Question on Discipline

[crayon]

ok,  lately 6 yr old SD has been acting nasty toward me.  i have a strong feeling that she has been exposed to adult conversation when at home with BM that i am a horrible ogre for being with her daddy instead of BM.  (they are not divorced yet; separated for a year)  

on one of our outings, SD who last week told on other "bad kids" becaue they were throwing stones at the playground, threw stones at me deliberately.  BF saw this immediately and gave SD quite a tongue lashing.  as we dropped off SKs (3),  SD ran in to tell BM and then BM called up BF later threatening him with no visitation because he scared SD.  

now mind you, BM has been getting the royal treatment from BF.  namely for the last year, she's been getting his entire paycheck save 0-70 bucks a week.  plus all "out of pocket expenses"

advise please?

[dontunderstand]

Honestly, I think that she has to prove some serious allagations for court to withhold visitation.  When BM filed RO on me (to keep her from BF because "SD is afraid of her, she scares her."  Court said...And an example...uuuggghhh??? She had none.  RO was dismissed and said w/o the context of the conversation from SD there was no evidence other than BM's mouth.  
Think about her telling the court, he shouldn't get visitation.  Why? She is afraid of BF becasue he gave her a stong tongue lashing.  How stupid does she sound...she would be laughed out of court.

[dsm]

I'd say that you are right on that this 6yo child is being subjected to negative words about you.   That is not fair to the child and is also not fair to you.  You are the target right now for the angst of the BM.  As hard as I know it will be, my advice is for you to remove yourself as a possible target as much as possible.  How often do the kids see your BF?  He should gather the kids together the next time - without you in the room - and have a good talk about expectations and how to treat people.   I assume there is a visitation order in place?  If so, let the BM blow her chunks and encourage your BF to see his kids as often as he can.  She'll be in contempt of court order if she does that - and she can try to explain to the judge at the next status hearing for the divorce that she isn't allowing visitation because your BF disciplined their child for acting rudely toward another person.  When I say remove yourself as target - lie low for a bit - let your BF have time alone with the kids and you do your own thing.  Understand that the kids are probably hearing things along the lines of you stealing their dad away from the family, you wanting to replace their mom, etc.  Being there for every visitation and being a part of every time they are with their dad will in part give credence to the twisted words they are hearing - can you see that?  Let things get through the divorce, let the kids get settled into their routine, let your BF set the expectations for them that they have a home with him that is outside of their home with their mom - that it is okay to have a good time with their mom just like it is okay to have a good time with him and that when he includes other people (family, friends, neighbors) that it is okay to have a good time with them as well (that's where you get brought into the conversation - that you are a friend of their dad's - you are not there to be a replacement for their mom).  And it will take several repeatings of this same conversation because they are going to take that back to their mom's house and try to tell her that they had a good time with dad (and you if you are there for part of it) and their mom will probably shoot it down every chance she gets.  And for that, part of it is their mom being human - divorce is a loss and she probably does not want or need to hear about how your BF is happy and moving on - it hurts her.  So also understand that it is going to take time to get through to the kids.  Now, when BM calls for something as absurd as she did in your post, your BF needs to calmly diffuse it and not get into a heated argument with her - do NOT fuel her fire.  She is free to have her opinion but that doesn't mean that your BF has to do as she wishes either.  

Where are things in the divorce proceedings?  
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dsm - 34
DH - 38
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 2
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2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[crayon]

well they have been separated for a little over a year now.  BM is getting about 85-100% of BF's paycheck because he signed a very poorly written, very lopsided "mediation agreement" just to get BM out of his hair.

BM is getting a free ride on BF's medical/dental as well AND BF's employment situation has been less than stable w/ 2 lay offs so far this year.  BM still expects $300 a week + "out of pocket expenses" and full medical/dental even though BF has been laid off.  BF usually makes about $10-$12 an hour.

BM obviously is in NO hurry to get the DIY divorce papers filed (i filled them out according to the mediation agreement as she couldn't be bothered) as she would lose med/dental coverage when divorce becomes finalized.  BF does not want to use any attorneys and is dead set against them.

i respect BM's opinion, but frankly, their marriage has been going down hill for the last 8 years and BM had threatened to leave BF because he was asking "too often" for "marital priv.  this was no surprise to either of them.  BM just chose to ignore the fact that BF was terribly unhappy;  BM is of the "my way or the highway" set.  As long as she had her delusional SAHM white picket fence world, then everything was fine.

SKs absolutely adored me up until now.  the 8 yr old SS is old enough to disregard any negative talk coming from either BM or her friends/relatives and the 2 yr old SS LOVES daddy and has no qualms with me as he is too young (yet).

6 yr old SD used to adore me, sit in my lap, play and read stories and she still has moments of that, BUT because BM is a drama queen and thrives on turmoil, she has only hurt her daughter IMHO.

[dsm]

And that will spell turmoil for awhile for the two of you.  Also sounds to me that your BF needs to at least take a free consultation with a lawyer to make sure that the divorce is set.  And with things being up in the air and recent layoff situations the way they are, he should at the very least be petitioning to modify the mediation agreement.  The ball could get rolling from his end of things too.

Don't bet that the 8yo is too old to be swayed by negative talk.....if there is enough of it, and there is enough of situations that can be twisted, anyone (even 30 or 40 yo) can be swayed.

First thing is to set the kids straight that they have two homes and things will not be the same for rules and what-not in both homes.  At the same time, take steps to get the ball rolling so that there can be opportunity for closure and an end in sight for the marriage.  Otherwise, it will just continue to go on and on.  And you'll be caught in the middle.
==============================================================================

dsm - 34
DH - 38
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 2
------------------
2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[flewwellin]

First I'd pay no more money than what is ordered for child support.  

Second I'd have a long talk with the child myself if put in that position.  It's great that your boyfriend/husband gave her a tongue lashing.  As long as he didn't threaten her with bodily harm (and he probably didn't) then the BM hasn't got a leg to stand on.

[crayon]

that's the big issue,  BF refuses to pay CS only because they have mutual debt (however, this "mutual debt" is in BM's name only whereas their horrible MA states that debt in BF's name only is BF's sole responsibility.  WTF???)  i have explained to BF that i am financially drowning at this point.  he keeps on talking about possible OT and side jobs which, at the moment have failed to materialize.  

BF has brought in several debts and one car payment after he dumped the '94 caravan that was dying.  BF had purchased a 02 caravan for BM and kids w/ full warranty shortly before they broke up so that BM would be all set up when he left.  however, when BM saw that the car payment was in BF's name only, she dumped it back on him (or rather me); so now i have 2 car payments as well as everything else to pay (mortgage, etc.)  i do have full use of both vehicles. my own '95 honda SUV i am trying to sell.

our commuting/gas expenses are outrageous now with both of our workplaces 45 minutes one way AND the SKs living 45 minutes one way.  BM has little to no commuting expenses as she "works" 5 minutes away from home.  she bought a catering biz w/ kid's college fund that BF got from being injured on the job.  she's hardly ever at the catering biz and any vehicle expenses she can write off.  

BM has broken several stipulations in this MA, however BF insists on "taking the high road" and paying her the $300 weekly plus medical and extra expenses.   at this point, i'm puzzled as to why he doesn't think our life and financial situation is not as important as his STBXs.  when i mention that BF should start the divorce ball rolling he is extremely hesitant.   i think he is afraid that BM will make it even harder for him if he pulls the plug on her fantasy world.

[kitten]

>BM just chose to
>ignore the fact that BF was terribly unhappy;  BM is of the
>"my way or the highway" set.  As long as she had her
>delusional SAHM white picket fence world, then everything was
>fine.

Buckle up, it's going to be a bumpy ride.  BF NEEDS to get a father's advocate attorney NOW.  He must stay one step ahead of BM.  She will destroy him, the children AND you.  AND it will all be done legally.  My BF and I have been living this hell for 2 years.  He has not seen his children for 8 months and our relationship was almost destroyed.  Good luck to you.

[flewwellin]

what this sounds like is you have a man that doesn't really want to leave his ex.  It sounds like he is still way too involved with her to be involved with someone else.  I hate to say it but it sounds like he is using you as a crutch only long enough to either financially ruin you and move on or he doesn't think his life is worth living and thus means your life together isn't worth anything.  As hard as it may be I'd leave his butt floundering on his own so that maybe he will waken up and realize that you and his relationship with you is more important than his ex's.    He doesn't sound like he's working very hard at helping you with the bills and is mooching off of you, also "taking the high road" is fine and dandy if you can afford to pay your own bills also.   Being that he s extremely hesitant to get the divorce ball rolling I'd be asking myself and him why exactly is that?  I don't think he's worried about making it even harder on him I think he's worried he might loose her and doesn't really want to be separated from her.


Ask yourself one question..... Is this where you want to be in one year or 3 or 5 or 10?  If you can't say yes I'd take a long hard look at what is going on and give this man an ultimatum. (I'm not a big fan of ultimatums but it sounds like your options have run out.)

Good luck and keep us posted on what's going on.

[crayon]

that's the wild thing.  there's no love lost between BF and BM.  BF is civil toward her, but gets very angry when BM turns hostile or snippy.  

he is VERY VERY involved w/ the kids.  i've never seen a man take such a keen interest in his children; i think he is trying to make up for the bad childhood that he had.

most men are content with EOW.  but when BF and BM first separated and he wasn't seeing his kids for the first week, he sobbed uncontrollably for about 2 weeks straight.  it was very strange because:  1.  i felt entirely helpless but tried to console him (he was unconsolable)

2.  he is such a strong, powerfully built man and to see him sob like that was very very awkward indeed.  i felt really bad for him but there was nothing i could do.

he then was making arrangements to go there every night to tuck them in for bed (about 45 minutes one way drive).  then she demanded that he not enter the house after about 6 mos into the separation.  after that BM "allowed" BF to bring kids over to my house and all was well until about the last 2 mos, where SD was showing off and acting malicious, saying stuff to me that only an adult would say, like "you wear bad girl's underwear" and "zip your lip."