Wife took daughter out of kindergarten (long)

[T_Man]

I've got a pretty messed up marriage, no abuse or legal issues but my wife came from a pretty bad family. After tons of separations and me filing for divorce, and reconciliations, and so forth, I thought everything would be okay if I could just get my daughter in kindergarten here. If we ended up divorced, at least I'd be in the same town she went to school in, and my wife and I had decided that if that happened we would do joint custody anyway.

My wife and our two kids have been living together here for the past 3 months. Man, it was so hard to get my daughter to go to kindergarten without crying. With all she's been through, and her mom yanking her off to another town and living at a different address every week while she scams for various benefits and so forth. Although this is really her home it was like taking a kid to a new town and starting her in school at the same time.

Her mom has about an 8th grade education and was a dropout, so you can imagine what her upbringing was like. And her attitude about my daughter and school. If I say I want to save money for her to go to college, she's like, "Well, what if she doesn't want to go to college?" if I tell her she's staying up to late, she says, "Well, what if she doesn't feel like going to school tomorrow?" She's caused her to miss the bus several times already, kept her up late where she's falling asleep in school, it's all at the point where my daughter's come home crying many times.

I come home at lunch today, my wife left a note, basically, "I went to (a town her mom lives in) to take care of some stuff (various issues with welfare and pick up a check there which amounts to under $100), call me at xxx-xxxx, I love you, come and get me Sunday."

In the meantime though, my daughter's missed school today (2nd day in 2 weeks), is going to miss tomorrow (this is like 250 miles away), and when I said she's going to end up repeating kindergarten, my wife said "Nah, she's got like 30 days before they'll flunk her." (Number one it's actually 20.) She's under the impression that she's got 6 weeks of her school year if she wants it to just keep her out of school and "think about stuff".

I called my lawyer and he said he thought kindergarten wasn't necessarily mandatory in Missouri, so I might not be able to force her to let my daughter go even after the 5 days that something may happen otherwise.

I don't think I've ever been so sad for my child and so unconcerned about myself as I am right now. The whole basis of how she's able to do this is all the benefits she never quit receiving while we were back together. She left a HUD house to various family members to use to "crash" for 3 months. Somehow her mom paid the rent (while being evicted from her own house and staying there) and she just takes off for a little vacation in her mind. She told me on the phone while ago she intends to stop all the benefit crap while she's up there, but left the door open for herself to say at any point she doesn't like what I said and will do whatever she wants.

I mean, my daughter hasn't even went 20 days yet and now she's basically staying with 8 people in some project house meant for 3, not going to school. If she's held back she will literally graduate Kindergarten at the age of 7, and high school at the age of 19 if ever. She's now terrified of school and even started telling her teacher she has tummyaches to try to get home sooner. This started after she missed the bus one day and has gone downhill since.

If I take any action like call child welfare or something, she'll surely find something crazy to do to me, even 250 miles away. In the meantime my daughter at best is facing an incredibly hard adjustment when and if she gets back. My wife's already putting tons of conditions on if I do come and get everybody. Like I'd have to borrow my parent's new van, cause she has stuff up there. She can't tell me an exact date I would be able to get them. I'm not supposed to talk to my lawyer. On and on. Any thing that pops in her head at the moment to see if she can get a rise out of me. But it's so frustrating, because all I really want is for my daughter to be happy. I'm on the phone with my wife and my daughter's screaming and crying and pissing her pants.

I didn't even mention our year old son, I mean he's just as important but at least he doesn't have to deal with explaining to 5 year old friends why mommy has him in this school or that school or why he was gone for a week.

Sorry for the long whiney post, but man I've just been devastated. It's one thing to feel sorry for yourself for whatever reason, but to feel like you've let your daughter's happiness and future slip away is just total despair.

[MYSONSDAD]

She is setting a very bad example for those kids. Apparently, she can not give them stability and kids need that.

Start documenting what is going on. The school, will sooner or later step in. Better you do things now.

You need to be the  responsible parent that will take control of the situation. She can not go thru life like this and drag your kids with her.


"Children learn what they live"

[T_Man]

I know what you mean about documenting and trying to be the better person, but as I said we've got a kid in diapers too which gives me even less of a say. What's bothering me is that basically if I can't talk her out of what she's doing (maybe I can, maybe I can't) and have no real way to stop her (even though as I said much of what she's doing is technically illegal), then after she's gotten away with this for awhile it will be all downhill, she'll know she can get away with about anything.

I felt when I called my lawyer this afternoon that he might offer to file some sort of emergency order forcing her to let my daughter resume school, instead he basically said all we can do is set a trial date. Guys, looking at some of these links on "parental kidnapping" and then realizing you can't even ask that your child not be taken out of school is really depressing.

I hope you're right when you say the school might step in, but again technically it's not illegal to choose to not send your child to kindergarten, although that loophole is probably meant more for homeschoolers (I guess it could have been put there for this situation too now that I think of it. Give moms an extra year to jerk around fathers.) The catch is though, it's doubtful after that's happened your kid will ever resume normal schooling. I've read that some schools will take a kid who didn't complete kindergarten and place them in slower programs (which they'll undoubtedly be stuck in for life); some like I think this one does would make her repeat kindergarten.

But really I guess what's really grating on me is that she discusses issues like yanking her from school the way somebody talks about taking out the trash or what they ate for lunch that day if you know what I mean. I'm not really dealing so much here with a woman who thinks she's in the right and striking out for what's rightfully hers as somebody who just seems to have few deep feelings about anything. It's just pure sociopathy, I mean if you told her you ran over a priest on the way home from work she'd say, "Really? Are we ordering pizza tonight or getting tacos?"

 Okay, as long as I've made another post so long that nobody gives a shit I'll tell a true story along that line, not to ask what a judge would say (I doubt he'd be interested) but so you know I'm not just namecalling: Me, her, and my daughter are driving. The car starts to stall. I stop at my parent's house to look at the car. We go inside, they're not there but she needed to use the phone for something or other. I go outside, have a funny feeling the intake's stopped up. I pop off the cover and there's a friggin' kitten that got sucked in there and is sticking half way out with it's eyeball's sucked out. I relay the story to her and she says, "Oh really? Yeah, I called such and such and they can fit me in for a haircut at 3." or some trivial thing. I don't think I've ever seen another incident of someone being more disconnected from reality in my life. I mean, this kitten was hanging around our doorstep and our daughter had been playing with it, then I just pried it out of the car with a screwdriver and she says, "Really?" in a monotonous tone like Ben Stein or something. Say what you want about you guys' exes, but if you have better anecdotes than that I want to hear 'em.

[Peanutsdad]

Trust me, you DONT wanna hear em.

I think you need a different attorney.

Tips For Getting Started
http://www.deltabravo.net/news/10-19-2000.htm

How To Hire An Attorney
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/hiring.htm

Hiring An Effective Attorney
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/effective.htm

Success Factors In Obtaining Custody
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tips.htm

For Move aways: ( Thanx Brent!!)
              

Immediately file a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO). In the TRO, specify that the children are to be prevented from leaving the State.

Also, read these:

Preventing Domestic Move-Aways
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/moving.htm

Preparing For A Move-Away Battle
http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/moveaway.htm

One of the first things you'll hear around here is "Document, document, document!". Having good records is *crucial*. Get yourself either the Parenting Time Tracker (PTT) at: http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tracker.htm or the OPTIMAL Custody Tracking service at: http://www.parentingtime.net. The PTT is good, but the OPTIMAL service is definitely better.


http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/acronyms.htm

[Kitty C.]

This lady is seriously mentally ill and should NOT have those children in her custody right now.  Did she see your daughter playing with that kitten?  Someone who has no more reaction to what you described than picking lint off their coat is HIGHLY suspicious.  To the point that it even makes me wonder if she had something to do with it.

Have you ever seen her be cruel (and not in an angry way) to people 'beneath her' or animals?  Have there been any other instances where others emotional reactions have been socially appropriate but hers is practically non-existant?

I agree, you definitely need a new atty. And have a conversation with the school, most specifically with her teacher and guidance counselor.  Has the mother ever been to the school and what is their opinion of her?  How is the daughter reacting socially and emotionally at school, especially with other children?

Normally I don't recommend DHS/CPS involvement, but this huge red flag I'm seeing tells me that there MUST be outside involvement.  In fact, if you still are legally married, and there is no CO establishing temp. custody, then you have EVERY right to go get those children.  I try NOT to be an alarmist, but from what you described, those children could very possibly be in danger if left where they are, and there isn't someone there who can immediately intervene, in case something does happen.

JMO, but I'd be going there and getting those children any way I could.  This woman sounds psychotic..........

[heather2662]

"Okay, as long as I've made another post so long that nobody gives a shit I'll tell a..."

Hey now...(comforting pat on the back) Don't be like that. Your in the right place... we care on this site. But it still is good to vent.

Retaining a different lawyer would probably be a good idea :)  

It sounds like she has a lot of DEEP issues and is VERY manipulative. (Do not underestimate how dangerous that may be if you let yourself be controlled by it) I bet that made for a very difficult relationship between you and her and communication can be a real struggle.

It also sounds like you are on the right track... thinking about the kids, how things effect them, what's best for them, ect...

Keep that up! Don't loose sight of that. Remember you can't change the past but you can change the future. Don't let things get to a point that you are looking back and tell your self you would do things differently. Even if the future outcome is something you don't like then you will know that you did everything you could to help your kids.

Putting your kids first is the right thing to do, but you need to look out for yourself too. Do NOT listen to her when she says don't talk to you lawyer.

Some form of individual counseling would be good for her and if you wish to remain with her some form of couples counseling should happen. But, If you are not happy, it is ok to say "this marriage failed and now it is over." IF... that is the case, then: the sooner you come to grips with that the better. You do NOT want to look back 10 or 15 +years from now saying I should have cut the losses sooner. Your kids won't be small forever and although you (may say) "well, we don't fight in front of them...", they are going to start picking up on things faster and faster the older they get. With "separations and you filing for divorce, and reconciliations, and so forth...", it dosn't sound like a very stable environment to have them in. Especially the worse it gets.

The most important thing in any relationship is comunication! If you want it to work, then you both must work hard on building the right tools for how to live and work together; on life, marriage, and parenting.

I believe you are at a crossroads now. This is the time you must deciede "what do I want to happen in my life?" Basically shit or get off the pot." This situation isn't good for the kids, you, or her.

If you keep focused you will be Ok. You need to have faith in yourself.
Good Luck,
Mark & Heather

[wendl]

I agree with the other posters.

You need a new attorney one the will work for YOU.

Also if she is denying your child her education, I would check up with the childrens Dr's too, they may not be getting their shots etc either.

Also if she is getting low income housing for her and he kids and other are there, they wont like the fact that so many people are their cuz the housing was based on her and the kids not others and could get into trouble for this.

Check with the school to see if they follow the BECA laws also, and if these absences have been excused, talk to the school abuot your concerns as well.

You can also call the police to see if they will do a welfare child check, which means they will go to the home and make sure the children are ok.

Document Document Document.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

[MYSONSDAD]

If you run into a problem with the local Police, see if the County Sheriff will go out. Sometimes they will approach this before the Local Departments.