New here and I need some info and expertise

[faolansmomma]

I have a six year old son. His father and I were never married. We lived together until DS was about 3 months old. I left with my son due to domestic abuse and drug and alcohol abuse on the part of my son's father. He saw his son sporadically until DS was about a year, at which point he was arrested for a crime he committed before he met me and spent the next 3 1/2 years in prison in another state on the other side of the country.

He got released from prison a little over a year ago and returned to my state. We really had no contact while he was in prison except for a couple of letters.

This whole time I have been well-employed, lived in a small but nice home in a nice neighborhood. I've taken extraordinary care of my son. He is a secure happy little guy living a life full of love and stabilty.

Dad contacted me a few months after his release asking to become a part of DS's life. I told him that the door was open but that he had an awful lot to prove. I told him he either needed to take me to court to request visitation rights or that I'd be willing to go to a mediator. Long story short we have been at this impass for a year now. He refuses to go to court or a mediator and I refuse to let him become a part of DS's life until he does. He feels that he will "get screwed" in court. That it will be expensive, inconvenient and unfair (a little like parenting can sometimes be). He says he'll wind up paying "out the ass in child support" and end up seeing DS an hour a week. This is an intersting view point to me as I have never asked him for a dime nor has he ever given one and an hour is an hour more than he has now which you would think that something would be better than nothing even though I doubt he'd get that little. I have tried to reassure him that I do not intend to go to court with gun's blazing. That I will be largely agreeable and cooperative. I just want everything spelled out clearly in black in white. He thinks that won't matter, that because of his criminal history he'll be treated like a criminal. All I want is a legally binding, good parenting plan, including a period of supervised visits and probably some parenting classes, that will phase him in to DS's life. I have no interest in vengeance or in making his life difficult. Heck, I won't even ask for child support. He won't go to court because he'll be "treated like a criminal" and he won't go to a mediator because "why should we pay $500 for something we could do ourselves?" He wants us to work it out on our own without any judges or lawyers or mediators involved, but honestly he's not been the most stable person on the planet. He has a history of alcoholism and addiction. He has serious anger issues and can be prone to violence. I will not put myself in the position of supervising and policing him and I won't put myself or my son in a position to be harmed by him.

So at this point, over the past year, he and I have had the same phone conversation 25 or more times. Around and around we go. We are at a total impass. But as far as I can see, how serious and committed can someone really be about becomming a part of their child's life if they aren't willing to do the one thing (and a pretty reasonable thing IMO) that would put them on that path?

As a last ditch effort to address his huge fear of the courts or a mediator, I'm wondering if anyone can give me an idea of how things might go in this circumstance at court and/or with a mediator. There is no custody dispute, its solely about visitation. All I want is a phased in plan that will include a period of supervised visits and maybe a few other things like a parenting class or anger management. I don't want child support. I am reasonable and have no intention or desire to make this situation any more difficult or complex for anyone. How expensive could it be? How time consuming (ie how many court appearance, etc..)? Will he be treated badly due to his criminal history? Waht might the process be like?

I really am willing to work with him, but he's gotta meet me somewhere and he just refuses. Maybe if he can get his fears addressed he'll get over. Maybe its a lost cause. I don't know anymore, I just know I cannot have this circular conversation one more time.

[Stepmom0418]

First of all I want to say that I am not here to judge you or your situation. I am here to offer you my opinion and maybe share a stroy or two about why I have this opinion.

I am one that strongly believes that a child NEEDS two parents. I am also one that understands domestic violence (DV) issues as well as protecting children from DV issues.

I am a mother of 4 children that I am CP to(2 with my ex husband and 2 with my current husband) I am also a stepmom to 1 that we are ncp to. (my current husbands son)
As you can imagine I can see both sides to this. I can see the custodial parents side as well as the non custodial parents side.

My ex husband has been in his fair share of trouble BUT I will say that his 2 kids love him as much as they love me. I have always kept them in touch with him even when he landed himself in prison. I will always give him as much time with them as he wishes as long as he is NOT using drugs and protects them when they are with him. He is doing alot of changing and is headed down the right track now. We also split up due to DV issues and it took me a while to realize and understand that it was not ALL him. He and I had to grow up and realize that our children love both of us and NEED both of us.

Ok with that said..........I can understand your fears in your post. I also think that you are right to want to start out slow. Is he still using drugs? If he is not maybe he could come over and meet son and take him to the park for an hour or so at a time and start off that way.

Yes the courts are hard on fathers that have a criminal background. Even sometimes without a background the courts are hard on fathers. It is almost a guarantee that he will have to pay support if you go to court. Also my understanding is that courts want to set up custody and visitation and child support all at the same time. Also another thing to consider is that SOME not all prisons make the prisoners go through anger classes, so he may have already went through one. A parenting class is a good idea for anyone to take. They are very helpful. Maybe you have a friend that would be willing to supervise a few visits. You can also write up your own parenting plan and submitt it to the courts if you both agree. I will tell you from my own experiences that mediation is a waiste of time and money if 2 partys cant agree.

I wish you the best of luck and always keep your childs best interest at heart. You sound like you are willing to help foster a relationship between father and son so the best thing i can say is that you have to decide which way is the best way for everyone. (agreement, court, ect.)

This is just my opinion and not legal advise.

[joni]

If I were the father, I too would be suspicious about how the court would treat and view me.  Perfectly great fathers, like my husband, get screwed for no reason.  I would think an ex felon would be a field day for the family court system.

Clearly, the ball is in your court.  Are you concerned about your or your son's safety with this man?

If the answer is no, try to make baby steps yourself with him.  There's many parents out there with no court ordered visitation doing just fine.  As long as he can abide by the arrangement you both agree upon, I see no reason that you guys can't work this out and keep this out of family court.

You won't know until you try.  You have to start somewhere.  Being at an impass for the past year and your son not knowing his father because of it isn't good either.  Clearly this man seems to be sincere in his desire to see his son or he wouldn't make 25 calls to you over the past year.  I think he's showing sincerity about his child.

As far as child support, you should have something.  Is your concern that if he starts paying you, he'll think he's entitled to something more?  

[faolansmomma]

>Clearly, the ball is in your court.  Are you concerned about
>your or your son's safety with this man?
>
>If the answer is no, try to make baby steps yourself with him.
> There's many parents out there with no court ordered
>visitation doing just fine.  As long as he can abide by the
>arrangement you both agree upon, I see no reason that you guys
>can't work this out and keep this out of family court.
>
>You won't know until you try.  You have to start somewhere.
>Being at an impass for the past year and your son not knowing
>his father because of it isn't good either.  Clearly this man
>seems to be sincere in his desire to see his son or he
>wouldn't make 25 calls to you over the past year.  I think
>he's showing sincerity about his child.
>
>As far as child support, you should have something.  Is your
>concern that if he starts paying you, he'll think he's
>entitled to something more?  
>
>

I am concerned about our safety. One of the last times I saw him, back before he went to prison, he pressed a knife against my throat in front of our barely year old son and a mutual friend. He has hit me in broad daylight on busy public streets. He has dragged me out of cars by my hair. Plus, he has also refused the concept of supervised visits unless its me doing the supervising, which I won't do because its not safe for me.

You say I have to start somewhere.. why doesn't he have to start somewhere? With all due respect, because I know I'm the one that came here looking for advice and I know this site is more geared towards fathers' rights but, 25 phone calls do not and should not impress me nor does it indicate sincerity. It indicates persistance or some might say stubborness. Calling and whining but then taking no action whatsoever is far from an impressive undertaking. I am not impressed that we have been having the same conversation for over a year. It says to me that he is saying, "Yeah, I want to see my son, but not badly enough to inconvenience myself or make myself uncomfortable or really make any sacrifices in anyway."

You also mentioned "as long as he can abide by the arrangement you both agree upon..." But I tried that with him countless times in the past in a myriad of ways. He always oversteps boundaries and crosses lines. I have absolutely no confidence in his ability to agree to and abide by an informal agreement.. probably not a formal agreement either, but then atleast I'd have some back up.

I started out saying court only. I eventually compromised to suggesting a mediator as an option. He still says no. He basically says that its to be on his terms, or not at all. I think the fact that I'm willing to work towards something with him, as long as it involves a formal agreement, the fact that I'm willing to overlook CS since that is apparently an obstacle for him, the fact that I'm even having a dialogue with him speaks volumes for me and is speaking very little for him.

A lot of people would've shut the door on this guy permanently a long time ago. I've left the door open a crack. He has to do something very basic that thousands of people do everyday and I'm offering my full cooperation. If he can't get it together enough to go down to a courthouse and file some paper work or pick up the phone to call a mediator, I see that as a strong indication that he's not really in this for the long haul.

Like I said, I'd like to be able to address his specific fears about going to court, so that he has no arguments left outside of "I don't wanna" like a two year old. Parents, real parents, do things every single day that they don't "want" or "like" to do, but you do them because its your job. Refusing court or mediation is the one thing standing in his way of becoming a part of DS's life. That's entirely on him. Not me. Its a very reasonable, logical request.

So, what might we experience at court? How many appearances might we have to make if the two of us try to agree on what we want before hand? How much might it cost? Same questions for a mediator? Please tell me specifically about your knowledge of the court process and/or mediation process so I can try to take some of the mystery out of it for him.

[jilly]

Based on what you've said, I have to agree with you on having a court order for visitation.  As it stands right now, your ex has just as much legal right to your son as you do.  He could take him off for a visit and never return him because there's no order stating you have sole physical and legal custody.  If that happened the Court would most likely see that the child has been with you all his life and the circumstances of why your ex is just now in the picture and order that he return the child to you.  But as anyone here can tell you, when it comes to the Family Court system there are no guarntees.  That's also assuming you could find him should he take off with your son. I'm assuming his parental rights weren't terminated while he was incarcerated.

I don't think you are asking for anything unreasonable and the fact he won't agree to anything makes me very suspicious of his motives.  I know the reasons why he says he doesn't want to go to court but if he was truly interested in being a part of his son's life he'd go through hell and high water to make it happen.  He's been a snake in the past and, although I know people can change, I don't think this snake has shed his skin.

This response is probably going to tick some people off, but c'est la vie. Based on this guy's history you've got to not only do what's best for your son but protect yourself.  Good luck to you and I hope that you and your ex can resolve this.

[joni]

I suggested the baby steps because clearly, you are the bigger person here?

Also, you didn't state the obvious like fearing for your safety in your original post.  It's hard to answer without the specifics and not generalize so don't get frustrated with my lack of knowledge.

I stand by what I said, if I was an Ex con, I would want to avoid court at all costs because I wouldn't trust that I wouldn't be treated well.  When you're a parent in the disadvantaged position, deserved or not, the court process is intimidating, frustrating and denegrating.  It takes a year and a day to resolve anything and proceeds at a snail pace.  And...it's not cheap.

Agreements mean nothing if people won't comply.  Dad probably won't show in court but you already anticipate this.  The path of least resistance might be to have a Guardian Ad Litem appointed for your child.  They would be your child's advocate.

This would also put an objective person in the middle and take you out of the direct adversarial role.  The GAL would meet with him independently and discuss a parenting plan.

The first course of action would be graduated visitations.  Your child doesn't know his father.  There would have to be an introductory period and bonding period, which tends to go faster with older children like your son than children of tender age.

Perhaps the GAL can have a therapist appointed to oversee the first meetings and make sure it goes well.  I know from this board, many custodial parents want supervised visitation.  Then these CP's want the supervised visitation to be at their own homes or have the CP's relatives do the supervising.  Personally, I find that denegrating.

A suggestion for supervised visitations would be a social worker's office, chosen by the GAL.  I would say to defer as much of the decision making the GAL as possible to take yourself out of the middle of it.  There's also an organization called CASA which are lay people who act as the child's advocate.

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[FLMom]

Well, if you haven't figured out anything else from your post, it's that here at DeltaBravo you don't have a bunch of bobbleheads agreeing to everything you say. We'll definitely do you justice in making sure you see a situation from all sides. :-)

I think you and your ex are both making this more difficult than it is. The court system is bogged down. They WANT to see people work things out on their own. The easy solution is called a "Stipulated Agreement". I'm not sure if you mentioned child support, but I included it in the following just in case.

You can go get these papers from your Family Law office in your courthouse. In the "Stipulated Agreement" you list:
1) Visitation time you both agree on.
2) Pick up and drop off points.
3) A parenting plan of how the two of you plan to work together to raise the child.
4) A plan for increasing visitation as the child gets older.
5) Etc, etc of whatever is pertinent in your case, such as ramifications of violations, school, medical, just list it all out.

Both of you sign this and it's done. Splitting the cost you'll both spend MAYBE $100 each to file.

The second thing you'll need to file, in the case of child support, is a "Motion to Deviate From Child Support Guidelines (or whatever this form is called in your state). This says that although the state says he is supposed to pay $***, that you both agree that $@@@ is acceptable.

This way you are both bypassing the lawyers and having a Judge rule over the case. You're showing your ex that you are making an effort, but that he has to make an effort also in filing this. If he doesn't agree to this, he is completely unreasonable, considering how many fathers have to fight for every extra minute spent with their kids.

And by the way, get off the phone with this guy. Do everything in writing and e-mails, and save every scrap of paper. You'll hear on this site "document, document, document!"----take it to heart. This way if he suddenly becomes independently wealthy two years down the road, he cannot take YOU to court for keeping his child away from him. (Remember--anything you mail or e-mail him may one day be read by a Judge. Keep it to the point and businesslike.)

Start with the archives section on this site and read every word--what may not seem to apply to you now just might a year down the road. In educating yourself you can also educate your ex. Your child will be all the better for it.

Good Luck!
FLMom

[faolansmomma]

I have never heard of a "Stipulated Agreement". Definitely sounds worth looking into. Thanks for the info.

[joni]

A stipulated agreement is a court order signed by a judge.  

[TwoBoys]

I have a stipulated signed agreement, as does my fiance.

go to an attorney, and ask if there is a standard shared parenting agreement for your county.

Thats the best place to start. T hey should give you one and it should cost you nothing, and you may be able to find an attorney that will give you a free consultation.

If so... get the shared parenting agreement, and usually that will set forth visitation times, etc.

You can deviate from thsi, however, they usually have a lot of other stuff in it that most parents dont think to include in the beginning, but in hindsight youll wish you had.

Include everything from how each parent should act at exchanges (cordial) that no bad mouthing will be tolerated, the chidl shall be properly fed, clothed, and bathed, with all clothes returned clean and laundered, etc.  Try to include absolutely all the details.

Account for every holiday, the exchange time and place, etc.

How to handle makeup visitatoin, etc.

Draft it up, have an atty glance at it (just get a consultation for this) sign and notarize it, and send it to him.  See if he agrees.  If he does, he needs to sign and notarize it, send it back.  File it with the court, with a request for the judge to order it into effect.  INclude in this anything setting custody, visitation whatever.  

Good luck.

TwoBoys...