Custody Jurisdiction in NJ..Support Jurisdiction in NY...HELP!

[TPK]

Soc,


My wife took our infant daughter from the marital residence (NJ) and the child's home state (NJ) to NY. I have filed for custody in NJ which is scheduled for 12/17. It is a show of cause seeking custody hearing.

 While waiting for the NJ hearing, wife started a child support case in NY. I sent many letters to the magistrate stating the NY hearing should either be cancelled or postponed til the custody issue is resolved in NJ. This made sense to me so we wouldn't have 2 states running hearings that should all be in NJ.

1. Should the support hearing be in NJ??


 The support hearing in NY is 12/15!. The magistrate denied my request for an cancellation stating "support jurisdiction and custody jurisdiction are not the same"

 I have not seen my daughter since Aug 29th because my wife has secreted herself and the baby (making it impossible to even send any support). This is insane. My wife wants my money but doesn't want me to be a parent??


I plan to do the NY hearing via phone, so I don't have to travel. Magistrate said I could bring up any jurisdictional issues at the NY hearing as to why NY shouldn't hold the hearing.

1a. What jurisdictional issues or any issues should I bring up??

The marital residence was NJ, health coverage is still in NJ only. The only reason there is a hearing in NY is because my wife removed her to NY against my wishes.

2. Does my wife have to disclose a financial statement herself??

I am aware she has over $150,000+ in her accounts which she will probably omit. Lucky for me I have some of her bank statements with one showing $850.00 interest for one year on a simple savings account.

3. How much money would bring that kind of interest??

She pays no mortgage, no car payment (driving my car), no auto insurance (I'm still paying it), no healthcare (I'm still paying it) her overhead is practically Zero.

4. Will the NY court consider her Zero overhead??

She hasn't worked since the baby was born 4/11/04 but did apply for a job here in NJ in late August of which I have copies of (Job Application).

5.Should I send any financial info I have on her to the NY court along with mine??

6. Is it not legal to send that job application being that it is not public info and was obtained by subpoena??

7. We requested a Psych Eval on my wife (in NJ) due to her bizarre behavior, will this blow up in my face??

8. She never requested support by phone, mail etc...does she have to??


Yes I have lawyers, but I'm looking for opinions here from other people.

Thanks for listening, the legal system can be a painful crawl.

TK

[socrateaser]

>Soc,
>
>
>My wife took our infant daughter from the marital residence
>(NJ) and the child's home state (NJ) to NY. I have filed for
>custody in NJ which is scheduled for 12/17. It is a show of
>cause seeking custody hearing.
>
> While waiting for the NJ hearing, wife started a child
>support case in NY. I sent many letters to the magistrate
>stating the NY hearing should either be cancelled or postponed
>til the custody issue is resolved in NJ. This made sense to me
>so we wouldn't have 2 states running hearings that should all
>be in NJ.
>
>1. Should the support hearing be in NJ??

Without reading the exact text of every single letter, I cannot be certain, however, it's very, VERY likely that your letters to the magistrate have had the legal effect of your waiving your right to jurisdiction over the issue of support in NJ. I could tell you how you should have handled it, but "shoulda, woulda, coulda" ain't gonna help -- you're already screwed.

The good news, however, is that child support in NY only continues until age 21, whereas in NJ, it can continue for as long as the child is in school, including graduate school!!! So, you're probably better off in NY.

Also, you might want to check with both NY and NJ offices of Child Support Enforcement and try to figure out which state has the cheaper support guidelines. It could make a big difference in how much you will pay -- of course if you win custody (doubtful, but possible), then you could be receiving less, but, I'd say it's well worth that risk.

> The support hearing in NY is 12/15!. The magistrate denied my
>request for an cancellation stating "support jurisdiction and
>custody jurisdiction are not the same"
>
> I have not seen my daughter since Aug 29th because my wife
>has secreted herself and the baby (making it impossible to
>even send any support). This is insane. My wife wants my money
>but doesn't want me to be a parent??

I empathize with your situation. Ask yourself, the next time you step into a polling both, "Am I voting for someone today who will work to fix these insane family laws? If not, then I'm voting for someone else -- any one else, until the mainstream candidates start to listen!"

>I plan to do the NY hearing via phone, so I don't have to
>travel. Magistrate said I could bring up any jurisdictional
>issues at the NY hearing as to why NY shouldn't hold the
>hearing.

Really? Fascinating!

>1a. What jurisdictional issues or any issues should I bring
>up??

If you REALLY want jurisdiction for the purposes of support to be transferred to NJ, then you should immediately file for child support in NJ, so that you can tell the NY judge that a support action is pending in NJ. That way, the NJ judge will know that if he dismisses the action begun by your wife, that the child's best interests will be protected. And, you need to serve your wife with the support action, so I STRONGLY suggest that you drive up to NY and appear in person, if you can't serve her before the hearing.

Then assuming you have successfully done the above, recite the following to the judge:

START ORAL ARGUMENT

"Your honor, may it please the court. I appear today for the sole purpose of challenging NY's jurisdicdtion over this matter. My wife left NJ with our minor child on ??/??/??, without any notice or forwarding address, and I have been unable to locate or visit my child since that date. A custody and support action is currently pending in NJ, and although this NY support action was filed first, I do not work, reside or do business in NY, nor do I have any other minimum contacts with the forum State that would make it fair for me to defend a civil action in this jurisdiction.

Additionally, the current custody action filed in NJ has priority over any NY action, and there is a substantial connection between all of the parties to NJ for the purposes of determining our child's best interests concerning custody and support.

My wife has not alleged any abuse on my part in her pleadings, and this court should not permit her to be rewarded for removing and secreting our child from the jurisdiction of NJ, just to punish me, because to do so offends the fair play and substantial justice to which I am entitled under due process of law.

Beyond all of this, should NY take jurisdiction over the support issue, the parties will be forever bouncing between jurisdictions to resolve their mutual disputes, which is not judicially efficient, and not in the parties' or the child's best interests.

Therefore, the court should dismiss the current support action as occuring in an inconvenient forum, and permit the entire process to be held under the jurisdiction of the NJ courts.

Thank you, your honor."

END OF ORAL ARGUMENT

If that don't do it, then nothing will, buddy.
>
>The marital residence was NJ, health coverage is still in NJ
>only. The only reason there is a hearing in NY is because my
>wife removed her to NY against my wishes.

>2. Does my wife have to disclose a financial statement
>herself??

Depends on NY law. I'd say yes, but I'm not an expert on NY law.

>
>I am aware she has over $150,000+ in her accounts which she
>will probably omit. Lucky for me I have some of her bank
>statements with one showing $850.00 interest for one year on a
>simple savings account.
>
>3. How much money would bring that kind of interest??

You can do the math. This question is irrelevant, but it does demonstrate that you are emotionally out of control, and you're gonna get your ass kicked if you whine like this in front of a judge. So, get a grip!

>
>She pays no mortgage, no car payment (driving my car), no auto
>insurance (I'm still paying it), no healthcare (I'm still
>paying it) her overhead is practically Zero.
>
>4. Will the NY court consider her Zero overhead??

You have the obligation to make a case, if you can't then you'll get beat up. I strongly suggest that you retain an attorney, cause I can see you're about to get creamed.

>
>She hasn't worked since the baby was born 4/11/04 but did
>apply for a job here in NJ in late August of which I have
>copies of (Job Application).
>
>5.Should I send any financial info I have on her to the NY
>court along with mine??

Oy vey. Both parties must disclose their financials, and you have the right to try to prove that it's in the child's best interest that the mother work. Generally, custody is determined first, and then child support is applied to the apportioned parenting time. However, as there is current custody order, and you haven't tried to get the NJ court to order the mother to return the child to NJ, the NY court will assume that you will exercise zero parenting time, and therefore your wife's earning capacity, and/or actual income will be irrelevant.

You seem pretty intelligent, and considering the amount of money to which your wife apparently has access, I'm starting to wonder what's wrong with this picture -- why don't you have an attorney dealing with this -- you are clearly too emotional to do anything but shoot yourself in the foot -- and believe me -- you are, it just hasn't started really bleeding yet.

>
>6. Is it not legal to send that job application being that it
>is not public info and was obtained by subpoena??

Huh? Listen, if the court doesn't dismiss on jurisdictional grounds, you're gonna get slaughtered. CALL A LAWYER and have him appear in NY and challenge jurisdiction, and if that fails, ask for a continuance for purposes of obtaining discovery.
>
>7. We requested a Psych Eval on my wife (in NJ) due to her
>bizarre behavior, will this blow up in my face??

No.

>
>8. She never requested support by phone, mail etc...does she
>have to??

You mean like mitigating damages in a contract action. LOL! No! There is only ONE rule in family law: "The person who comes to court with defacto custody of the child(ren) wins all the marbles."

(I wonder if I'm getting through to this schmuck yet? Hope so.)

>
>Yes I have lawyers, but I'm looking for opinions here from
>other people.

(now he tells me...I should have started reading from the bottom.)
>
>Thanks for listening, the legal system can be a painful
>crawl.

Your welcome, but only a root canal is as painful as reading your post!

Just kidding...hope you win, but from what I'm reading, I'm betting on a not very Happy Holiday. I'll keep a candle buring for you.

[TPK]

"If you REALLY want jurisdiction for the purposes of support to be transferred to NJ, then you should immediately file for child support in NJ, so that you can tell the NY judge that a support action is pending in NJ. That way, the NJ judge will know that if he dismisses the action begun by your wife, that the child's best interests will be protected. And, you need to serve your wife with the support action, so I STRONGLY suggest that you drive up to NY and appear in person, if you can't serve her before the hearing"

Too late for that. NY hearing is 12/15 and she's hidden herself so service is near impossible.



"Oy vey. Both parties must disclose their financials, and you have the right to try to prove that it's in the child's best interest that the mother work. Generally, custody is determined first, and then child support is applied to the apportioned parenting time. However, as there is current custody order, and you haven't tried to get the NJ court to order the mother to return the child to NJ, the NY court will assume that you will exercise zero parenting time, and therefore your wife's earning capacity, and/or actual income will be irrelevant"

Yes we did ask the NJ court to order daughter's return. We didn't get that for some reason.  My guess is Judge didn't want to take child from Mom.

"I wonder if I'm getting through to this schmuck yet? Hope so"


You went from calling me intelligent  to referring to me as a "schmuck" for all of the forum to see. I had posted this situation in another forum and someone suggested I post it here. I'm looking for advice, but instead got insulted.

This might be a laughable situation to you where you feel insults are necessary, but this is a VERY difficult time for me and I find no humor in it whatsoever.

"This board maintains an extremely objective and professional attitude"

Is calling someone a "schmuck" objective and professional???

Not knowing your credentials, I would think that if you were a lawyer and referred to a client as a "schmuck", they wouldn't be retaining your services much longer now would they??

People post here that are in desperate need of advice, and yes they might be "emotionally out of control" as to be expected, but they are not looking to be insulted.

Having said that, your oral argument was well written and I appreciate the help, but try to keep the insults to yourself in the future....please.

TPK

[socrateaser]

My record speaks for itself. I don't get accolades for my bedside manner. People come here because they want to win. I have had only one "loser" in the past three years, and that person did the exact opposite of everything I suggested, just as if he was intent on self destruction. Everyone else has achieved a better outcome as the result of my help.

I was trying to keep it light, frankly, because I have been doing this for many years, and I can usually tell when a poster is leaving out very important facts about their case, that makes them look good and the other party bad, AND, more importantly, it makes it impossible for me to deliver any real assistance.

So, although everything in my previous answer is completely relevant and precisely what you should be doing, if you tell me both sides of the story, maybe I can offer some even better aid.

>Too late for that. NY hearing is 12/15 and she's hidden
>herself so service is near impossible.

"Near impossible," means that service IS POSSIBLE, just difficult. At the worst, you could serve her by filing those papers with the NY court, or handing them to her in the courtroom, and telling the court with her listening that you have filed them. The judge will tell her that she's had constructive notice and that she should "come on down" and see what you've filed.

You could also effect service by publication in a newspaper that ordinarily circulates in the county where you reasonably believe she is located. And, you KNOW where she's located -- she's located in the county where she has FILED her support action, so you CAN serve her. If you haven't served her, it's only because you have chosen not to so do.

Moreover, you cannot plead poverty here anymore, because your prior facts evidence that your wife has a substantial amount of money ($150K+). And, experience tells me that when the wife has money, the man usually has MORE money, or at least a fair amount. So, even if she's drafted your joint bank accounts down to zero, you still have credit cards, and you could get this job done if you really wanted.

>Yes we did ask the NJ court to order daughter's return. We
>didn't get that for some reason.  My guess is Judge didn't
>want to take child from Mom.

Your "guess?" If you alleged in an ex-parte emergency hearing for temporary custody, that the mother had secreted the child away, and there was no allegation by the mother of abuse on your part, then the NJ judge would not have denied your request for an order to return the child to NJ for "some reason."  The court would have told you the EXACT reason, or ordered the child's return, ESPECIALLY if you were represented by an attorney.

I suggest that you KNOW the reason, or at least you KNOW exactly what the judge said, or what your attorney told you that the judge said.

>Not knowing your credentials, I would think that if you were
>a lawyer and referred to a client as a "schmuck", they
>wouldn't be retaining your services much longer now would they??

Are you interested in retaining my services? I charge $350 per hour -- but, I still may call you a "schmuck" if you act like one. As for not knowing my credentials, hey, nobody twisted your arm to post here, but you evidently thought that my "credentials" were sufficiently credible or you wouldn't have asked me for help.

>People post here that are in desperate need of advice, and
>Yes they might be "emotionally out of control" as to be
>expected, but they are not looking to be insulted.

Try to imagine the worst thing that could happen to you, and then compare it to what is actually happening to you now. Let me enumerate some things that may make you feel a little better by comparison:

a. You don't have 3rd degree burns over 60% of your body.
b. You are not a prisoner of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
c. You are not a quadrapelegic.
d. Your child is not dead.
e. You don't have intestinal cancer (victims die by aspirating and drowning their own stool).
f. You don't have Lou Gehrig's disease (victims with perfectly healthy brains die as they slowly watch their body parts fail).
g. You are not a leper (victims die watching their body parts fall off).

I think that's about enough. You have troubles -- so do the rest of us. Stand up and be a man. Nothing a woman hates more than an emotionally weak man.

>Having said that, your oral argument was well written and I
>appreciate the help, but try to keep the insults to yourself
>in the future....please.

Gee thanks. You really don't know just how good my oral argument is, but if it comports with the actual facts of your case, then that argument, if presented along with papers showing that a support hearing is filed for in NJ, should get NY to dismiss your wife's petition for support. If it doesn't, then the magistrate failed civil procedure class.

You need to calm down (and stop railing at me, because I could give a rip) and evaluate what's really happening in your life and why things are not going your way. It's certainly possible that your wife is suffering from some disease of the mind that has caused her to run off with your child. However, usually paranoid schizophrenics don't have the mental capacity to file a child support action, so I'm betting that's not the circumstance, here.

I'll tell you what -- why don't we start over, and you tell everyone just exactly what's going on, leaving nothing out, no matter how much it may sting. If you don't, I'll understand, but I can't really help as long as I'm in the dark.

[TPK]

Be prepared for a very long winded story. I tried to keep the original post as short as possible.

The whole story will actually make me look better and my wife much worse.

We married in July 2003, had our daughter Rachael in April 2004. Yes, things did move fast as you can tell.

We lived in NJ, but she still had her home in NY which we visited every other weekend for upkeep etc.

She took our child the week of Aug 23 to NY and said she was never coming back to NJ.

First of all, my wife is originally from NY. When we got married we decided to keep our NJ-NY money accounts seperate til we moved to Pa. which was a "business related" move as I am President of my own business and wanted to buy a bldg. & house in Pa. cuz it's WAY too expensive to live in NJ.

This is where "her accounts" come in. She has the amount I specified originally in several NY accounts. She was "gifted" $96K by her parents to her in Dec 2003. This was actually done without my knowledge, only finding out about it later thru a 3rd party.

She's really a nomadic worker, she shuffles thru so many menial jobs and has never made any real money. Her real money is in her accounts, which gives her reason to not apply herself to a real job.

Shortly after I filed my original complaint (for a show of cause hearing in NJ) in early October, she filed a falsified petition for an order of protection in NY (stay away order of protection).  She used an incident that happened in NJ in May 2004 as her basis for the order of protection.

The incident in NJ she alleged was that I had assaulted her and would not let her call the cops. I proved her story to be false by obtaining the Police report from that incident. The real story was that she attacked me and the yelling was so loud that someone called the cops but it wasn't her. Yes, she attacked me, that is the absolute truth. This is where her bizarre behavior started, and it was less than a month after birth. I had figured she had PPD at the time.

The police report stated that we were arguing and that "my wife called the police" The report was wrong in that aspect, but the error actually helped me in court.

She stated in her petition that I hadn't given her any support since July, that's where this support issue started. Apparently, she found out after filing the OOP that she couldn't ask for support and she would have to file that seperate.

While in NY on business, a police chief of that town serves me with this phony order of protection. Needless to say, I was LIVID.

Now I had to go to this hearing in NY on 11/1. Luckily for me, my Aunt's longtime boyfriend and also a close family friend from Pa. was allowed to represent me in NY even though he's not admitted to practice there. I found this to be a small victory for me as he's a former assistant DA and has his own firm now. Best part was he did it for FREE.

My wife had a dingbat lawyer in NY, some woman who appeared hapless.

My daughter was appointed a law guardian in NY for that hearing. I had the chance to sit with the guardian and explain my side for a 1/2 hour prior to the hearing. I stated the facts, did not hammer my wife and the whole time the guardian seemed to agree with me on everything.

Judge calls the lawyers and guardian inside first. Judge looks at wife's OOP petition and is concerned about the assault in NJ. My lawyer pulls out the police report. He gives it to everyone. Judge says there's no basis for th OOP. My lawyer tells judge I haven't seen daughter in months.

Judge tells lawyers to go outside and hammer out a visitation plan for me. Wife's lawyer comes back with ~every other Saturday at wife's house for about 5 hours~ My lawyer and the guardian reject this. We ask for (in NJ) Fri. 5pm to Sunday 5pm with the exchange of the child at the local police dept.

My wife wants on OOP on me but will allow visitation at her house? That was insane. No way I'm putting myself at her house, God know what I'll be accused of next.

Judge places an order for Sat 9am to Sun 6pm in NJ. Let me say that during this hearing my wife was constantly in her lawyer's ear clearly calling the shots. Wife's lawyer objects to judge's proposed visitation and wife makes lawyer withdraw the family offense thus voiding everything.

The judge was prepared to give my wife temp custody as judge was aware that there was  NJ hearing pending. So, wife withdraws offense (this was in NY family court) and nobody has custody and I get no visitation.

Upon leaving the NY court, wife's lawyer gives me the summons support for the 12/15 hearing.

Let me back up a bit. Regarding the original NJ SOC hearing, that was in late Oct. Wife didn't show. She sent the NJ judge a letter flaming me and that she NEVER lived in NJ. She had her lawyer state that "service was defficient" because my wife wasn't served the original complaint.

When she left NJ, she did not go back to her original NY residence. This is when she started hiding. I lost contact with her and was informed she was not at her New Paltz address by her brother who had tried to call, visit, email and could not get her.

Her brother and I teamed up. He snooped around for me and thought he had located her at her's sister's house. Her brother confronted the sister and said he'd call the police if she didn't tell him where my wife and daughter were.

Sister admitted they were hiding, but would not tell him where or let him in to check her house.

So, we tried to serve her at the sister's house via UPS. UPS gave her the package and shows it was signed by someone with my last name.

So she tells the judge in NJ that she wasn't served. We know she was served but judge needs solid ID for service. Judge tells us he has to dismiss the case without prejudice. I was LIVID.

My attorney & I huddle the next week. I tell him to subpoena everything to prove she lived her. That would include her employment records, disability she r'cvd from NJ, filing for unemployment, paying NJ taxes for 2003, and lastly a job application in NJ that was submitted on 8/17.

So we get all the info subpoenaed and have to serve her again. She's still hiding of course. I find out she's has a Dr. appt. for our daughter on 11/23. We use a service company this time. The server is with wife's brother to help ID her. She shows at Dr., server nails her...done.

NJ Judge has a telecon with NY judge about jurisdiction. Result of telecon is NJ has jurisdiction so Nj judge schedules another show of cause hearing seeking custody for 12/17.

Now we have to serve her again with the papers for the date of the court hearing. We use same service co. again. They go to her original residence and SHE'S THERE!. First time she's been there in months. Server is banging on the door, she won't come out. She calls cops. Cops come and wife wants server arrested for harassment. Cops ask server what he's doing there. Server states he's just doing his job. Cops leave without incident. She still won't come out. Server leaves papers at front door.

So, that's where we are legally at this point. We had figued the NY support hearing would be cancelled but it wasn't. Yes, that's my fault that I didn't act sooner and should never assume anything.

Now...onto my financial issues.

I took over a floundering family business that was "borrowed to the hilt" in 2000.  I took on a "nut" that was larger than what my wife has in her accounts. It's now years later, and I have dug my way out of most of the debt and spend as little as possible on myself. I try to keep the $$ in the business so I'll succeed with this venture. I drained most of my accounts when taking over the business. Credit cards maxed, spared no expense to try to survive. In poker terms...I went "All-In"

So, yes, I have LESS money than my wife, far less to be exact and that is the truth. Some weeks I don't take pay unless I need it. I still rent my house, rent my business bldg as well. I am 34 with NO college education, and learned to run a business on my own. I learned my industry thru my father who is 67 and works part time for me. It's just him & I. I basically run my business myself, working tireless hours to try to make this work.

So this whole marital/child mess is quite stressing for me, and makes it hard to even function at times.  The legal bills will start to mount, but I'll do anything to get custody/visitation of my daughter because she is the MOST important thing in my life.

I was always a good dad, I did more than my share. Changing diapers, feeding, bathing, playing, doing night watch, going strolling,  I did every bit as much as my wife did.

Now she's gone and there's an empty feeling.

It is AGONIZING not being able to see my infant daughter, she has been ripped away for no good reason. My right to be a parent has been violated unjustly. I will never give up though, I'm in it for the long haul.


I can now understand how people end up dead over messy marital/child cases like mine.

So, you have the whole story now.

Insights??

TPK

[TPK]

>You could also effect service by publication in a newspaper
>that ordinarily circulates in the county where you reasonably
>believe she is located. And, you KNOW where she's located --
>she's located in the county where she has FILED her support
>action, so you CAN serve her.

Actually, the county where we "believe" she is in is not the same County as where the court is or her original address. I have no real proof of where she "sleeps" at nite, I can only guess.

>Your "guess?" If you alleged in an ex-parte emergency hearing
>for temporary custody, that the mother had secreted the child
>away, and there was no allegation by the mother of abuse on
>your part, then the NJ judge would not have denied your
>request for an order to return the child to NJ for "some
>reason."  The court would have told you the EXACT reason, or
>ordered the child's return, ESPECIALLY if you were represented
>by an attorney.


I had asked my lawyer "Why" and he guessed that judge was keeping status quo. Judge knew all about secretion, no visitation for me etc....didn't seem to matter. The judge denied us twice.


>Are you interested in retaining my services? I charge $350 per
>hour -?

What state are you in??



>
> You really don't know just how good my oral
>argument is, but if it comports with the actual facts of your
>case, then that argument, if presented along with papers
>showing that a support hearing is filed for in NJ, should get
>NY to dismiss your wife's petition for support. If it doesn't,
>then the magistrate failed civil procedure class.

"Should" sounds hopeful, if this plain failed I'd be out more legal fees. Besides, you told me earlier that NJ goes to graduate school for CS when NY is only 21. It seems like a no-win situation.



It's certainly possible
>that your wife is suffering from some disease of the mind that
>has caused her to run off with your child. However, usually
>paranoid schizophrenics don't have the mental capacity to file
>a child support action, so I'm betting that's not the
>circumstance, here.

I think I have proven you wrong here with my previous post stating all the facts. She is a mental mess for sure, and even admitted so a few weeks back when she called my father and said "I wasn't mentally right in August" That conversation was turned over to my attorney who is having Dad file an affidavit to the contents of the conversation.

A few other tidbits I left out. She refuses to take the child to the Dr. She did so only after reading about my concerns in the complaint I filed. Child has seen the Dr 2 times since birth. She refuses vaccination, and believes in that MMR/Autism link which has since been retracted. She won't let my parents see the child. She won't let her brothers see the child. She has isolated the child. Something is wrong with her.

Question


1. Do you agree that I'm getting hosed here??

2. Regarding vaccinations, how does the court generally rule if parent wants it and other parent doesn't??



TPK

[socrateaser]

>Question
>
>1. Do you agree that I'm getting hosed here??

The question is irrelevant. There is no right or wrong in the courtroom. Courts are the modern day replacement for the dual -- the nobles were all killing each other off, so they decided to send their squires into battle with pens instead of swords.

So, forget about getting hosed. Your goal is to win the best outcome that you can and move on with your life. Dwelling on fairness will destroy you.

>2. Regarding vaccinations, how does the court generally rule
>if parent wants it and other parent doesn't??

It depends on your custody orders, which you don't have, so at the moment, you can both theoretically and leglly overrule each others decision continuously until a court makes appropriate orders.

[socrateaser]

OK, I've reviewed your facts in all of the posts.

First, I am assuming the following as the procedural posture of this case:

1. There are no temporary orders in force and effect at present in either NY or NJ.

2. There is a 12/15 child support hearing calendared in NY, filed by your wife, and you have been served lawful notice.

3.  There is a 12/17 custody hearing calendared in NJ, filed by you and your wife has been served lawful notice.

OK, with that said, if I were representing you, and knowing how totally hosed up (stealing your explitive) the NJ court system is, I would probably suggest that you let NY decide the entire matter, custody, support, divorce, etc. And, by the way, there's the little matter of spousal support, that's gonna come up, and NJ is definitely not the place you wanna be when it comes to paying alimony, especially if your wife turns out to be mentally ill -- because you could find yourself supporting her for the rest of her life. Not that this couldn't happen in NY, too, if I were gambling, I'd rather gamble in NY.

There's another reason why I would go that way. I don't know your NJ attorney, but frankly, if you had evidence that the OOP was withdrawn in NY because your wife didn't want you to have any visitation, and further that it was obviously manufactured in the first place to frustrate your access to the child, then either your NJ attorney is, well, to be kind, not very good, or the judge is biased against men beyond words, and in either case, you can avoid both of these evils by withdrawing the NJ action entirely, and refiling in NY.

So, I would try to get a NY lawyer, to go in and get a continuance, on grounds that he hasn't had sufficient time to obtain discovery of the parties' financial circumstances, and simulataneously file for custody, and then serve your wife at the hearing -- either personally, or constructively by asking the court to judicially notice the filing while your wife is on the phone.

Then, hopefully you will get a more even handed judge and an attorney who knows how to advance his client's interests.

Does that mean you've wasted a bunch of dough already? Yep, but better to waste in now, then waste it over the next 20+ years.

I think you may just dodge a big bullet if you do as I suggest.

[TPK]

>
>First, I am assuming the following as the procedural posture
>of this case:
>
>1. There are no temporary orders in force and effect at
>present in either NY or NJ.
>
>2. There is a 12/15 child support hearing calendared in NY,
>filed by your wife, and you have been served lawful notice.
>
>3.  There is a 12/17 custody hearing calendared in NJ, filed
>by you and your wife has been served lawful notice.

All correct.



>OK, with that said, if I were representing you, and knowing
>how totally hosed up (stealing your explitive) the NJ court
>system is, I would probably suggest that you let NY decide the
>entire matter, custody, support, divorce, etc. And, by the
>way, there's the little matter of spousal support, that's
>gonna come up, and NJ is definitely not the place you wanna be
>when it comes to paying alimony, especially if your wife turns
>out to be mentally ill -- because you could find yourself
>supporting her for the rest of her life. Not that this
>couldn't happen in NY, too, if I were gambling, I'd rather
>gamble in NY.


Not what I wanted to hear, but I'm listening.



>There's another reason why I would go that way. I don't know
>your NJ attorney, but frankly, if you had evidence that the
>OOP was withdrawn in NY because your wife didn't want you to
>have any visitation, and further that it was obviously
>manufactured in the first place to frustrate your access to
>the child, then either your NJ attorney is, well, to be kind,
>not very good, or the judge is biased against men beyond
>words, and in either case, you can avoid both of these evils
>by withdrawing the NJ action entirely, and refiling in NY.


NJ lawyer has submitted to the court this OOP issue, and I'm sure the NY judge told the NJ judge what happened at the OOP hearing. I must say the NY judge was not too happy with my wife.


After the NY hearing, law guardian approaches me. She tells me "if you go back in there now and file for custody, you'll get your daughter today" I'm guessing that law guardian would've requested that I get custody. I'm also guessing that when the guardian spoke to my wife, she did nothing but flame me, which I did not do to her.

The judge in NY said I could file for  temp. custody if NY was indeed the home state. It is not the home state as we know. I wanted to keep the venue in NJ but sometimes think I blew it by not going back into the courtroom in NY and filing. I was confused at the time, and I'm still green at all this legal stuff.

I listened to my NJ lawyer and my lawyer friend who repped me in NY. They both said to keep the venue in NJ.



>I think you may just dodge a big bullet if you do as I
>suggest.

You seem to have read the judges the exact way I have. The NY judge seemed to favor me more, and the NJ judge seems to be on wife's side.  Without actually getting my wife in NJ court yet, I'm still curious as to what NJ judge will do.


Just a few more questions and we'll lay this to rest until these hearings conclude next week.



1. How will the NJ judge react to all the lies my wife has spewed?? Not ever spending a day in court prior to this, I'm sure lying is prevelant in the courts.


2. Doesn't duration of marriage matter in alimony decisions?? It's only been 14 months or so with us.


3. Can I request receipts for the CS as to what it's being spent on??


4. Do I get a copy of, and does she get a copy of any financial disclosures we submit??

5. If so on #4, can I challenge anything I feel she omitted??


I thank you kindly for your time, and your advice. As stated I do have lawyers but I look at this in a medical way...kinda like getting a second opinion if needed. I used to think a lawyer is a lawyer and your splitting hairs when comparing them. I now see this is not true, and some lawyers are indeed better than others.

Regards

TPK

>
>
>
>
>

[socrateaser]

>1. How will the NJ judge react to all the lies my wife has
>spewed?? Not ever spending a day in court prior to this, I'm
>sure lying is prevelant in the courts.

Everyone lies in court. The judges are used to it. I can't read your judge's mind, but I can react to what's already happened. You had grounds to have the judge order the child returned to NJ and he didn't do it. Ordinarily, once a judge has ruled on a matter, there's no way to get rid of him, absent his death on the bench. But, your wife doesn't want NJ to have jurisdiction, so you have an unusual opportunity to forum shop.

The tradeoff is that your argument for penalizing your wife for running off with the kid is substantially diminished by filing for custody in NY. However, I would reverse it and tell the judge that we are filing in NY because we don't want the child to be any more traumatized by all of the mother's shenanegans, and that in the interest of judicial efficiency and to facilitate both support and custody being determined in the same place, that you will withdraw your petition from NJ, and file in NY, but that you believe that you are the better primary custodian, because, unlike your wife, you will not frustrate her access to the child, and that you are the more stable provider.

...and so on and so forth. It's still a crap shoot...I always prefer a settlement, but that depends on getting the other party to the table -- which in this case doesn't seem likely.

>2. Doesn't duration of marriage matter in alimony decisions??
>It's only been 14 months or so with us.

Yes, but NJ is the most backwards family jurisdiction in the U.S (my opinion of course). If I were to bet on which state court would give your wife the maximum possible spousal support, I would bet NJ.

>3. Can I request receipts for the CS as to what it's being
>spent on??

Depends on the jurisdiction. As far as I am aware, only Colorado permits this as a matter of statutory law. Everywhere else, the answer is a resounding NO!

>4. Do I get a copy of, and does she get a copy of any
>financial disclosures we submit??

Yes.

>
>5. If so on #4, can I challenge anything I feel she omitted??

Yes, but child support is based on actual income, first, and earning capacity if actual income is disputed. Assets are generally irrelevant to the process, so your wife can have a million bucks in the bank, and you're gonna pay nearly the same amount of support as if she had zero, assuming that she is awarded custody. And, as she presently has 100% defacto custody, her income will not be factored into the equation -- only yours will matter.

>I thank you kindly for your time, and your advice. As stated I
>do have lawyers but I look at this in a medical way...kinda
>like getting a second opinion if needed. I used to think a
>lawyer is a lawyer and your splitting hairs when comparing
>them. I now see this is not true, and some lawyers are indeed
>better than others.

Former chief justice Burger of the U.S. Supreme Court once stated that 70% of the lawyers in the U.S. are incompetent to practice law.

I think he was being kind to the other 30%.

One more thing. You need to stop thinking about your wife as someone who you love and who loved you. No matter how much it hurts, when you are dealing with this, she is your business competitor. I won't say enemy, because that's too emotionally charged in the other direction. You must treat this as nothing more or less than a lawsuit over a contract, because if you don't, your emotions will cloud your thinking and you will lose.

Your wife may be nuts, or she may be lucid, but regardless, she has left you and that's all that matters. My experience is that the fastest way to get a woman interested in you again is to show her that you are not afraid to lose her, and then get the better of her in the courtroom (and, this includes women attorneys).

If you show weakness or emotion to her, you'll lose inside the courtroom and out. You need to be funny and self confident, because that will make her doubt herself. And I can tell, from your posts that you've been doing the reverse.

So, chant this mantra, "It's nothing personal, it's just business..." until you believe it.