Cathy, here it is to settle your curiousity! (Long) rated R for ADULT situations

[4honor]

DH and his ex wife have had a consitently conflicted relationship. She beat him for all of the year they were married (and fro several months before hand) and the one time he finally pushed her away, she called police and got a restraining order. He was extracted from SS's life, though he had been "Mr. Mom" during the marriage.  BM has used every argument with DH as a reason to withhold visitation. DH had no money and could not afford a lawyer to bring contempt and did not know he could.  I came along and reminded him he had a backbone. BM went on the warpath.

She taught SS that his dad was not his dad. That his half brothers were not REAL. She taught him (really I have tapes of her bragging about it) that he did not have to listen to Dad (although a meeting of the board of education on his seat of knowledge changed that misconception pretty quick). Then BM told SS he should call police if he got spanked again. DH called the police station and got a detective who told SS that spankings were not child abuse. WHen that didn't work, she began telling SS that he should misbehave more at our house so that he didn't have to come (though he had a good time and had structure and a good balanced meal at our home.) Ss said she told him to do whatever it took and hurt whoever he wanted, since we weren't his REAL family like her and her other son. He began with shoplifting (DH just told him he wouldn't bail him out if he got caught and made him apologize to the store -- we caught him inside and put things back)... then he graduated to harming DS1 - took and stabbed 12 holes in the back of DS1's right hand -- DS1 was 3 at the time. On another occassion took a plastic rod and beat welts onto DS1's legs. A third time, SS tried to strangle DS1.

In the summer of 2003, DS1 and SS shared a tent at our annual camping trip. After everything came out, DS1 told us this is when SS first began abusing him. It happened to him for 18 months at least before we found out. DS2 it had happened from May of 2004 to November 2004. I almost caught the kids on one occasion -- and I should have went with my gut... but I had known this boy since he was 5. I kick myself all the time for not seeing sooner. But I digress.

During the week just after Christmas 2004 my sons indirectly told the babysitter about their (then 13 yo) half brother "rubbing his dinky on them and putting his dinky into their butts". Babysitter freaked and would not further discuss with the kids. Kids had said this in front of a son of a County Sheriff. That guy insisted that the babysitter speak to us and tell us that if police were not called in 48 hours, he would. Babysitter told me about the incident -- the kids had been pinching one another's buttocks and had been asked about it and the whole thing came tumbling out after that.

I sat down with each child privately (they communicate differently) and asked about what happened. I tried to decipher if they were actually abused or there was a misunderstanding.  They each confirmed that SS had required them to remove their pants and he had raped and sodomized them and required that they in turn place their genitalia on his buttocks.

That night I talked to my husband. I also looked online for what I, as a parent, was REQUIRED to do in my city and county.

The next morning we contacted SS's mother. She reacted defensively and gave the old line, "I'll do whatever I want with MY son  -- you can't control me" when she was asked to take certain steps so there would be no possibility of SS being further accused of anything (we were worried about both additional abuse and false charges if SS was alone with any other kids). She went ballistic over the phone. So the joint decision (hubby and I) was made to call the police right away. We wrote our concerns in a letter and had it ready to mail and we spoke to the police within seconds of signing, sealing, and stamping the letter.

We cooperated with authorities. We stood on the side of the kids and kept them from as much of the criminal investigation as we could. Our position was that the end result should be treatment for SS.

SS denied having done it for a long time. But apparently when his attorney started speaking to him without his mother present, he came clean.

During the course of the investigation, the case file was mislaid and the investigation stalled for 5 months. But it EXCEEDED the threashold of having a "good" case by about a mile. It was reassigned and the female DA took things pretty quick after that.

Through the hearings, BM was so focused on how this was affecting HER that she got several tongue lashings from our Judge. (You cannot imagine how hard I prayed for a wise and discerning judge to be assigned.)

I was floored when the judge KEPT Elliott after the first hearing... because BM had not completed the home study and "safety plan" with the probation office.... after all, she had 8 months from the original date to comply.  So SS stayed in Juvie for about 10 days until she got that completed. BM actually used the defense that "the probabtion officer does not return calls" to excuse her failure to get it done.  Judge stated that these were serious charges and until she complied with the requirements he could not in good conscience allow this young man back on the street. I wanted to get up and do the moonwalk or a Snoopy dance, but thought better of it.

I fought my in-laws about their position WITH  BM and my step son. I explained all the reasons SS would lie to his "Bible thumping grandma" about his "homosexual assault" on his little brothers (age 5 and 6 at the time it began.)  They still spread rumors that I was taking revenge on SS for all the harm done to me as a child (not true -- cause if that were the case I would have killed SS early on in all this).

The case went forward on the word of DS1 and DS2 alone.

I told the DA that I was not interested in punishment so much as making sure this was never going to happen again to another child. I also asked for a no-contact order for the younger boys, so that I would not have to fight the family to ensure that SS's presence was not forced on DS1 and DS2.

A week before the trial, the lie detector came back. SS had admitted to abuse of both DS1 and DS2 - though he was only charged with DS1's rape, as DS2 was too shy to talk about what happened until he got to know the DA better. SS agreed to plead guilty in exchange for a recommendation to the SSODA program (Special Sex Offender's Disposition Alternative.) SS had about a hundred conditions of release, but he was put on probabtion with this treatment program mandatory (twice a week meetings and individual counseling too.)

SS was convicted of Child Rape I - a felony. He is on the sex offender registry in the state of Washington but only as a level I offender -- which is not listed on the public websites. His school counselor, principal and all his teachers know. Some of his classmates know and that has been hard on him.  He is making progress in treatment (it has a 12% recitivism rate -- but normal treatment has a 30% recitivism rate and no treatment has greater than 50% reoffend rate.)  

SS has had to go back for a hearing to see if he was going back to finish his sentence in juvenile detention. He'd had being alone with kids greater than 2 years his junior on one occassion, he had been about town without a responsible adult (over 21) though BM KNEW her son who is 18 would not suffice. And SS had missed a meeting with his PO.  All three were heard at the same time. BM and my MIL and FIL paid a $500 bail bond to get him out before trial.

BM blames this all on DH... and on me. I did not do the act. I did everything to make the best out of a horrible situation and I have only had one relapse in front of the younger boys about SS.... pretty good in the 17 months of dealing with all this crap (13 of which I have been unemployed/unemployable).

I have taken the kids to therapy. I have kept the (very tight) budget fluid enough to have $$ for DH to continue his visitation with SS -- even when it meant that the other kids get top ramen twice a week instead of something more nutricious. (How many people can you feed with 2 chicken thighs and a stalk of celery?) My life insurance and My car payment are overdue. BUT BM wants DH to spend $40 on a motel so that DH and SS can spend more time together -- now that she has to be with him every minute he is not at school, custody is not so fun, I guess. AS it is, DH is doing 3/4 of the transportation again.

So, we pay $180 a month in therapy, $300 in CS (we are at 50/50 on the CS order - so BM is supposed to spend HER $300 a month on him too, but doesn't.) Prioperty taxes jumped on our house by 50% this year.

The additional stress is taking its toll on me and I have had 2 hours in the last 6 months without a headache and I get migraines on top of them. I have become an insomniac and I sleep less than 4 hours a night -- when I do sleep. I was also just told that I have 3 genetic markers for cancer and given the family history, I have not a 50/50 chance of getting an agressive cancer (like I thought) but closer to 80% chance in the next 5 years.

And the kicker, I just turned 40. Somehow that was the last straw in my mind. I snapped and told DH's family what I think of them and have refused to see any of them until I am ready. They were so shocked that they have been more considerate of DS1 and DS2 (although I don't think my SIL is ever going to forgive me for saying she is a gold digger and sold unfettered access to her kids to grandma for $30K -- since before the $$ she was denying access to the inlaws and suddenly they can have access any time they want.) Hmmm... again I digress.

It looks like SS is going to violate out of the SSODA program. He is failing several classes (it is required he pass) and he has been absent without an excuse on several occassions.

I am vascillating between taking the high road and hating the little pervert. Regardless, I vent HERE. No matter how I feel, I have acted in SS's true best interest at all times. I refrain from killing BM (in my most insane moments) and thereby making sure SS goes to foster care, because it would hurt SS MORE to see her go (miserable PASing bitter old woman that she is) than to let this play out and pray for a better future for him. We can see the light at the end of the tunnel now since the boy turns 16 on November 1.

BM MADE him this way and is now trying to blame DH for how a child (one he was kept from seeing for over 50% of visitation over the years) turned out. BM was bitter until the end and now that she has ruined this child, she is not happy with the result. WELL DUH!

My kids say "don't bring him back until you fix him". I don't want to put them in that position at all until they get old enough to choose whether to have a relationship with him or not on their own. It is likely that one boy will choose to see him when they are grown and the other will not. It is up to them. They were the ones hurt, not me. The boys are dealing in different ways. The older (DS1) wants to escape in Nintendo games. The younger wants to escape in his school work and books.

It is hard on us all. DH is a splintered man trying his hardest to keep us all afloat and keep his son from destroying what is left of his life before it ever really gets started.

So, literally, my husband is ordered to pay to support my children's rapist. Only in America!

That is our story. It ain't pretty, but it's true.

[Genie]

b/c I don't think many could go threw as much as you have and still be as strong as you are and still married to your DH.

All I can say is that boy is damaged for life b/c of his BM's actions and wonder if there is something that can be done to her but it would probably be pointless.

And your poor boys.  I hope they are healing from this abuse.  It must be very hard.  I wish you all the best and hope that you and your boys will be OK someday soon.

And good for you telling off the in law family. Must've felt really good.

[dipper]

4honor,

I knew tidbits of the story, but it is absolutely shocking!  What I do say is YEAH for you girl!  You have been strong, but putting the inlaws in ther place and getting that no contact order showed true courage.

I had a psyche teacher that told us over and over - "when I was younger, I used to almost apologize for comments that were not in agreement with others.  Then I realized that I have a right to my feelings and opinions"....I still have trouble telling people what I think.  

Your marriage has survived enormous stressors.  SS is lucky to have people that love him enough to take his welfare into consideration.  this is the stuff that vigilante revenge is made of.......BM will pay for this someday....there is no way you can abuse a child to the degree that you mess them up this badly and not pay....

[cathy]

Sometimes telling your story can be therapeutic, and I hope this was the case for you.   I am glad you shared your story and can certainly empathized  (although it does not change my opinion on CS issues! and I was truly not asking you to justify your position by sharing your story - but I'm glad you did)

My husband and I do not have kids together.  He has 3 kids from a prior marriage.  Like you, we are also dealing with child abuse.

I'll skip over all the history when the kids were living with her - but it is very similiar to lots of the situations we hear.  The ex tried to minimize our involvement with the kids.  The kids were poorly cared for, even when Tom was paying a significant amount of child support.  But little did we know....

(There are actually 3 "kids", although the oldest is now 21.  He has been completely turned against his father and me and we have had no interaction with him for ~6 years)

My 2 stepdaughters were with us the first weekend of 2003.  One of their best friends in the neighborhood was spending the night and they were watching tv/hangin out in the bonus room.  I was asleep in our bedroom, and my husband had moved to the guest room after I feel asleep because I snore horribly.

At around 2 am, I heard the girls outside my bedroom door.  I saw them standing there, each trying to convince the other to continue in.  I thought to myself "Oh geez, wonder what they have broken".

They finally came in.  All 3 girls were upset.  My older stepdaughter, 13, was pacing in front of the bed, chewing her thump.  The younger one, 11, ran to the bathroom - a common behavior for her when nervous.  They finally settled down enough to tell me what was going on.

It seems they were playing a game of "what happens at your house that you don't like".  The older girl said there was something about her stepfather, but she could never tell.  The younger one said "I bet I know what it is - it is because he touches us"  It was at that moment that the older girl realize that it wasn't just her.

I talked with them.  We woke up my husband and we talked further.  We were deciding what we should do, and my husband - always calm in critical situations - was making a list.  Top on it was contacting the mother.  She was at work at that time - she works 3rd shift at the hospital.  I remember discussing the fact that we couldn't just call and tell her something like this at work.  We were considering having Tom drive to the hospital and intercept her after her shift ended.

I will never forget my older stepdaughter, upon hearing us planning on involving her mother.  She just sank even further and said "Oh great, she didn't believe me before - she isn't going to believe me now"

It was then that we found out that she had told her mother almost 18 months prior.  Her mother had initially kicked her husband out, but he was allowed back before the night was even over.  She continued to pressure the older daughter - asking her is she was sure, if it might just be a misunderstanding, asking if it was actually her father doing these things to her.  My stepdaughter, already concerned about the effects her disclosure would have, finally recanted and said it must have been a misunderstanding..  She was then forced to hug this man and apologize! This woman did nothing at the time.  Well, nothing except take a third shift job - giving the bastard free and easy access to the girls.

We called the Child Abuse hotline, which told us to call 911, who sent out the police who came and realized this occured outside the city limits.  So we ended up going to the sheriff's dept that afternoon and meeting a representative from CPS at the same time.

We were there for hours.  First they talked to my husband, who later told me it was obvious that they were VERY skeptical. Next they talked to me - I really didn't notice if they were skeptical because I was just relating what I knew and was pretty stunned still.   Then they talked to each of the girls.  

Afterward, they talked to me and Tom together.  Tom said there was a marked change in their attitude.  We had asked that they wait to confront the stepfather until the next day after we had had a chance to obtain an emergency custody order.  They couldn't because they were very concerned since there was a younger sister in the house (the mother and stepfather's child).

Charges were brought against him, and the mother stood by him.  Her entire family supported him, including her parents (the girls' grandparents) even paid for his lawyer.  The mother didn't even call to check on the girls for 5 days after the initial disclosure!  She STILL doesn't believe the girls and is still married to this man.

The older girl went to visit her for 1 hour - and has not seen or spoken to her since.  The younger girl went for 2-3 hours visits - maybe 6-7 times - until right before the criminal trial.  Her mother then told her all this was her fault, along with other lovely comments.  That was the last time she saw or talked with her mother.

The trial was starting and the judge saw that the mother was going to testify that she thought her daughters were lying.  He VERY strongly urged a plea to be made.  The stepfather pled guilty (Alford plea) to 2 counts of assault on a female.

We have since found out other things that happened during the time they lived with their mother -  including her dumping a bookcase of books on top of the girls becuase they didnt' put the books up correctly, throwing  moldy orange juice in their face, dumping a pitcher of kool0-aid over their head - - - rather abusive (emotionally mostly) type behavior.  The worst in my opinion - - when one of the girls was only 8, she had a knife and was going to cut herself (although she isn't sure now if she was trying to kill herself, or just hurt herself).  Her mother walked in and told her "Go ahead.  I'll just make another one just like you".  Nice, huh?

Anyway - the girls have gone thru therapy and seem to be doing extremely well.  People always comment on how close the girls seem to me.  We have always had a close relationship and they tell me I have been more of a mother to them that their mother ever was.

So there you have the even-more-short-than-Reader's-Digest version!

[4honor]

[EM]"All I can say is that boy is damaged for life b/c of his BM's actions and wonder if there is something that can be done to her but it would probably be pointless."[/EM]

Well, my true answer to that would get me 20 to LIFE.

[4honor]

It states that a score of 500 or more is an EXTREME situation.


Did this on BM. Gave her the benefit of doubt on anything I had no proof on. The score was 3000. Yep, you read it right - THREE THOUSAND POINTS --WITH 500 BEING CRITICAL MASS.

SS is pretty much doomed.

As for the no-contact order, SS' PO has stated that in the next year, that will be lifted. I told DH, "No, it will not. Not until the kids are each 18 and out of the house. No matter what anyone else says." Dh agreed that would be best.

[4honor]

I am the survivor of 6 years of sexual abuse by my oldest brother. I understand what your girls went through. Another one of my brothers told my mother about it and she threatened ME with bodily harm if it was true.  I shut up and took it for 5 more years.

Then my parents divorced and my mother was the queen of PAS. She took no mercy  on us or my father. I did what I had to do to survive and I participated in the PAS. I saw my father as an ineffective little man... after all he was not rescuing us from the rare physical abuse but constant emotional abuse. He didn't know about it. I could see how it broke his heart to hear about it, how utterly stunned he was. How sorry he felt to think he had so miserably failed us. We just assumed he knew and was powerless to change it.

I understand the damage that my mother's constant conflict had on us kids-- even though my father rarely fought back, he just quietly drew his line in the sand and gave no ground. I think I understand the effects of PA better than anyone I personally know. I was the statistical fatherless daughter.

I have never been rich. Never been in the upper middle class. Finances are always strained. I am overly sensitive to the plight of the working poor --- a majority of those who owe child support.

I think our disagreement on the CS thing is more a matter of your seeing the glass as half full and me seeing it as half empty. It is not a matter of one parent PAYING more because the other has OTHER children, but the child RECEIVING less and DOING with LESS. IF there is only $100 then you make do with $100. If there is now only $80 then you make DO with $80.

I have a daughter who is 21 now. I raised her without ANY help from her father. We were never married, and only dated briefly (told you I was the poster child for fatherless daughters). He denied paternity and I didn't have the money to pursue a cross-continental paternity battle. I never saw a dime. Would I have paid any LESS money for DD if her father had paid ANY support. NO. Our overall standard of living would have increased. If he then got a deviation from guideline for other children would I have paid any MORE, no, I was already paying all I had to support her and myself. The Standard of living would have had to decrease (oops, back to only one present this year, honey.)

There are very few families in this nation made up of one mother one father and only their (joint) biological and adopted children. Most families are blended. To not consider additional children places a good portion of most familes into an unconsidered state and places additional strain on those children not covered under a court order (as in the case of children who live with both parents, one of which is subject to a prior order.)

I could care less if the support order is fair to the parents. I do care if a support order for one half sibling is detrimental to another half sibling in another household.

I have no idea where I came to all this passion for kids -- I DON'T LIKE KIDS AS A WHOLE!!! They are noisy and messy and a pain in my backside. But for some reason, I will fight tooth and nail to give every child -- whether their parents are slimeballs (like your girls' bm and SF, or like DH's EX) or are mother and father of the year -- the chance to grow up as well as they can and be supported as fairly as possible with the available resources of their BIO/ADOPTIVE parents. And personally, I would rather support SAID CHILD on welfare ASSICTANCE and have the NCP pay nothing, than to have the NCP pay and get put below the threshhold for Assistance and have my tax dollars pay for them TOO.

And if you still disagree, then we disagree. The deviation for additional children should have a standard cut off for each city, based on cost of living and economic forecast -- which isn't hard since they cull that data all the time for other things anyway. At some point the deviation for additional children should disappear since SAID CHILD and their half siblings will neither benefit or see detriment by the lack of a deviation.

Since we see this from different angles, possibly we could find the solution to CS reform? What do you think?

[cathy]

And we weren't faced with situations like this.

I was raised in an intact family, never even moved.  My parents are still in the house I grew up in.  They are remarkable people - caring, loving, involved in their community, devoted to family.  That was my reality growing up.  I thought it was everyone's.  Boy did I have a lot to learn!  I think this just makes the ugliness that I have witnessed even uglier by contrast.

I don't know that there is a "fair" (funny, I get after the girls for using that word!  When they say "that isn't fair" I am quick to tell them "Life isn't fair, get used to it!) solution to child support that will cover ever situation.

I still believe in the normal, average situation - that addiitonal children should not be included in calculating child support.  Here's a little more on my line of thinking there - -

Think of child support as any other financial obligation like your credit card bill.  If you have another child, you can't just call them up and say "Ya know, I have a kid and that is going to take a lot more of our income, so I'm just going to pay you less".  Or call the city and tell them you can't afford to pay $x dollars for each gallon of water cause your expenses are higher because of an additional child.   Yes, I know children aren't credit card or water bills - they are much more important.

When people divorce, you are left with an odd situation and remarriage makes it odder.  I think once you are married, have kids and divorce, you have lost some options and abilities.  And if you marry a person who is divorced with kids, you have to accept these restrictions.  Is it fair?  Hmm  well to me, "fair" is a 4 letter word beginning with F!

I think the bigger side that I really have trouble with is when the CP has additional kids.  They get to claim them and adjust their income downward - which affectively raises the amount of money the the NCP has to pay!  That just strikes me as sooo wrong!

Wouldn't it be nice if a particular dollar amount didn't have to be set and we would have "support of the child" rather than "child support"?

I don't have the answers - I really don't.  I am extremely fortunate financially - I realize that.  When we paid $1390 in child support, I wasn't happy that we paid that much and the kids didn't benefit.  But at the same time, it didn't have a significant affect on us.  We still lived in a nice house, drove nice cars, and more importantly - were able to provide extras for the kids when they were with us.

Now that we are on the other side - I'm almost to the point of telling the girls' "mother" to keep her money.  We don't need it or want it.  It was never truly 'child support' in my mind, but rather her punishment.

Thank you for sharing you story.  It sounds like you have survived and perserved.  I won't dishonor you by saying I'm sorry for what you went thru - because that is what has made you who you are and it sounds like you are a pretty solid, caring person!   I do wish there had been an easier path for you - - -and for "my girls".  

I'll end with the most important point to me - "my girls" are happy, healthy, safe and loved.

[4honor]

In the courts in WA, FAIR does not mean EQUAL. FAIR means the judge took all the situation of both families into consideration and made a "leveling" decision.  When splitting the family home, the parent with greater income and skills is given less of the home so as to level the playing field. Alimony is rarely given, so the assets become a form of lump sum alimony when one party is less occupationally fortunate.  FAIR means that the judge leveled things over the course of the next few years as best he/she could.

I use the term FAIR in the same sense. ALL the circumstances of both should be considered.  NOT EQUAL, but Equitable.

Intact families apportion according to a child's needs. If one child has a genetic disorder or birth defect, they get a larger portion of their parent's assets (read income). If there is not enough $$ to go around for all the kids, then the standard of living reduces.  Instead of taking 3 extra-cirricular activities a year, the older ones can only take one each and the college fund is depleted. That is LIFE. It isn't fair, but it is how it is when you are a member of a family. In intact families children do not ask for siblings to be born --- well most dont -- so why should the existence of additional children -- alot of which were not planned -- not be bourne by older/previous children of divorce as well?

Why should these dynamics change when a parent lives in another home?

As to whether the deviation for a CP should be built into the guidelines? NO. CP can adjust their contribution to SAID CHILD automatically. However, NCP should have it built into the system or find it easier at the lower levels of support to get relief in calamitous situations.

[cathy]

But from different angles.... You aks "Why should these dynamics change when a parent lives in another home?"  But aren't you asking for the dynamics in the other home to change by virtue of changing the CS due to another child in the other home?

One thing that may be throwing things - - in NC, the income shares model is used and that is what I am basing my statements on.  By the worksheet, additional children lower the amount of income considered for either parent - and thus has an effect on the overall child support paid.

So in this case, the additional children in the one home can change the dynamics in the other home.  

In your case, how would you feel if you had to pay MORE child support because your SS's mother had another kid?

(and this probably belongs back on the child support - - - sorry)