Stepmoms - have you helped your dh file pro se....

[dipper]

Hi all, I know some of you stepmoms have been very proactive in helping your dh assert his rights.  My question right now is that dh's custody case failed, we are considering a pro se appeal.  I was never impressed with dh's lawyer and feel he could have been way more effective in court.  However, I still feel the judge was very prejudiced and erred numerous times in applying the law and codes of certain situations.

I had an appt. with dh's lawyer to discuss an appeal, which the lawyer says he feels we can win.  However,  his office made me two different appts. today and cancelled both......and I have talken all day off of work.  I cant go in - they had to get a replacement for me....I dont think the lawyer did the work for the money he was paid the last time....

So, where should I turn to learn how to prepare a brief to appeal?

Do you file the appeal brief with your appeal filing?

Do you actually go before the judges - or do they just look at the paperwork?


How do we, as pro se litigants, get our hands on the conclusions and findings of the judge.........and the actual transcripts?

[jilly]

An appeal is NOT something you want to do Pro Se.  Just my opinion.

[MixedBag]

you have a certain amount of time in which to file a notice that you want to appeal.

each state as rules of their supreme court that must be followed, so you gotta start searching on line to find those.

That source should tell you the timing and what to file etc...

As far as I know, nope, you do not necessarily go before a Supreme Court Judge for an appeal.  Although some cases are scheduled for "oral arguments"

You have to hire a certified transcriptionist to submit a certified record of what happened in court.

This advice is based on our experience in dealing with DH's case which is under appeal with the state court.

It's a fairly complicated process and if you don't do the paperwork right, that will be enough to get your appeal denied.

Your appeal is also supposed to be based on the fact that the judge didn't follow the law -- as opposed to "I don't agree with the decision."  You'll have to basically cite case law that happened previously to support your opinion.

There is one state with a "pilot" program in place right now to make it easier for pro se litigants to file appeals and it expires in our state on June 1st I believe.  But that's fairly unique......

I suggest you search Soc's page for other people who have asked similar questions about appealing their situation and what it takes.  Soc's covered this once or twice before....

[reellis527]

I've never helped dh do an appeal.  I do know that all you have to do is request the transcript, in my state you get a cd with the recording on it.  I was told before that you can file paperwork to go in front of a judge instead of a master of the courts (presuming you didn't have a judge the first time).  I think the best thing for you all to do may be to wait.  Document everything, every call, what it was in reference to, welfare of the child, everything.  That is going to help you the most when your dh can intelligently and immediately give dates in incidents and refer specific things that have occured.

I was trying to help the best I could because you didn't state why he wanted custody or whatever....

[reellis527]

I've never helped dh do an appeal.  I do know that all you have to do is request the transcript, in my state you get a cd with the recording on it.  I was told before that you can file paperwork to go in front of a judge instead of a master of the courts (presuming you didn't have a judge the first time).  I think the best thing for you all to do may be to wait.  Document everything, every call, what it was in reference to, welfare of the child, everything.  That is going to help you the most when your dh can intelligently and immediately give dates in incidents and refer specific things that have occured.

I was trying to help the best I could because you didn't state why he wanted custody or whatever....

[MixedBag]

for an appeal, you have to submit a certified transcript of the hearing -- which is more $$$'s than getting a copy of the recording via tape or CD

[dipper]

Hi all,

Well, as Jilly had stated  - I learned that appealing to the state court is a very complicated issue and one that I was not up for.  

However, I was completely wrong about the appeal.  Turns out, I am in VA - and here, we appeal from J & D to circuit court.  There are no transcripts in J & D court here, so you have an automatic right to a new trial in a different court if you so choose.  This is good in a way, but allows for many hearings circuit court can be appealed to state court.

At any rate, it does cost to appeal - not a major charge.  I dont know if there are any other fees to be paid once the case is assigned in circuit court.  DH picked up the paper and he intends to file for the appeal within a few days.  

Problem now is that its an entirely new hearing. You get to fight everything out again....the other side knowing your position and you knowing theirs.  BM always has a lawyer.  However, we cannot afford the attorney again.  Quite frankly, he didnt do his job the last time.  IF he had, we wouldnt need to go through this again.  The fact is, according to dh's attorney, even BM"s lawyer thought dh would get custody.  The judge simply decided that ss was manipulating everyone to dictate where he wants to live.  Now, being that ss is 14, I thought he had the choice.  What this means though is that dh's attorney did not prove that bm's lack of discipline, her games, her not seeing to his ADHD needs, and her manipulation contributes to ss' behavioral problems.   She portrayed herself as a saintly mother...and the lawyer did nothing to disturb that portrait.

Plus, it doesnt seem ss was that disappointed.  He did want to move here, but he didnt fuss, argue, etc with his mother when she legally forced him to stay with her.  He went to school the next day and doesnt give his mother any problem.

He gives the school plenty of problems.  We have already gotten an email for him refusing to go to homeroom - a week after court.  Another incident and he will be suspended two days.

We filed for custody because ss had been kicked out of school and sent to an alternative school for fighting so much.....he got severely burned and carries permanent scars........and this year's school term has resulted in 9 days of suspension and two criminal charges surrounding those.  

It would be best for ss to be with us because we wanted counseling, she refused.  (The judge has ordered this now)  She does not discipline - he gets in trouble, she sends him out with friends.   She lies, manipulates, and he sees all of this.  She curses dh in front of ss.  

The day after our failed attempt in court, she was at it again.  Demanding, screaming, hanging up on DH.  Then we get a letter stating that she had signed ss up for burn camp one weekend in February, and she has plans with him another weekend.  Note:  court order gives dh three weekends per month. He also has joint legal.  So, she makes a sole decision for ss to attend camp one weekend...then takes dh's time for it.    And in her letter, she said dh does not try to get along.....

GEtting along is kissing her *ss, in her opinion.  There needs to be a change...................but, I dont want the stress of court again.....and we cannot afford an attorney.  WE got behind on everything and still havent caught  due to paying him this past time.   I worked a second job for awhile, but I have my dream of a bachelor's degree and a long way to go....I cannot work two jobs and go to school and raise my children.  

DH just isnt physically able to get a second job.  He has diabetes and chronic arm pain......I just dont think he could hold up to a second job.

DI

[jilly]

Dipper I'm sorry things aren't going well for ya'll. :(

[msme]

Dipper, I went pro se in civil court & while it is a different world, here are some things that helped my case.

1. Go over every document that her attorney filed with the court. Inventory your evidence, keep it in chronological order & create an index for it so you can locate a page instantly.

2. Decide how you want your case to flow. Make a list of witnesses & using the documents you have organized, write out a list of questions that you want to ask to support your case. Give a copy of their questions to each of witnesses on your side & review their answers before hand..

3. Be very careful when composing your questions for your ex. If you do it right, you can subtley push her buttons & make her show her real self to the court. Don't forget to prepare questions for anyone she may put on as a witness, if there is anyone.

When I had my step brother (who had sued me for money that my mother gave my brother & me before she died) on the stand, he tried to change the line of questioning with his answers but I quietly repeated the question & when he did it a second time, I turned to the judge & asked her to please instruct Mr. Xxxx to answer my question. She told him to answer & he blew his cork & started screaming. It was beautiful.

4. When her laywer has you on the stand, remember the number one rule of being a witness. "NEVER SAY ONE MORE WORD THAN YOU HAVE TO." Remember, you will not have an attorney to protect you & yell, "I object." Try to answer as many of his questions as possible with a simple yes or no. It is okay to honestly say, "I don't remember." Impress this on your witnesses as well.

5. Keep your cool & do not respond to any inflamatory statements her lawyer may make. His job is to make you look bad. If he comes up with something you weren't expecting, hesitate & say, "I am not sure I understand the question. Would you please repeat it." This will buy you some time. Then while he is repeating, block him out & mentally form your answer.

6. This last one may sound silly but it works. Spend some quiet time thinking about how you will control your temper when he is pushing your buttons & you can be sure she has told him how to do it. Come up with something that will remind you to stay calm. Scrape your shin with the other heel, pinch the side of your upper leg, do something that will lessen the impact of his words & keep you focused on how the court perceives you.

Hope this helps. Good luck & God bless.
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[dipper]

Thank you for the suggestions.  All sound very good.

My dh is the one who will be going in.  Problem is, he gets so incredibly nervous.  I just dont think he can handle any part of it himself.  Before he hired a lawyer this past time, I had typed up everything for him...questions.....opening statements and closing statements.  I had also divided all documents into their proper folders.  But then he hired a lawyer...and that lawyer didnt present one piece of evidence in court....