Clothes...

[gemini3]

My fiance and I have had numerous issues with clothing when it comes to his ex and his daughters.  She routinely sends them over with clothes that are dirty, have holes in them, don't fit, broken zippers, inappropriate for the weather (short sleeved shirts when it's 40 degrees out), etc.  We have bought clothes for the kids and when we send them home their mom goes on to the kids about how ugly they are, how they don't fit, etc, and then we never see the clothes again.

So BM calls my fiance today and says that she's sending clothes for the kids to keep at our house so she doesn't have to pack a suitcase for them anymore, and to "speed up the pick-up process".  This doesn't make sense to me because the only way it would work is if (A) they go home in the same clothes they got there in, or (B) they have a certain set of clothes that is just for our house.  Either way, I don't think it's fair to the kids.  It only takes five minutes to pack a suitcase for the kids for two days.  What gives?

[notnew]

This is an issue that comes up all the time for many people. I don't know why it is such a common event but it is.

BM is using this for several different reasons. She is exerting a level of control, is forcing you guys to buy clothes that you never see again thus getting him to pay more CS then he should and provide clothes so she doesn't have to (if she is throwing the clothes out she is just being vindictive and making him "pay"), and a multitude of other reasons. Part of this is abusive to the children as it makes them feel anything dad does isn't good enough, etc.

The best thing to do in this (and in most other cases), is to remove her control of the situation. Take away her power and either she will stop, or since it is a non-issue for you anymore, it won't bother you so much.

She won't pack a bag. Maybe one day when the kids get older, they will do it for themselves. If she wants to supply clothes to keep at your house that  is great. If not,k keep a few items for them that will last for the weekend they are with you. For longer times, your fiance' needs to write a letter to her specifically requesting she pack a bag with appropriate clothing in the appropriate amount. I did this one time and the wording was: While I have enough clothing for XX for the weekends she is here, I do not have enough for XX weeks. Please have her bring a bag with enough clothes for her to wear during this time. BM complied amazingly enough.

When the kids are with you guys, wash the clothes they came in and send them back in whatever they came in. If you need to have them wear a jacket because it's too cold and she didn't send one, if you want to see it again, have them remove it when they go with her and leave it with you. Harsh I know, but we had to do this because buying things every two weeks was just too expensive and that is EXACTLY what would have continued to happen had we not put a stop to it.

We also had to deal with BM putting ideas in my child's head about what we should be providing forf her. Decide how much of what they will have at your house and stick to it. They grow fast so remember that buying too much will result in them growing out of things they sometimes never even wore. I also had to deal with the brainwashing that the clothes I bought weren't good enough and often things my child picked out were never worn because when she came back, she no longer liked it.

You also have to make a decision when buying things weather they can be taken back to her house or not with the realization that you will never see them again.

This is a classic symptom of a bitter ex who is exhibiting signs of PAS. It's a shame the courts don't recognize this behavior and do something to stop it. But, of course it's another of those he said/she said situations that is hard to prove.

I picked up my child in below 0 degrees and she was wearing a thin windbreaker (I have bought winter coats for my child every year - that is too important to not take care of), with open toed shoes when the weather was calling for significant snow over the weekend, etc.

Brining this up in court was useless.

It is important to realize that for her, it is about control and her staying in power. You have to pick your battles wisely and take as much control as  you can where you can. Follow your court order to the letter so there is no room for getting away with anything.

I wouldn't mention it to her again. If she sends a bag or clothes to stay at your house just go with it. If not, do the same. You cannot let her see that her actions are getting to you two or she will ramp it up.

[allajody]

dh ex complained about the same thing.  What we did is just buy clothes for the kids for our house and when they get here they change so as not to "ruin" their clothes from their other house.  it has been working for us.

[krazyfamily_6]

Ahhh yes.........a very common issue here.  

My DH and I had the same problem with my ss when BM had custody.  SS would never come with a change of clothes and the clothes he had on were always too big or dirty.  We would buy him clothes and then send them home with him only for him to come back next time with ratty clothes on and no extra clothes with him.  So we had to start buying clothes just to keep at our house as we couldn't afford to buy new clothes every weekend he would come over.  We would have him change his clothes when he came and wash the ones he wore over so that he could wear them back home on Sundays.  

[gemini3]

I understand that this is kind of a petty issue, I think it would especially be in the eyes of the court - but I think it does become a more important issue when the children are consistently dressed in clothes that are inappropriate for the weather.  Shorts and short sleeved shirts when it's 50 degrees out is a problem as far as I'm concerned.  Especially when a child has already missed more than 50% of the allowable absences for the school year due to illness, and has a history of getting bronchitis and respitory problems.  To me, that's when it starts to become a real problem.

I've decided to just keep some good clothes here, and have the kids take a bath Sunday evening before dinner (they're usually dirty from playing outside anyway).  Then they can get dressed in the clothes their mom sent without it seeming like I'm making them change into crappy clothes before they go back to their moms.  That's what was concerning me the most - that I didn't want to do something that would make the kids feel bad or weird.  Hopefully this will help.

[notnew]

You misunderstand our postings I think. I don't think any of us feel this is a petty issue. It's just that the court doesn't see it as a valid issue to address AND it is very difficult to prove this in court. NOW, if the children are dressed improperly and someone from the school or other contact report this type of thing, then it would be investigated.

I hear you about the improperly dressed thing and missing school. Believe me, I've BTDT. Courts don't take it seriously. Schools buy sob stories and change grades and attendance records. Expert witness counselors lie. Children who have carrots in the form of no rules and no consequences buy into the same mindset and go along with the "I hate dad" program.

You are right with your final decision. Unfortunately, nothing you can do will make the kids feel any less weird or bad then the BM is already. My ex makes my child take a shower on Sunday evening despite having taken a shower at my house before leaving. The message? The child is "dirty" from being at my house and must be cleansed. How weird or bad to you think that makes the kid feel? There are sick people raising a lot of kids who will most likely have serious problems later on down the line. What can we really do in the long run?

It is a sad state of affairs for sure.

[wendl]

We had thsi problem too. We purchased clothes for our house and they stayed at our house.  Then went back in the holey clothes they came in.

We never made plans for Friday night as we didn't know what type of clothing they would be in.

When we moved to MT, the 1st winter the boys came they had a suitcase so I figured mom had packed clothing. NOPE in the suitecase was a PILLOW and a cell phone.  They came in spring shirts in -10 degree weather. By this time we did not have clothes that fit the kids.

Oss wore my sons old clothes, I borrowed clothes for yss from a friend and purchased hats and gloves and snowboats so they wouldn't freeze.

Now she is actuallly packing clothes approperaite for the weather (we only see them 2x a year so we don't purchased clothing for our house anymore.

But it is normal.  Good luck
**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[4honor]

We had the problem of BM going into court SAYING we never returned clothing that she had sent SS in.

We responded that her allegation was "denied" and then brought prooof that we had spent 40% of CS amount in addition to CS in order to clothe SS while at our home because BM refused to send clothing. We requested the court order a credit toward the CS or in the alternative to send size appropriate clean quality clothing which was weather appropriate for each visitation. She complied to the letter of the law.

Instead it has been a battle about SHOES!

[ocean]

Our BM turned to the shoes too!! LOL... I just went to Payless and bought cheap sneakers and then when she handed us the "bill" for medical I deducted the shoes. (Or just keep a cheap pair by you that fits...)

[MixedBag]

Clothes -- either they send ratty stuff, or you get accused of not sending them back.

What I want to throw out there is to suggest buying some of your own to keep at your home by shopping at Goodwill and stuff.

I went what I call "Goodwill hopping" last weekend on my 2100 mile weekend drive once a month to go get my son for a weekend and return home afterwards.

On the way north, I went to several different Goodwills -- heck, you gotta stop sometime to pee and get gas.  Well, the plain pit stops happened at Goodwill.  Got addresses and directions off the net before I left.

Found 3 pairs of awesome shorts for him and I was actually looking for something totally different.  GAP shorts for $3.50, Aeropostale shorts for $2, and an Old Navy pair for $2.  At that price, I don't mind if he only wears them for a short period of time which balances out the frustration of spending dollars on clothes that aren't worn often enough.

My EX#2 actually brought up this subject in court -- and yeppers, judge none too happy with him because EX pointed out that I buy stuff at Goodwill.  When the point was that I buy our son his clothes for when he is with me and I'm the NCP.  

Oh well, another tree just got used.