Certificate of Document Preparation

[Lyrael924]

Hello, Soc

Our case is the case of the 8-year-old boy, living in Oregon with mom, who has sole legal and physical custody. We are trying for visitation with him. Dad lives in Illinois and has no visitation rights currently. We have a child support order in place from Hawaii. We have served but not filed the paperwork to register our out-of-state custody/support determination, and I have been discussing what the wisest move is now. You asked for a chronology of events from us, and a statement regarding the change in the child's circumstances. You mentioned that you might help us write a motion for an OSC. The pro se family court paperwork from Oregon includes a Statement of Document Preparation that reads like this:

"You are required to truthfully complete this certificate regarding the documents you are filing with
the court. Check all boxes and complete all blanks that apply:

I selected these documents for myself, and I completed them without paid assistance.

I paid or will pay money to ________________________ for assistance in preparing these documents."

Here are the questions this time:
1) Will the court frown upon us submitting a motion we were "helped" with?

2) Do we need to let the court know who helped us?

3) Am I worrying needlessly about something very minor?

[socrateaser]

>Hello, Soc
>
>Our case is the case of the 8-year-old boy, living in Oregon
>with mom, who has sole legal and physical custody. We are
>trying for visitation with him. Dad lives in Illinois and has
>no visitation rights currently. We have a child support order
>in place from Hawaii. We have served but not filed the
>paperwork to register our out-of-state custody/support
>determination, and I have been discussing what the wisest move
>is now. You asked for a chronology of events from us, and a
>statement regarding the change in the child's circumstances.
>You mentioned that you might help us write a motion for an
>OSC. The pro se family court paperwork from Oregon includes a
>Statement of Document Preparation that reads like this:
>
>"You are required to truthfully complete this certificate
>regarding the documents you are filing with
>the court. Check all boxes and complete all blanks that
>apply:
>
I selected these documents for myself, and I completed them
>without paid assistance.
>
I paid or will pay money to ________________________ for
>assistance in preparing these documents."
>
>Here are the questions this time:
>1) Will the court frown upon us submitting a motion we were
>"helped" with?

The Oregon Supreme Court has added those words for two reasons:

1. To prevent paralegals from practicing law without a license by receiving payment in return for helping people with their case, which may include preparing forms while using professional legal judgment (applying law to facts and reaching a legal conclusion).

2. To "discourage" self representing litigants from trying to represent themselves, by making it seem like the only thing that a person can legally do is to "select" a "form" and "fill it in" themselves. Which is not actualy true at all.

>2) Do we need to let the court know who helped us?

You did select the form yourself, didn't you? You pushed enter the computer printed it out.

Have you paid anyone to help you prepare the forms? Well, I'm damn certain that you haven't paid me -- I can't vouch for anyone else.

But if I've correctly understood the above (and I have), then you can truthfully check the first box, and comfortably  ignore the second.
>
>3) Am I worrying needlessly about something very minor?

Well, it wouldn't be minor at all if you marched into court and said, "Some anonymous person named Socrateaser wrote these pleadings for me and I sent him a money order payable to cash to a P.O. box in return." If you did that, then the Oregon Attorney General's office would contact SPARC and start asking all sorts of nasty little questions and neither you nor anyone else would ever get help off of this website again.

However, I'm not real worried that you're gonna do this, especially as there would be about 500 angry ex-SPARC posters who would try to find you and burn you at the stake (kidding)! Besides, you haven't sent me any money, and I haven't asked for any.

And, I'm not gonna. But, if someday, after the dust settles and your case is over, and you suddenly wake up one morning feel grateful and you decide to send me a gift, well it would be way too late to go back and start changing all the certifications on those forms, now wouldn't it. After all, at the time that you filed them you had no future intention of paying anyone to help you with those forms.

R I G H T ?

Of course. Anyway, you're worrying too much. No one has helped you and you've selected the forms for yourself. That's what you should answer and the court won't investigate it further.

[Lyrael924]

>
>>2) Do we need to let the court know who helped us?
>
>You did select the form yourself, didn't you? You pushed enter
>the computer printed it out.
>
Actually, I haven't done anything yet - did you post a draft of a motion and I missed it? That is entirely possible.

>But if I've correctly understood the above (and I have), then
>you can truthfully check the first box, and comfortably
>ignore the second.

Thanks for the clarification.
>>



>
>However, I'm not real worried that you're gonna do this,
>especially as there would be about 500 angry ex-SPARC posters
>who would try to find you and burn you at the stake (kidding)!
>Besides, you haven't sent me any money, and I haven't asked
>for any.

And I really have no desire to anger anyone, anywhere. I am a peaceful sort.

>
>And, I'm not gonna. But, if someday, after the dust settles
>and your case is over, and you suddenly wake up one morning
>feel grateful and you decide to send me a gift, well it would
>be way too late to go back and start changing all the
>certifications on those forms, now wouldn't it. After all, at
>the time that you filed them you had no future intention of
>paying anyone to help you with those forms.
>
>R I G H T ?

I haven't filed anything yet, so I am okay there, I guess.
>
>Of course. Anyway, you're worrying too much. No one has helped
>you and you've selected the forms for yourself. That's what
>you should answer and the court won't investigate it further.

Okie-dokie - thanks much.

[Lyrael924]

Thanks for the clarifications. I just realized my reply wasn't exactly readable, and didn't follow the required format. So I will try again.

I know you received the e-mail with the further information you asked for. You mentioned you might draft a motion for an OSC over the weekend.

I know you are busy - you help a lot of people here, and surely you have lots going on outside of here. I just want to know what I need to do. "Be patient and shut up" is a perfectly okay answer. I get that sometimes, because I have the patience of a cracked-out squirrel.

1) Obviously understanding you are a busy guy, do I just need to be patient and wait until you have some time to do this?

2) Will you attach it to this post, or do I need to create a post in about a week to have you attach any thoughts you might have on what we sent you?

[socrateaser]

>1) Obviously understanding you are a busy guy, do I just need
>to be patient and wait until you have some time to do this?

I read the chronology -- it's very good, and your argument as to why the child needs to be with you shows how much you care, which hopefully will impress the court. I am busy, but I've also been stalling just a little to see if the mother jumps ship and goes to another state. I'll try to have something by the end of the week (Sunday). If you want to try to do it yourself, you're certainly welcome to do so. Just let me know and I'll hold off.

>2) Will you attach it to this post, or do I need to create a
>post in about a week to have you attach any thoughts you might
>have on what we sent you?

I'll email it. If there's any changes in circumstances, let me know immediately.

[Lyrael924]

Soc-
Thanks! I guess in retrospect, waiting just a bit is a good idea. I don't know if we will find out when she moves. Maybe a call to her midweek would be a good idea, because she definitely won't volunteer the information.

I am going to go ahead and wait as well. I think you're right here. We will let you know if anything changes.