Giving permission on dads time

[mango]

We have a 50/50 shared parenting plan, and SD is 12.

Highly conflictive, no decent communication between parents. BM feels she has a right to make ALL decisions as if BF is only a visitor. She signs up SD for activities / events and sends us the last minute schedule and costs after she enrolls. Expects us to comply, and have no opinions on the costs, or the daily schedules of the activities. Nor (it seems) do we have any rights to make our own family plans with SD.

We have a family of 6 (including her), and our schedule is anything but available 24/7 for her to blindly make plans on it.

Well she took us to court when we objected to one of the activities and she lost. Court told her she needed to "consult with father prior to signing up". Parenting plan says "prior consultation for activities", but she still does it, over and over again. Then says BF doesn't care about her best interests, only his own, yadda-yadda.

The one that gets hurt is my SD, if we happen to have made previous family plans that we are unwilling to change. (Also my own family suffers with having to break our plans, and they are disappointed)

OK.
Now, we just found out that she signed her up for a booth at an art festival on our weekend in 2 months. Funny too cause we do not see her for the second half of the summer, and then she scheduled our first weekend we get her back. Anyway, we happen to find out about this through another source, not her, so technically we are still unaware. (SD is strictly not allowed to discuss anything that her and her mom do either.-PAS)

The game: She will wait until the very last minute, to give us information knowing by then, we will have made other family plans together, and then we are the "bad guys" if we say "sorry we already made family plans". Or we can "break" our plans to accommodate this rude behavior. Unfortunately, the SD is always the victim to this game, and not by our hand. It's win-win for BM, she either ruins our family plans together or we are the bad-guys for not allowing her to attend because of our plans. (which are never important enough – according to her)

The thing is we would never dream of planning something that was on her time.

This may seem so petty, but some o fthe stuff she has planned for her were as large as a group trip abroad, during our summer. She paid for it, and all without asking us first.  Then BF refused to sign the passport, and the trip got cancelled and teh people were all mad at BF, for being a bad-guy. But why should we loose our summer with her. She never offered us a trade in time either. She just assumes if she gets a bunch of people involed that our back is against the wall, and we "have to say yes, no matter what."

How can we handle this the right way?

We have considered "contempt" on her for "not consulting/uncooperative", as this is a constant occurrence, and she seems to not learn. But she says it's "Us" that are not cooperative, because "we don't allow her to do things she likes to do".

Should we involve the SD and explain to her the rules and make her accountable for some of this?

Any smart ideas?

[junglechicken]

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't pull any punches with this kind of behaviour.  I think you should explain to sd that people aren't there to demand things of, you all have plans that DON'T revolve around her, and if you do not see advance paperwork regarding schedule changes and costs, sd does not attend said activity.

All in a loving way, of course.  I really don't think she should be held accountable.  She should, however, be taught that her mother's behaviour is not the way of the world, without badmouthing her mother.  Tightrope act, that is.

Will you be the bad guys?  Yeah, probably.  You have to decide what's more important...that sd gets what she wants, or that the whole family is happy.

And yes, throw contempt at bm.  It really doesn't matter what she says.  You haven't been consulted, even though you are supposed to be.  DOn't just let her get away with it.

It's too bad sd is in the middle, but saying No to your children is part of being a parent.  What if you and dh were her parents and she wanted to do something on a day or weekend you all had plans?  Would you cancel your plans to accommodate her activities or would you gently remind her you have plans (or inform her of such) and say "Maybe next time, honey"?

[ocean]

I agree....She is old enough to talk to about being a part of a family. Tell her you will support her in anything she wants to do but you need to know about it and then you will talk to her to see if you can do it. I tell my own, one activity per season. Ask her what she would like to do/interested in and look into what is available.

[backwardsbike]

I am dealing with this exact same issue.  I am NC.  CP knows that if he lets me know ahead fo time that I will ask for compensatory time.  In the past he has gotten away with scheduling things and having the kids ask permission to go after he has already enrolled them.

You're right.  You end up being the bad guy.  But after years of giving in and only now realizing that every time I did I gave away a little parental authority, I am saying NO.

My DD is 13.  I have told her that unless I know in advance from now on the answer will be "no".  Just like that David Spade commerical for Capital One!

This time the issue is Girls scout camp.  SM mom is the director of the camp.  So I know that they knew the dates at least since March.  Dad never informed me as per the order.  DD never told me the dates either.  No one allowed me to register her.  Then last week she tells me she's " reminding me" of the dates for the camp.  The answer:  "Oh so sorry I didn't know in advance.  We have plans that cannot be changed."

The kicker in my case:  I offered the CP that weekend in trade for another weekend we wanted to switch and he turned me down!  The camp was never mentioned.  When I mentioned to DD that I had offered to switch that weekend with CP and he had declined adn never mentioned the camp her answer was, " Well Dad can't be bothered with remembering when Girls Scout stuff is."  Well then...it must not be that important.

[mango]

SD brought up the art booth on her own this weekend, and we said funny that you are all "signed up" for this and no one discussed it with us first? We told her it might be a good idea for her own sake to look at a calender and see who's time it is and ask that parent for persmission, if it's something important. Because the BM is not allowed to give permission for things during dads time. But it went in one ear and out the other with a blank stare.

She said, well I was letting you know ahead of time that I am doing this. She missed the point. You do not "inform" dad of plans you or your mom already made on dads time. Permission needs to come from mom for mom's time dad on dads time. ~Simple.

She went in shut down mode.

Our kicker is that the BM's mothers boyfriend "supposedly" signed her up for this event, because DH had threatened BM a few months ago, if she keeps signing up for events on his time he will file contempt against her. So she is having other people do it so she can be immune from contempt but still play the same game.

Dad is still the bad-guy if SD can't go. It's win-win for BM.

[Kitty C.]

I don't necessarily think it's a 'win-win' for your BM.  She may have had her BF 'make the arrangements', but if your DH decided to hold her in contempt, it will still stick, since it was done by HER BF.  And she still had to know about it in advance, the BF couldn't have known your SD would be involved without talking to the BM anyway.  What a lame-ass excuse for her to try to get out of having the finger pointed at her!  Nail her on it!

[backwardsbike]

Mango...our X's must be related.  My X does the same thing--gets new wife to make the plans then feins innocence!

I am still holding firm on the girls scout issue even thought the X has asked me now, after i had told DD we already had pland  for permission for her to go.  yes, i am the bad guy.  But you know what?  Kids need to know that thier parents are going to occassionally say "no" adn they will be angry and then work it out.  hey, we are family.  We're stuck with each other.  Since I have become less afraid of being the bad guy I have become much better at pointing out who ddi what and who didn't.  The kids are not starting to see who is responsible and who isn't with regard to activites.

Best of luck to you.

[mango]

Thanks for all the posts! It helps to know others feel we should hold our ground on this, because sometimes we feel inclined to let her go to stuff if we had nothing else going on. But then this behavior continues.

We really do need to hold firm and say "no" if they do not have the consideration to ask us in advance, the answer is always going to be "no".

I agree 100% that kids need to know that "they" do not call all the shots, and the parent has the final say, and it will not always be a "yes".

[oklahoma]

We just started seeing SDs regularly (after 4 years, with only 8 or 9 weekend visits allowed.)  SDs are now 12 and 13.  Court order was that we only see them Saturdays for the first 3 months, so we have 9 hours every other weekend.  We pack as much as we possibly can into that time.  Girls are very aware of schedule and the situation....

I was a little surprised when OSD called Sunday night to ask what we were doing the following Saturday, because they just found out about a church activity during Dad's time and they wanted to go.  Wow!!  Love it!  It's hard to give up a few hours, but in our case, the phone call is such a jump forward.  (And we had not yet made definite plans for the day.)  I wish I could say what caused the change, but I don't really know.  We have told SD's "no" on occasion when we had other plans, but we have also altered plans to accomodate special activities.

[OtherMother]

We have the same problem.  BM signs SDs up for soccer and expects us to take them 25 miles for 3 hours on Saturdays.  Our attorney sent a letter telling her we wouldn't be taking them since she did not consult us, but then she makes up conversations that she and DH had about her keeping them until after the games.  DH has no recollection of said conversations but gives in.  It drives me crazy.  The girls feel "guilty for letting their teams down" when we don't take them.  If that's not a coached statement from an 8 yo, I don't know what is.  The little one (8) is dying for ballet lessons which could be given on the days we don't have her (we have a 30/70), but her BM tells her there's no money for that.  We'll come up against this again in the fall, I'm sure.