litigious and she is the victim of his "abuse".

DH will email SD to tell her that he would like to see her during the times they are supposed to. When/if he gets a phone number, he will call her to invite her.

All the letters and presents that have been sent back to us, we are collecting in her room in our home fo rher to collect when she gets older.

I am just extremely saddened for SD and DH.

Thanks for your help
Ref

[mistoffolees]

>The thing that made the biggest difference was that DH showed
>up for visitation every time without fail. No matter what her
>mother told her, she knew he would be there even if/when she
>told him to go away.

All I can say is that DH deserves a medal or something. That's awfully hard to do with continual rejection month after month after month - especially without losing one's temper.

Congratulations on the outcome.

[MixedBag]

Dad showed up on her door step to pick up the SD and bring her back down?

EX#3 did this once (and yes, cross country), and it took the wind right out of BM's sails....

[Ref]

of when we went all the way to Florida and Dh went to pick up SD with a huge SpongeBob doll under his arm. He knocked on the door and noone answered. The time was agreed to and he called about 1/2 hour earlier and left a message that he was on his way. He knocked again and the curtains parted and quickly closed again. We could hear someone in the apartment.

We go back down to the car and DH calls BM on his cell. Noone answers the phone. DH leaves another message saying that he is there to pick up SD and to please answer the door. BM's neighbor/lover was on his cordless staring at out car and looking up at her door.

DH drove around the block to cool off and then we parked again. A woman carrying groceries went up to BM's apartment and knocked onthe door. The door opened and the woman quickly ducked inside. The neighbor spy was back on the lawn with his phone in his hand.

We didn't want any real confrontation so we went to the courthouse to see what needed to be done to file charges. When we got there, DH's phone rang. It was SD. She asked him where he was.

He looked like he was an ass because BM told her he would be there 3 hours after they agreed. It looked like he was late to SD.

When we went to pick her up BM opened the door maybe 18 inches. All I could see was her arm holding the door cracks. SD went under her arm to leave. She had a couple of bags so she ducked under BM's arm a few times.

This was the point that DH felt he needed the court to intervene. She had pulled stuff before but this was the last straw. A couple of months later DH asked the court to clarify the visitation order to have times and locations instead of the "reasonable" verbage. After that PAS went full steam and it has been downhill since then.

In short. BM wont answer the door. Sd will do as her mom wants. Dh will be hurt and we will have spent $$$ to go to one of the crappiest towns EVER to have our hearts broken. I imagine that it would only strenthen SD's resolve that it is She and BM against the world.

Thanks for all of your help. I am not sure the answer. I guess we are in a wait and see mode.

Ref