Are dh and I wrong on this issue?????

[thairagain]

Dh gained custody of 13 yr old sd June 2003.  The reason was because bm is an alcoholic and the bm's husband does/did drugs (actually grew his own plant).  Visitation for the bm was very general saying basically "reasonable visitation to be agreed upon by bm and dh".  Sd originally was very adamant that she didn't want to visit w/ bm "one on one"; she felt reasonably comfortable visiting her mother instead on Sunday's at sd's maternal grandmother's house.  Understandably so, sd has begun expressing an interest in visiting her mother recently for 2-3 hour periods only as long as it is a public environment such as lunch or dinner or putt-putt.  She is still adamant that she does not want to visit bm through overnight's and absolutely DOES NOT want to visit bm's husband.

Here is the problem..... dh and I feel that plans for these visitation periods should be discussed between dh and bm.  But bm REFUSES to speak with dh.  About 2 weeks ago sd had her first "one on one" visit with her mother.  Prior to the visit, sd and bm discussed the p/u time and drop off time amongst themselves; once the two of them determined the details, sd asked dh if it was okay.  In accordance, with the court order (to be agreed upon by bm and dh), dh asked to speak w/ bm, who was on the phone, to confirm the details.  As soon as sd handed the phone to dh, the bm screamed "What the F*!@ do you want to speak with me for?????!!!!!"  Dh was floored!  As calmly as he could, he told her that the details needed to be discussed/confirmed between the two parents, him and the bm, and not sd and bm.  She was still beligerant and repeated several times that she and dh had nothing to discuss since she and sd had already worked everything out.  Dh was finally able to get her to confirm the details and therefore allowed the visitation.  The bm was about 45 minutes late picking sd up and then returned about 30 minutes late, even though dh had adjusted the drop off time due to her tardiness.  SD had a good time with her mother despite the bm's rudeness to dh; thank God.

A few days ago, bm called sd and asked if they could visit again on bm's b-day (April 4th).  Sd said that she wanted to.  The only reason we know this is through second hand information from sd.  Bm has not discussed it with dh, and we fear that she will do the same thing as last time by not discussing it with him.  Should we insist that the bm discuss these details with dh prior to the visit or are we being too controlling?  And if we should insist upon the bm discussing it with dh, should we be proactive and call bm about it or send her a letter or something?  Or should we let her hang herself by not complying with the court order by discussing it with dh?

We don't want to come across as antagonizing bm and ruin the possibility of sd visiting w/ bm (especially on her bday), over a technicality.........what should we do???

I'm sooooo confused!!!

thair

[nosonew]

How about this.  BM and SD discuss it, then BM sends DH an email to confirm plans, with the plan laid out.  He emails back yes, no, or suggested changes.  He shows SD her email, his email so she is informed.  At 13, she is old enough to determine if she wants to see her mother, when and how often in my opinion.  

DH does need to know the plans, and this would put everything in writing, and make sure all agree.  What do you think?

[thairagain]

Bm...as far as we know...doesn't have internet.  

Good idea, otherwise, though...:)

[nosonew]

Bummer.  Then how about this.  You have dh send her a letter, stating he will go along with her wishes, unless and until, there are discrepancies in the plan.  If that occurs, then she needs to set aside any negative feelings for dh and discuss these issues in a non-emotional, non-threatening manner via phone, email, or letter for future visits. Good luck!

[dsm]

Golly it's difficult to deal rationally with a person who so chooses to be irrational!!!!!!

Okay, I think that you and your DH need to figure out what works for you and your house.  Granted, the order says for the time to be reasonable and agreed upon by bm and dh.  And, I agree - in *normal* situations, this would be the best thing.  Now, how does your SD do with this kind of thing - is she strong enough to stand up to her mom if/when the situation arises that there is a conflict in her mom's request for time with her?  So far, it sounds like the times have happened to work out well with y'all's schedules - but it's bound to happen that school, friends, etc will interfere.  And of course, the time with her mom is important, but so are plans that she has, and that y'all have as a family.  

I'm rambling here, but with as much of a hot button as it seems to be that she has with dealing with your DH, maybe it is okay to empower your SD to make the plans with her mom and to keep y'all informed.  But if you do not think that she is strong enough, or that her mom would/will try to manipulate things, then I think you should try to keep the details between bm and dh, as much as it will cause drama and screaming.

My SD is 14, and we've had custody of her for 2 years now.  Her mom definitely tries to go around the order and get SD in the middle of things - but she tells SD one thing and DH another - in order to cause drama here.  It's taken awhile, but SD is finally coming around to understand that in her case, her dad (and I when necessary) will take care of the details and to tell her mom 'I don't know, check with Dad'.  And oh my, the number of melo-dramatic emails, phone calls, etc that have come into our house.....to go back and read some of them it really can be quite comical - altho at the time was very stressful.  If y'all choose to go the route of trying to have the details worked out with bm and dh, then make sure that your DH, you, and your SD have built up some tough skin - and that you are prepared for bm to pull a 2-year-old style of temper tantrum and refuse to spend time with your SD.  Try to keep it businesslike - and non-emotional.  Easier said than done.  On the flip side - if y'all choose to let things slide a bit, come up with some boundaries for your SD where she is able to know what she can agree with and what she cannot - like if her mom suggests to go to the waterpark for the day, that's probably okay.  But if she suggests to go away just the 2 of them for the weekend, then that's where your SD needs to be able to say that she (BM) should talk with your DH about it.

JMHO  

[tulip]

DH, as the girl's father, has every right to expect bm to consult him before making plans with their daughter. But why would he want to talk to her if she is going to treat him like that.

Let her hang herself? What does that mean? DH has custody of her, so is he trying to take away the little visitation she has? Sounds like sd is already responsible enough to know that her mom has some problems and WANTS limited time with her, but sd does deserve to have some time with her mom.

I would tell bm that if she is going to make plans with sd, she has to notify dh, in writing of her intent, with details of p/u and d/o times and where they will be going. Then dh can discuss it with sd.

[rdhdinwi]

... you don't communicate these kinds of issues directly to us, then these communications are not recognized.  If you need to change the visitation or whatever, then you call us direct and make the plans with us, not through the kids or our spouses.  That's how is it is stated in the CO.  My X is pretty good about this but my DH's hasn't always been but she's finally gotten the idea.  If she doesn't talk to DH about these things directly, its a not a deal.  I say stick to your guns, the kids should not be involved in these kinds of things.

Rd

[sweetnsad]

I totally agree...the kids shouldn't be put in the middle of their own visitation schedules with the NCP.  It should be discussed and determined between the parents.  
BM has to start dealing with your DH directly, if for no one else, but for her daughter.  It gives off bad vibes for the daughter to be the liason.  It's not fair to her.

[lucky]

however, we've told the skids (when pbfh tells them to tell us) something along the line of "We'll let you know what's going on as soon as your Mom contacts us about it."  

On occasion we've had to say "I'm sorry, but your mom didn't let us know ahead of time and we have plans..."

Pbfh is starting to get the picture, unfortunately, that means that she WON'T plan anything anymore that may cross over into our time because she refuses to talk to dh -- unless the kids do something wrong on her time and she wants to pass the buck on discipline/parenting.

[tulip]

My skids bm has been making plans that interfere with dh's parenting time, and she instructs to kids not to tell him. We have explained to the kids that when somebody tells them not to tell dad, it's lying and they shouldn't go along with it. Now they are caught in the middle. If they tell dh the truth, they get in trouble with bm. If they don't, they get in trouble with him for lying. They don't know what to do.