Proper medical and dental care; what constitutes neglect?

[my3sons]

I'm wondering what other parents opinions are on this subject.  My ex has had custody of our 3 sons for the last 5 years ( I didn't lose custody, volutarily switched with ex trying to do what appeared to be the right thing for the kids at the time - boy was I wrong), with me sharing custody 50/50 for the last year of that time period.  

She has never taken the kids (now ages 12,11, 9)  to a pediatrician or dentist.  Not once.  The only medical care that they have recieved has been when I've taken them.  For the first four years of this scenario, I lived 350 miles away from her, so the kids would only get medical attention when they were at my home.

I've moved to within 8 miles of them now, and was successful in gaining the shared custody, but despite a court order that states she must take them to the doctor and dentist at least once per year (sad that a parent has to be ordered by a court to take their child to the doctor - did I mention she's a nurse?) she still doesn't do this.  So my wife and I take the kids for checkups and to the dentist a few times per year.  

Does this constitute neglect of these children by my ex in anybody else's mind?  Her attitude has been " if they're not sick, why should they go to the doctor?".  Am I wrong here?  I'm seriously considering attempting to get full custody of the kids back, but don't want to jump the gun either.

Thanks for any feedback.  

[VAStepmom]

I"m not sure if this is neglect, unless the kids are sick and aren't being treated.  We're going through something similar, also wondering if we're dealing with neglect.  My SD has 3-5 cavities, that you can actually see, for over 6 months and BM has not taken her to have them filled.  She's had 3 appointments, but hasn't made it to one.  And BM has been through dental hygine school.  

I'm curious though, how is the wording in your order for making her take them to the densist and doctor.  I'm thinking we need this (at least for the dentist) in our order, but I'm just not sure the best way to word it.  Thanks, and good luck!

[joni]

We have a similar situation with my DH's ex (also a nurse...what's with that?).  She's never taken her to a dentist or the eye doctor, even after the child complained.  We took her.  Mom had a cow, tried to then cancel our future appointments.

Mom only takes the kid to the doc when the kid is deathly sick.  Spoke with our atty about it last month, he said the court doesn't put much weight on this unless there's MAJOR medical neglect or it's combined to show a pattern of other neglect.

I would keep quiet on it.  Don't make a big deal of it.  Now that you live near, make it your responsibility.  And if there's an issue of custody in the future, you can use this to show that you are the more responsibile parent.

Get involved in the school.  Be a parent volunteer in the classroom.  Sit in the classes as often as you can.  Clearly, the children are lacking in the parental support department from mom.  You appear to be sincere, so take this opportunity to be actively involved in their lives and leave the legal issues on the back burner.  The legal issue should not be your motivation here, the health, welfare and community of your children should.

Holy Crap....I just read your post on child support.  Were you married to the same woman as my husband was?  His Ex was also a nurse, refused to work full time (her volunteer work consists of hanging out at the mall to make it look more busy), is in college at 36 (on her 3rd career change, never finished the other degree, which my DH is paying off her school loan on that from the divorce), and also neglects the needs of the child medically.  We won't get into the emotional neglect and abuse.

Any who...keep in touch.  I'm looking up the point you raised on voluntary impoverishment and see if it's something we can use.  Feel free to email me.

[Kitty C.]

What with your liberal custody arrangement, and your ample opportunites to take the kids yourselves, there's really not much you can do.  No, she isn't following the CO and clearly is in contempt, BUT the children aren't in a state of neglect because you've taken care of making sure they HAVE been seen.

Now, if she starts to seriously balk at your attempts to have them seen (cancelling appts., coming to appts. and making a scene, etc.), then I'd push for something legal.........and on top of that, you'd have witnesses at the doctor/dentist's office for proof.

Personally (having been in some aspect of healthcare for over 20 years), her being a nurse and pulling this crap is appalling.  But one thing to keep in mind is MSP (Munschausen's by Proxy)......certainly an MO would be to allow the kids to get so sick, then SHE saves the day by getting them the help they desperately need, and her 'degree' would just add to that.

And she also has to know that the majority of schools will not allow kids to register unless they have updated immunization cards.

[my3sons]

Thanks for the reply.  I've found some interesting articles on the subject.  The American Academy of Pediatrics outlines a specific schedule that parents are recommended to follow regarding proper routine medical care for children.  The definition of the term "neglect" is definately a gray area.  

The wording in my custody/visitation order is very straightforward on this.  Here' s what it says:

"Mother shall take the children to an in plan dentist at least one time/year, prior to the summer custodial access with Father.  Mother shall take the children to their pediatrician well check-ups each and every year, prior to the summer custodial  access with Father.  Father shall have the option of taking the children to a dentist or pediatrician while they are with him if he feels that additional checkups are necessary."

This was written at a time when I lived in NY and ex and kids lived here in MD.  However, once I moved to MD and was granted shared custody, this remained in effect by order of the judge.

[my3sons]

Thanks for the reply Joni.  I think you're right about the court not placing too much weight without serious medical issues.  I guess that baffles me a little, but it seems to be true.  I think it's sad for kids out there who don't have another parent doing the right thing when CP isn't.  What do they do?  Just suffer through it I suppose.  I think 5 years with no doctor or dentist is neglectful, but I think you're right.  Unless something bad actually happened to the kids as a result, the court will not put much weight into it at all.  

My whole reason for moving here to MD was to make sure the kids are being cared for properly, so I'll just keep plugging along with that philosophy and as you said, hopefully, if custody actually ever becomes an issue, I'll have a long history of properly caring for the kids and she won't.  

I'll post the results of my voluntary impoverishment issue after we go to court.  She's got to go to a contempt hearing on April 11.

[my3sons]

Thanks for the reply.  Luckily, although she refuses to take the kids herself, she has not attempted to stop me from doing so.  She's got a contempt hearing in April for this issue and for the fact that our court order states that although I am to provide medical insurance for the kids (which I do), we are to split uncovered medical expenses 50/50.  Not only does she not take them  for medical or dental care herself, but she also refuses to pay her share of the bills.  She's in the hole for a few hundred dollars, so we'll see what the judge thinks in April.

[joni]

This will also give you a good opportunity to gage your barometer on the judge and see the judge's attitude towards your ex as well as yourself.

[wendl]

how did the kids go 5yrs with no medical attention, how did they allow them in school without updated immunization records.

I know my sons dr says once  a year check up (unless child gets sick) which my son usually only goes once a year.

Dentist says 2x per year for cleaning and more if he has a cavity that needs tending to.

Then my son goes to the nuerologists 4x a year, two blood draws then to the dr's to review blood work from lab with  us.

It is sad that you get in more trouble with the law for neglecting your animals than a parent neglecting their children.

Keep taking the kids to the dr, show you are the one that is making sure of their health and needs.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[my3sons]

Thanks for the reply.   They got in to school because I took them to the doctor when they would come visit me in New York.  I eventually came to the conclusion that the only way they'd get the care they need is if I lived with/near them, so I moved down to Marlyland last year.

I agree with you, it is sad that animals seem to have better legal protection than children.

The American Academy of Pediatrics has a recommended schedule of pediatric care at:

http://www.aap.org/visit/prevent.htm