child support for children ignored by court when father has custody

[jenjen]

soc,

 I wanted to get your opinion on this


bio/father and bio/mom have 3 children never married father payed court ordered support for children. children removed from bio/mom
by juvenile court mom/found to have neglected children, children placed w/bio father, bio/mom never completed case plan for reunification.


court ordered children to remain w/bio father, judge suspended father child support obligation,judge made mention that support was due by bio/mom and she can pay. no amount ordered by judge no amount sought by dept of revenue child enforcment.


years later bio/father accused of child abuse, children placed w/ relative of bio/mom, court reopens original case w/ these new allegations against bio/father, dept of revenue seeking support from bio/father for bio/mom relative. bio/mom did not attend any hearings and again did not complete case plan, bio/father completed case plan in record time and children returned immediately to bio/father.


court wants to close case soon.


1. question: since the court did not open a new case but, chose to reopen the original case against mom with new allegation against father
can the father have the issue of child support addressed because the court failed to seek support for the minor children when in fathers care and now seeks it from father for a relative who has only had children for a few months?



2. why is support ignored when the obligee is bio/mom
and so diligently sought when obligee is bio/father?


3. can an objection to closing the case be filed due to the courts failure to order support from bio/mom, ingnoring her obligation and duty to pay support?


4. could this be argued as a failure by the court having jurisdiction as not
protecting the best interests of the children?




5.If this was you how would you proceed

[socrateaser]

>soc,
>
> I wanted to get your opinion on this
>
>
>bio/father and bio/mom have 3 children never married father
>payed court ordered support for children. children removed
>from bio/mom
>by juvenile court mom/found to have neglected children,
>children placed w/bio father, bio/mom never completed case
>plan for reunification.
>
>
>court ordered children to remain w/bio father, judge suspended
>father child support obligation,judge made mention that
>support was due by bio/mom and she can pay. no amount ordered
>by judge no amount sought by dept of revenue child
>enforcment.
>
>
>years later bio/father accused of child abuse, children placed
>w/ relative of bio/mom, court reopens original case w/ these
>new allegations against bio/father, dept of revenue seeking
>support from bio/father for bio/mom relative. bio/mom did not
>attend any hearings and again did not complete case plan,
>bio/father completed case plan in record time and children
>returned immediately to bio/father.
>
>
>court wants to close case soon.
>
>
>1. question: since the court did not open a new case but,
>chose to reopen the original case against mom with new
>allegation against father
>can the father have the issue of child support addressed
>because the court failed to seek support for the minor
>children when in fathers care and now seeks it from father for
>a relative who has only had children for a few months?

No. Retroactive support is only available back to the date of the original motion or OSC to modify support. Since father never filed a motion for support, but his obligation was suspeneded, father is not entitled to  retroactive support.

Under the circumstances, even if there were a legal avenue available, the existence of abuse allegations would create a very large hurdle to obtain the court's attention on what appears to be a "hail mary" attempt to extract money from the mother, in order to pay the childrens' new guardian.

>2. why is support ignored when the obligee is bio/mom
>and so diligently sought when obligee is bio/father?

Your statement is not supported by credible evidence, and my board is not a place for venting against the system. The party seeking support has the right to ask the court to order it, and the right to ask the state to try to obtain it for the party. Your facts suggest that the father never attempted to obtain support, either through direct court action or via the State child support enforcement agency. Therefore, father received exactly what he requested -- nothing.

>3. can an objection to closing the case be filed due to the
>courts failure to order support from bio/mom, ingnoring her
>obligation and duty to pay support?

Once again, the court is not obligated to seek support on father's behalf. The state can be obligated if it is asked by the father to seek support, but the court merely acts on the requests of the father or the state, and if nothing is requested, then the court does nothing.

The court is a purely reactive mechanism -- it does nothing unless and until asked.

>4. could this be argued as a failure by the court having
>jurisdiction as not
>protecting the best interests of the children?

>5.If this was you how would you proceed

If the abuse allegation(s) are patently false, I would offer to submit to a polygraph exam on each and every allegation. You haven't stated whom has alleged the abuse, its character or what legal action is pending, so I can't comment further.

However, if there is a possibility of criminal charges, do NOT post the facts here, because you will be waiving your 5th Amendment right to refuse to testify against yourself.

If you want to discuss any criminal issue, send your facts to [email protected], and then post a message here stating that you have done so.

[jenjen]

there is no criminal case, it was dropped if father coorperated with cps,
after much negotiation father agreed to take one class- anger management.


Father refused to let 18 year old date his 14 yr old daughter, 18 year old and niece of bio/mom got together and called police to report child abuse when daughter called cousin after being diciplined for staying out late. dicipline was to be discussed the following morning.


bio/mom relative told daughter lies about what discipline would be daughter believed she would be restricted from having contact with cousin.


question:

1.  doesnt the bio/mom have the same obligation to support children?


2.  would the method of calculating support be different w/ the realative verses the bio/mom?


3. would it be based on the relatives income and the bio/father

4. what if the bio/father is just bearly making it and can not support the children and pay support at the same time


5.  would this cause the children to be removed and placed into foster care (bio/mom is missing)

6. should father give custody to one of his relatives so he can work a 2nd job to pay the support? so children will not suffer from this


7. bio/mom relative doesnt want to take children (mad with bio/mom and wanted to hurt bio/father) damage done.


8. children want to remain with bio/father and has explained to bio/father
that they had know idea they were being used


 

[socrateaser]

>question:
>
>1.  doesnt the bio/mom have the same obligation to support
>children?

Yes. But, federal law specifically prohibits retroactive support, to a date earlier than the last motion to modify filing. So if father never filed a motion for support, he can't enforce it later.

>2.  would the method of calculating support be different w/
>the realative verses the bio/mom?

No.
>
>
>3. would it be based on the relatives income and the
>bio/father

No, it's based on both parents' incomes. The relatives' income is irrelevant, unless the relative is granted custody rights vis-a-vis guardianship.

>
>4. what if the bio/father is just bearly making it and can not
>support the children and pay support at the same time

If father can show that there are circumstances which make it unjust or inappropriate to order guideline support, then the court can consider this and lower the support obligation. However, courts are extremely unlikely to make such deviations due to the strong presumption in favor of parents adequately supporting their children.

Where there are children in a new relationship who will suffer if guideline support is awarded, courts generally grant deviations from the guideline support amount. But, not always.

>5.  would this cause the children to be removed and placed
>into foster care (bio/mom is missing)

By itself, no. If the father parent is considered unfit, yes.

>
>6. should father give custody to one of his relatives so he
>can work a 2nd job to pay the support? so children will not
>suffer from this

Parents cannot grant custody -- only courts can do this. A parent can delegate his/her custodial duties to another parent, but a court can void this delegation, so whether the father does this or not is largely irrelevant.

>7. bio/mom relative doesnt want to take children (mad with
>bio/mom and wanted to hurt bio/father) damage done.

This isn't a question, so I have no answer.

>8. children want to remain with bio/father and has explained
>to bio/father that they had know idea they were being used

Take kids to therapist and have them evaluated, then have therapist testify to the childrens' credibility. Or, request that the court appoint a GAL to represent the child(ren)'s interests. Both expensive.

You could have the kids testify, but most courts frown on this, unless the kids are very mature -- so this could backfire big time -- although if you can't afford anything else, then it may be your only recourse.

[jenjen]

 Just remembered father did try to address the issue of child support and judge refused to here it when children originally placed with him (judges remarks were "I'm not going to get into that") wrote in his final order that "child support was do and bio/mom can pay"


questions:


1.     Would it be likely that the family court where the original final judgement of parternity custody and child support was ordered, will recongnize the juvenile courts changing custody as a change in circumstances. and grant father retroactive support from that date?



2.   Will the judges statement "I'm not going to get into that" and his final order "saying that support is due and the bio/mom can pay" help in getting the childrens retoactive support?

[socrateaser]

>questions:
>
>
>1.     Would it be likely that the family court where the
>original final judgement of parternity custody and child
>support was ordered, will recongnize the juvenile courts
>changing custody as a change in circumstances. and grant
>father retroactive support from that date?
>
>
>
>2.   Will the judges statement "I'm not going to get into
>that" and his final order "saying that support is due and the
>bio/mom can pay" help in getting the childrens retoactive
>support?
>
Here's the relevant federal statute (42 U.S.C. 666):

"a) Types of procedures required
In order to satisfy section 654 (20)(A) of this title, each State must have in effect laws requiring the use of the following procedures, consistent with this section and with regulations of the Secretary, to increase the effectiveness of the program which the State administers under this part:
(9) Procedures which require that any payment or installment of support under any child support order, whether ordered through the State judicial system or through the expedited processes required by paragraph (2), is (on and after the date it is due)—
(A) a judgment by operation of law, with the full force, effect, and attributes of a judgment of the State, including the ability to be enforced,
(B) entitled as a judgment to full faith and credit in such State and in any other State, and
(C) not subject to retroactive modification by such State or by any other State;
except that such procedures may permit modification with respect to any period during which there is pending a petition for modification, but only from the date that notice of such petition has been given, either directly or through the appropriate agent, to the obligee or (where the obligee is the petitioner) to the obligor."

OK, what it means is that there must be "pending a petition for modification", and that retroactive support is only permitted "from the date that notice of such petition has been given, etiher directly or through the appropriate agent, to the obligee or (where obligee is the petitioner) to the obligor."

So, the fact that there was a juvenile court proceeding or that there was arguably a change of circumstances is irrelevant, because there was no petition (or motion, or some pleading) pending before the court.

As for what may have been said at the hearing, if mother was present, and the court stated that mother is to pay support, but that the court wasn't considering the matter that day, that could have been sufficient notice of a pending motion by the father. But, it's REALLY thin, and you'd need a transcript of the hearing because every word of what took place will likely matter in determining whether this is sufficient to make retroactive support possible.

If I were a bettin' man, I say, no friggin way this is gonna come down in your favor. But, without reading the court transcript, I can't reasonably analyze or comment further.

[jenjen]

all most positive mom was present, however i am positive her attorney was there.


1. If the mom was absent that day, and her attorney being present would that be the same as if she was there?


2. I know transcripts can be expensive, how might one request/get the transcripts?

[socrateaser]

>
>
>all most positive mom was present, however i am positive her
>attorney was there.
>
>
>1. If the mom was absent that day, and her attorney being
>present would that be the same as if she was there?

yes.
>
>
>2. I know transcripts can be expensive, how might one
>request/get the transcripts?

call the court reporters office at the courthouse.