Visitation for summer

[zipsman03]

Today, I spoke with my ex about final plans for sons visit, It did not go as planned. I had spoken with her several weeks ago about summer , and had come to an agreement that upon her and her family returning from there vacation she'd put my boy on a plane to visit me in S dakota..he's in Ohio. Well I called, told her that I purchased his ticket and where he needed to be. She tells me that because I am contesting the support increase she has changed her mind about him coming here and as for the ticket "its my loss" is what she said. I am to the point with this is that if I see him good, If not.. one day he will decide on his own what he wants to do. My wife and daughter nor I dont deserve the rollercoaster she puts us on . I pay ontime always have and will but I am washing my hands. And I refuse to pay an attorney every time she has a mood swing.

[mistoffolees]

I don't see any question. Are you looking for advice or just venting? Either one is OK, I just wanted to make sure you weren't looking for something and no one can tell.

If you're looking for advice, you'll need to post exactly what your divorce decree says about custody as well as what it says about visitation (particularly with respect to the summer). In general, any agreements you make with her are irrelevant - the only thing that matters is the divorce decree / custody plan. If she's in violation of that, you have the right to file for contempt (although, as you've indicated, this may or may not be worth the expense).

The only other comment I have is that if your decree is NOT clear on visitation, you might want to consider clarifying it as part of the support hearing that you're already paying for.

[zipsman03]

Sorry about the rant, my divorce decree did not address out of state visitation I was near him at the time so I got the standard deal. Well last night I was forced to cancel the ticket. As far as clarifying visitation thats how most of this was started we decided last summer that we needed something in writing that was clear to remove input  from the new spouses. So thats what I am trying to accomplish, but I am being accused of harrassing her....I think....not sure since she is under the impression that a judge needs to decides whats in our sons best interest. My question is can I get this done with a judge without being in court?

[notnew]

Call her and tell her that you are filing for contempt. Remind her that support and visitation are separate issues in the courts eyes. Let her know that you will be asking the court to order her to refund all your costs, including your attorney fees in taking her to court for contempt. She may give in. If not, follow through. She is being a witch.

I understand the position you are in regarding your son, but in reality, he cannot make any choices for himself now. If he cannot take himself to the airport, then he cannot make a choice for himself. He also is under her control as she is the custodial parent. She is the driving force here. Don't let your frustration with her bleed onto  your son. It will only further damage what relationship you may have.

Speaking to her is not enough. You MUST send a certified, return receipt requested letter following up with a rundown of the conversation for the record. If she refuses to sign for the letters, then this is your proof that she failed to adequately communicate.

You MUST document and follow through via proper procedures before you will have a leg to stand on in court. What does your order say regarding summer visitation? The order is the tool of enforcement. Use it wisely.

[notnew]

No. You must file for a modification since the conditions have changed since the original order was put in place. You need to do this asap to provide you with an enforceable visitation agreement. Right now, you've got nothing and agreements made between you and her are not enforceable.

[awaitingjustice]

You need to get the conditions straightened out- right away- this will never end, if it has begun- and as long as you have no order- and she has child living with her- all enforcement will be in her favor and you will be forced to 'explain' why you 'deserted' your child.  (even if this is not the case!)

Do not cancel that ticket- you submit it to court - rather- when child no shows the flight you submit it , along with WRITTEN letters showing you notified her of date/time of flight, and show her willful disregard for the courts intent (visitation)  You ask for full reimbursement and COMPENSATORY time with your child- (In my case mother refused to write down flight info- refused to answer fone- and had child call and say I don't want to come- COURT ordered her to repay all monies, plus cost and full additional 4 weeks the following summer!)  It does not have to be a case of her controlling your child's future- but get this all straightened out right away--- and ALWAYS remember child support/arrears/ etc etc  ARE and ALWAYS SHOULD be seperate issues from visitation!   You can no more refuse to pay if you do not see child then she can refuse you visitation if you do not pay!  

Good Luck-

[mistoffolees]

You can't get a judge to do anything about it without going to court. However, you CAN limit the damage by making your request very specific so that the hearing is limited to one question: Can you have permission to take the child out of state? If you limit it to that, it will probably go smoothly and with minimum of trouble. The more you add in (trying to change visitation terms, for example, or - even worse - trying to change custody), the more likely it is to become a full blown war.

Before doing anything (even cancelling the ticket), you should find out what the default is in your state. Every state has some guidelines of what is considered acceptable if they are not addressed in the decree. (Unfortunately, some times they're not written down but are simply judicial precedent).

There are two possibilities:
State routinely allows out of state visitation unless forbidden by agreement - if that's the case, then your position is strong and you could even argue that she's in contempt. If you do have to go to court for clarification, you could make the argument that she should pay your legal fees (I can't say that you'd win, but it's a plausible argument).

State routinely do NOT allow out of state visitation unless specifically permitted by the decree. If that's the case, you have a tougher battle. I'd probably go ahead and cancel the ticket and file for a modification - but that's just me, not legal advice to you.

I don't know for sure, but it seems to me (based on limited experience with friends and relatives who are divorced) that the first possibility (state routinely allows out of state unless specifically forbidden) is probably more common.

[awaitingjustice]

The statement:

You MUST send a certified, return receipt requested letter following up with a rundown of the conversation for the record. If she refuses to sign for the letters, then this is your proof that she failed to adequately communicate.


IS soooo true!  The more documentation you have, the easier it is to validate your claims.(Otherwise it is all he said/she said).

I have at least 30 returned envelopes- STILL sealed- as court record now to validate my claim that CP refuses to communicate.  This went a long way to showing the judge I was not making false allegations.

Dot your i's and cross your t's.  

If you are not already- you must- and I cannot stress this enough- you must make record of every interaction you have with this person- use a calendar or EXCEL or WORD- but everyday- make entry- like a journal- to say DDMMMYY- I called CP and call was reg call  DDMMMYY- CP called me call was reg call discussed after school program DDMMMYYY- I called child and reg call, CP asked to speak to me and proceeded to talk to me in a disrespectful manner in front of child and discuss items of adult concern, etc etc etc

Also include DDMMMYY- I sent CP certified letter- USPS#123456789 at 4:42 pm from XYZ Post office

etc etc

All of this will allow you to have a timely record of events, we all know that memory can fade a situation and we all have an ability to recall things the way we 'would like them to be'

When you take careful notes- and document every interaction- you establish a record, which in many cases can 'possibly' be used in court but more importantly can ALLOW you to read over the events and look at the BIG PICTURE and see if there is a pattern, a trigger, or a behavioral issue...This can also allow you to see if you are revisiting over and over the same subjects with no resolution, or at same time of year- i.e. does CP always bring up certain issues in late FEB when you are in the midst of making plans for Spring Break visitation, or in mid MAY when summer is just around the corner...

So in summary-

1- keep records
2- follow every letter of protocol as to how to communicate and record that communication by way of the USPS (be careful FEDEX overnight- IS NOT treated in most courts the same as USPS- check your laws)
3- get your decree cleared up- and as one lawyer told me- to change custody is a huge undertaking that a court will NOT enter into lightly- do all of this other work first and UNLESS your child is in IMMINENT THREAT of INJURUY/HARM do not believe for one minute that any judge is going to just SWITCH custody, because the CP did you wrong, or did not follow court orders--- 10, 20, 30 contempts and often no order to change would take place....GET YOUR DECREEE CONDITIONS spelled out- there are some good suggestions on this website and others for how to do so-

Keep the FAITH- and GOOD LUCK!  

Ultimately this is about saying to your child I NEVER GAVE UP ON YOU- despite the roadblocks others placed in my way I never gave up-

They will grow into adulthood one day and they will understand- you have to have faith in that fact.

Good Luck

[Jade]

>Today, I spoke with my ex about final plans for sons visit,
>It did not go as planned. I had spoken with her several weeks
>ago about summer , and had come to an agreement that upon her
>and her family returning from there vacation she'd put my boy
>on a plane to visit me in S dakota..he's in Ohio. Well I
>called, told her that I purchased his ticket and where he
>needed to be. She tells me that because I am contesting the
>support increase she has changed her mind about him coming
>here and as for the ticket "its my loss" is what she said. I
>am to the point with this is that if I see him good, If not..
>one day he will decide on his own what he wants to do. My wife
>and daughter nor I dont deserve the rollercoaster she puts us
>on . I pay ontime always have and will but I am washing my
>hands. And I refuse to pay an attorney every time she has a
>mood swing.


What about the son that you are giving up on?  If you wash your hands, you can't blame it on the mother.  

BTW, you CAN file contempt of court charges against the mother if she doesn't send your son AND ask her to reimburse you for the plane ticket.  AND ask that she pays for the plane ticket for the visit that the court will order for this summer.