how much is enough

[marnbuk]

My daughter is 5 years old. I was never married to the BM but we have had court orders since she was 9 months old. I have never missed a child support payment and always carried insurance. the BM has 3 kids with 3 dads. in December of 2003 things started to go bad. their house was raided and illegal items found, they have moved 11 times in 18 months, the BM spent my daughters birthday in jail for truancy warrants, the live in boyfriend has been arrested several times in the presence of my daughter, every babysitter she has had has been arrested while caring for my child, CPS took her kids but gave them back because her drug test was negative, when CPS contacted her the last time she took her 2 year old to his dad and said he had to stay with him because CPS is investigating them, she has never had all of her utilities on (no water or heat etc.), there are a lot of things.
 My daughter has missed or been late 8 days this school year (she has only been in school two months because BM didnt enroll them when school started). I have documentation of all of this. I met her third childs father by luck recently and we compared notes. he had information I was not aware of and we are meeting with an attorney together soon.
 he has no court orders for his son but has had him the past year most of the time.  we live in texas (BM, child, and myself) and it is not easy to get custody from what I am told. I have kept a journal since my daughter turned three (that is when our court orders became very specific and easier to follow. I want to get custody but I dont want to loose and wipe out all of the evidence I have (since everytime you go to court you start over from that day forward).
  the BM voluntarily handed over the youngest to his father everytime they didnt have heat or water or CPS came knocking but she absolutely will not let my daughter live with me. It makes me suspicous of why and how can a mother decide that one of her children shouldnt live that way but her other child should. I am also the only father that pays child support so I dont know if that is why.
  I am disgusted with the whole situation and I need some support from people that have been through this. I just dont know how much is enough to get custody. we have never been to court since our original orders when my child was 9 months old and that was mutual so we just showed up and signed the papers.

  my questions are
1. how much evidence do you need to persuade a judge?

2. will it help for two fathers to testify on each others behalf or just look vendictive?

3. will it be harder because all three children do have different dads and will be separated?

4. what type of evidence does it take to modify primary domicile rights?

5. the BM has been on welfare for ten years will she get a court appointed attorney for a civil matter or will she have to pay for an attorney also?

6. if she is honest with her attorney would an attorney tell her to temporarily sign the children over and get her life together?

[Ref]

nm

[socrateaser]

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[socrateaser]

>  my questions are
>1. how much evidence do you need to persuade a judge?

You must have clear and convincing evidence of a change in circumstances affecting the child's best interests. The fact tha tthe mother failed to enroll the child in school should be sufficient to meet your burden to obtain an initial new custody hearing, and all of your other evidence, plus that of the other fathers, should get you to a favorable ruling. It would be best if all three fathers filed simultaneously, on substantially the same grounds. This would create an overwhelming burden on the custodial parent to fight three cases at once, and could give you all a very big edge. You could also use the same custody evaluator and split many litigation costs, which may also help.

>
>2. will it help for two fathers to testify on each others
>behalf or just look vendictive?

If the other fathers do NOT testify, then that could cause the court to wonder why they aren't complaining, which would be evidence favoring the custodial parent.

>3. will it be harder because all three children do have
>different dads and will be separated?

This is probably the biggest hurdle for you to overcome, and you will need a child psychologist to evaluate the potential harm and benefit from splitting the children up vs. not.

>4. what type of evidence does it take to modify primary
>domicile rights?

Clear and convincing evidence of a change in circumstances affecting the child(ren)'s best interests. The most damaging evidence is objective proof of the custodial parent affirmatively acting against the child's interests, such as by not enrolling the child in school, offering the child drugs or smokes, etc., bringing the child into a dangerous environment, such as moving in with a convicted child abuser.

This are just examples, but the key is that you have independent unbiased testimony or evidence and that the evidence shows a clear connection between the parent's actions and the harm to the child.

>5. the BM has been on welfare for ten years will she get a
>court appointed attorney for a civil matter or will she have
>to pay for an attorney also?

The fact that she's on welfare will not get her an attorney appointment. However, it may cause the court to order you to pay some or all of her attorney fees. Hard to speculate -- this is a very judge specific issue.

>6. if she is honest with her attorney would an attorney tell
>her to temporarily sign the children over and get her life
>together?

The attorney must represent the client's interests, and the client is not the child -- it's the parent. The court must use the child's best interests to determine any situation where the parents' respective rights negate each other, which in family law is almost everywhere.

Anyway, I can't remember the last client who was honest with his/her attorney, so I doubt that you will need to worry about this possibility.

[marnbuk]

the other father is the oldest childs father and he is the current live in boyfriend. she divorced him before because of abuse and things got so bad they were living in a motel room. he is not going to go for custody because he is a deadbeat dad and they are together again.
 he has several convictions on his record from drug possession, larceny, driving with suspended license, etc. he is going to court 11/15/2005 for two counts of criminal nonsupport. he was sentenced to 4 years and his attorney got him a 60 day suspension. he was to pay 5,000.00 and get a legitimate job by next court date. he hasnt done it. he will probably be incarcerated when we go to court.
he has also attempted to deny my visitations and I have been told next weekend when I go to get my daughter he is planning on attacking me. his exact words to people were "that is my last chance to get him before I go to jail. I dont have anything to loose I am going down for four years anyway". we have retained a private investigator to be there for the visit so we will see what happens.
he is not going to go after her he is the root of alot of the problems. he has been arrested several times while caring for my daughter and was home when the drug raid occurred.

1. can we use him against her since she had prior knowledge of his criminal acts and choose to allow him to move in with her?

2. if he is in jail will that give her a way out by blamming it all on him and saying he isnt around the children anymore?

[socrateaser]

>1. can we use him against her since she had prior knowledge of
>his criminal acts and choose to allow him to move in with
>her?

Yes, if you can show that he is a danger to the child, then that is proof of the mother affirmatively placing your child in harm's way, which is against the child's intersts.

>
>2. if he is in jail will that give her a way out by blamming
>it all on him and saying he isnt around the children anymore?

Not if you can show that he was living with her previously, the only reason why he sould not still be living there is because he's in prison.

[hagatha]

Soc,

Would it make a difference to the answer you gave re:

>3. will it be harder because all three children do have different dads and will be separated?

>>This is probably the biggest hurdle for you to overcome, and you will need a child psychologist to evaluate the potential harm and benefit from splitting the children up vs. not.<<

Since 2 of the dads are going to be working together, can they acknowledge the sibling issue and address ways they will ensure their children remain in close contact.

I know there is a third child that would also need contact, but couldn't that also be accomplished with the mothers parenting time should they get primary custody. (or even offer to take the third child should CPS decide it's necessary.)

Tha Witch

Remember . . . KARMA is a Wonderful Thing!!!!!

[socrateaser]

>Since 2 of the dads are going to be working together, can they
>acknowledge the sibling issue and address ways they will
>ensure their children remain in close contact.
>
>I know there is a third child that would also need contact,
>but couldn't that also be accomplished with the mothers
>parenting time should they get primary custody. (or even offer
>to take the third child should CPS decide it's necessary.)

Close contact is not the same as living together. If the two unincarcerated parents lived very close together, that could be a good argument, i.e., agreement to ensure daily contact, sleepovers, etc. But, it's still a pretty tall hurdle.

[marnbuk]

some attorneys have told us that they will use the fact that there are 3 children with three fathers against her. for example the third child was the product of a very short affair with a married man. an argument we have heard is a good mother would not have been having an affair witha married man and conceived a child from it. especially when you have been on welfare for ten years and obviously arent capable of supporting the first two children.
 anyway it goes she is going to have a lot of explaining to do. it will be harder to argue against two of the fathers when they both have journals of events that have taken place and they didnt even know each other. we know she usually does not have necessary utilities on (heat, gas, water,etc.) but how do i prove it.
 I have decided CPS is not going to step in and help us. she usually moves before they can track her down or she tells them she is having the utilities turned on tomorrow and they close the case without checking into it. the other father did not start making reports until recently so it has looked like I am the bitter vendictive ex all this time.
 when I called for the house being nasty and unfit they left her a message and took two weeks to go to her house. her phone was also registered to a sex offender and I reported that I had seen him at their house (got his picture from the internet). she said she wasnt aware he was a sex offender and disconected the phone so CPS closed the case.
I went to pick up my child on one occassion and she was at a park without adult supervision. the BM admitted it to CPS but they closed the case and told her not to do it again. now they are living in a house that has been condemed and raw sewage is exposed. cant use bath/shower or toilet. she told CPS plumber was coming that day and they closed the case. they have been told by the landlord to move out but have refused to move. they have moved 11 times in less than two years but when itis important for childrens health they refuse to move.

1. what does it take to get CPS to get involved in this?

2. can all of my reports to CPS be used against me since they keep closing the case?

3. how do I prove she has had the children living without utilities on?

4. will it be a tall hurdle for her to fight two custody battles at once?

5. if you go to court to seek change in primary domicile rights and the judge does not grant it will he modify visitation?

6. if I dont get custody on temporary orders should I then just seek to modify visitation or continue the fight for custody?

[socrateaser]

>1. what does it take to get CPS to get involved in this?

File a complaint.

>
>2. can all of my reports to CPS be used against me since they
>keep closing the case?

You can subpoena the reports, but you'll need the investigators to testify, or the reports will be deemed inadmissible hearsay.

>
>3. how do I prove she has had the children living without
>utilities on?

Subpoena her utility records from the various utility companies, or from the landlords if applicable.

>
>4. will it be a tall hurdle for her to fight two custody
>battles at once?

Already asked and answered in a different response.

>
>5. if you go to court to seek change in primary domicile
>rights and the judge does not grant it will he modify
>visitation?

I doubt it -- that would mean that you completely blew your case.

>
>6. if I dont get custody on temporary orders should I then
>just seek to modify visitation or continue the fight for
>custody?

This is a decision for a client, not a lawyer. I wouldn't go in for a temporary order unless I had already had an expert witness child psychologist who was prepared to testify that the children were in mental distress as the result of the custodial parent's actions. Because, if the kids are ok with everything, then you're probably wasting your time and money pursuing this case, no matter how bleak you think you can make it appear.