Doctor Issues

[mistoffolees]

>>>I had no idea that some girls have died from complications
>>>due to this vaccine.
>>
>>Care to provide documentation of that assertion?
>
>All you have to do is check the VAERS website.  3 girls have
>died from receiving this shot.  Over 1600 have had serious
>reactions.  It's only been offered a very short time, and only
>a few girls (relatively speaking) have received.  That is a
>HUGE percentage.
>

I have no idea what the VAERS web site is, nor do I have any reason to believe that their posts are factual.

Do you have a documented web site which supports your claim?

[dipper]

Where is the info that two girls have died and that others have had seizures?  

When my daughter got her first shot, we were told that some teens have passed out when receiving the shot.  As this is a mix of teens and needles and I have seen adults pass out when giving blood, I didnt think that was very odd myself.

I did read in one post where you stated that you werent questioning people who want to allow their child to have it, but simply wanting to know about the legalities if one is for and one is against... no problem with that.....I would hope at age 16, the parents would both agree to let the daughter make the choice.

My daughter was aware of what the vaccine actually was for...and she wanted this vaccine.  

I think, personally that as parents, its what you weigh as the greater risk.  Vaccinations come with some amount of risk....

[Sanche99]

>Where do you get off telling me I'm trying to force anyone to
>do anything?????  Seems to me you're WAY too emotional about
>this issue to even TRY to look at it objectively.  I couldn't
>force anyone reading this thread to blink, let alone get them
>to have their children immunized.  Sounds like you need to
>back off and rethink.....

Your attitude from the beginning, the VERY FIRST POST, was that I was doing something "wrong" because I don't want my SD to receive this vaccine.  The pros and cons of the vaccine aren't the issue, but I answered your question about why I don't want her to get it.  You STILL couldn't "move on," and got quite rude.  

>Now that I see where you're 'really' coming from, I know that
>this whole thread's main issue probably doesn't have anything
>to do with the vaccine.  

Where I'm "really" coming from?  What, that I "really" don't want my children, including my SD, to receive this vaccine?  Oh, how horrible.

>I NEVER
>mentioned anything about ORAL polio, just polio.  

Um...So what?  They are BOTH vaccines for polio.  In fact, the OPV is generally considered a "better" vaccine, in that it is more effective.  Our doctors still don't administer it.  

[Sanche99]

>I have no idea what the VAERS web site is, nor do I have any
>reason to believe that their posts are factual.

*ROFL*  Um...Yeah, and *I* haven't done enough research.  VAERS = Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.  //www.vaers.hhs.gov  Yes, "dot gov."  It's a GOVERNMENT website.  Doctors are required by law to report adverse effects of vaccines.  The government compiles their reports.  The VAERS website has nothing to do with "posts," it's the report from the United States government about the adverse effects of vaccines.  

>Do you have a documented web site which supports your claim?

Here is a copy of the VAERS reports on the deaths, as of May 11, 2007.http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/GardasilVAERSDeaths.pdf

And a copy of the VAERS reports for the 1637 serious side effects as of May 11, 2007.  http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/GardasilVAERSReports.pdf
 
But gee, if the govenment isn't well "documented" enough for you, don't know that I can help.  

[Sanche99]

>Where is the info that two girls have died and that others
>have had seizures?  

Actually, 3 have died, as of May this year.  You can find the info on the VAERS website.  Here is a link to an article about it.  The article has links to the VAERS reports, too, so you don't have to go and mess around VAERS with a search. http://judicialwatch.org/6299.shtml

>When my daughter got her first shot, we were told that some
>teens have passed out when receiving the shot.  As this is a
>mix of teens and needles and I have seen adults pass out when
>giving blood, I didnt think that was very odd myself.

The teens who passed out didn't just do this immediately upon receiving the injection, but up to hours afterwards.  At least one girl (I didn't read EVERY SINGLE over 1600 report) had a tonic clonic seizure, not just a "slump to the floor" reaction.  

>I did read in one post where you stated that you werent
>questioning people who want to allow their child to have it,
>but simply wanting to know about the legalities if one is for
>and one is against... no problem with that.....I would hope at
>age 16, the parents would both agree to let the daughter make
>the choice.

I agree.  And we have discussed it with my SD.  We gave her the pros, too.  She decided that she didn't want it now, and I think that should be respected.  They'll give her an abortion if she gets pregnant, but they won't let her choose whether or not they inject her with a brand new drug?  That just sounds messed up.

>My daughter was aware of what the vaccine actually was
>for...and she wanted this vaccine.  

Did she realize that it wasn't a vaccine for cancer?  I have scheduled tons of girls for appointments for this vaccine, and I cringe every time I hear the girls being "informed" about it.  Typically, it goes something like this:

Girl:  Wait, what's that for?  Why do I need a shot?
Mom:  It will keep you from getting cancer.
Girl:  Oh, cool.  

>I think, personally that as parents, its what you weigh as the
>greater risk.  Vaccinations come with some amount of risk....

Exactly.

[mistoffolees]

>>Where is the info that two girls have died and that others
>>have had seizures?  
>
>Actually, 3 have died, as of May this year.  You can find the
>info on the VAERS website.  Here is a link to an article about
>it.  The article has links to the VAERS reports, too, so you
>don't have to go and mess around VAERS with a search.
>http://judicialwatch.org/6299.shtml
>

Typical article. No facts, just allegations. People die all the time. There is absolutely no evidence that the vaccine caused those deaths.

Since you've already demonstrated that you don't know how these tests are run, they run both a test group and a control group which doesn't get the vaccine. They compare deaths and adverse reactions for both groups. The incidence of death and severe reactions was no different in the control group and the test group.

IOW, some people die whether they receive the vaccine or not. The fact that someone died after receiving the vaccine does not demonstrate causality.

[mistoffolees]

>
>>I have no idea what the VAERS web site is, nor do I have any
>>reason to believe that their posts are factual.
>
>*ROFL*  Um...Yeah, and *I* haven't done enough research.
>VAERS = Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
>//www.vaers.hhs.gov  Yes, "dot gov."  It's a GOVERNMENT website.
> Doctors are required by law to report adverse effects of
>vaccines.  The government compiles their reports.  The VAERS
>website has nothing to do with "posts," it's the report from
>the United States government about the adverse effects of
>vaccines.  
>
>>Do you have a documented web site which supports your claim?
>
>Here is a copy of the VAERS reports on the deaths, as of May
>11,
>2007.http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/GardasilVAERSDeaths.pdf
>
>And a copy of the VAERS reports for the 1637 serious side
>effects as of May 11, 2007.
>http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/2007/GardasilVAERSReports.pdf
>
>But gee, if the govenment isn't well "documented" enough for
>you, don't know that I can help.  
>


Except for one thing that you've missed. That does not prove causality. Doctors report everything that might possibly be related, but only after statistical analysis can it be shown that the vaccine caused the deaths or reactions.

Some people die all the time - whether they receive the vaccine or not. The fact that someone died after receiving the vaccine does not prove the vaccine caused it. For example, if someone were run over by a car after receiving the vaccine, would you also claim that the vaccine causes auto deaths?

The FDA's analysis is currently that the vaccine remains on the approved list and there is no evidence that it causes significant harm or death.

[Sanche99]

>Typical article. No facts, just allegations. People die all
>the time. There is absolutely no evidence that the vaccine
>caused those deaths.

*LOL*  Do you have problems with reading comprehension or something?  I am beginning to wonder, just based on the many mistakes you've made just here.  

The article contains a link with the ACTUAL REPORTS from the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.  Do you seriously not understand that?  

>IOW, some people die whether they receive the vaccine or not.
>The fact that someone died after receiving the vaccine does
>not demonstrate causality.

Yes, I'm sure teenage girls drop dead from cardiac arrest all the time, the fact that it happened upon receiving this vaccine means nothing.  *snort*

[Sanche99]

>Except for one thing that you've missed. That does not prove
>causality. Doctors report everything that might possibly be
>related, but only after statistical analysis can it be shown
>that the vaccine caused the deaths or reactions.
>
>Some people die all the time - whether they receive the
>vaccine or not. The fact that someone died after receiving the
>vaccine does not prove the vaccine caused it. For example, if
>someone were run over by a car after receiving the vaccine,
>would you also claim that the vaccine causes auto deaths?

Funny how you were bashing me and claiming there was no evidence, and that the website I mentioned was a bunch of "posts" that couldn't be verified...Yet now you're blithering on about causality.  Care to get your story straight?

The reports don't mention people being run over by cars.  They mention girls dying of cardiac arrest after receiving the vaccine, or dropping into seizures right there on the floor, and a whole host of other problems.  The fact that we see the SAME reactions, over and over again, tells us that there IS causality, not just correlation.

>The FDA's analysis is currently that the vaccine remains on
>the approved list and there is no evidence that it causes
>significant harm or death.

Yeah, and how long did it take for them to drop Thalidomide from their list of "approved drugs?"  How long before they stopped using the oral polio vaccine?  It's a HUGE money maker, if they drop it from their approved list, they will have to admit they made a mistake.  And we all know how much the government likes to do that.

[mistoffolees]

>
>Wow...Just...Wow.  You are not SERIOUSLY comparing HPV to
>POLIO, are you?  One was a disease that was running rampant
>throughout the country, killing and paralyzing thousands, and
>ANYONE could get it.  The other is something that a few teens
>might get if they are having unprotected sex, and even then,
>it only *might* turn into cervical cancer, and IF they don't
>get checked every year, it MIGHT cause a few deaths.  
>


I guess your post might be accurate IF you consider 5,000 deaths per year from cervical cancer to be a "few".

If the vaccine prevents even half of those deaths, it makes a difference. Not to mention the network effects.