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Dear Socrateaser,

I am divorced and have joint legal custody of 2 teenage girls in Utah.  I have specified visitation of 8 days per month which I am allowed to schedule.  I have been compliant with all of the requirements of our agreement.  My 16 year old daughter has refused visitation for about 1 year.  My 13 year old daughter just recently started refusing.  For the sake of brevity, I won't go into details but the refusal is purely emotional and is simply a battle the girls are fighting on behalf of their mother.  Their mother refuses to force them to go for visitation if they don't want to go because they are "young adults" and she says this is between the girls and me.  

The mother and I have been to mediation, and she agreed to start a series of punishments (per the mediator's suggestion ie:  taking away cell phones) to get the girls to come to my house.  This lasted for 3 days and the girls chose the punishment rather than coming for visitation.  I have been told by the girls' counselors to not pursue a court decision to force visitation because this will alienate the girls further as they see this as me further "hurting their mom".  I feel that court is my only option.  The 16 year old recently told me that she is trying to legally eliminate me from her life for "leaving her".  I am not sure what this means but am guessing that I will be sued for full custody by the mom or maybe emancipation.  There has never been any verbal or physical abuse of any sort.  

Here are my questions:
1.  Can a 16 year old convince a judge that it is in her best interest to eliminate her father from her life?
2.  A Guardian Ad Litem was recommended by the girls' counselor.  Would this be useful?
3.  Is it likely that a judge will enforce visitation when the girls adamantly refuse?
4.  If visitation is enforced by a judge, are there any consequences when the Mom fails to comply?

Thanks very much for your help!
Lawless

That is good news about the local psychologist!  Especially one that you like.  No, he cannot write prescriptions unless his is a psychiatrist which is an MD.  PhD just means that he has done research and earned a doctorate for that (which is a good thing too!).  Usually, the psychologist has a relationship with a psychiatrist who your ss will only see very briefly and occasionally for med adjustment.  This has been my experience as a pharmacist who has worked in this area.  Congrats on a positive step forward!
Lawless

I don't know the situation about why there is a GAL, etc. but I do know that it is important to remember that GALs talk to the child's counselors, past and present.  If you burn a bridge with the previous counselor, it can hurt you in court.  We have had some bad experiences with counselors.  It helps to remember that it is not their job to parent or give advice to a child, just to help him feel "heard".  The counselors tell us that the "facts" don't matter, just the child's perception and feelings.  We have hoped that the couselors would help guide our teenage girls to do the right thing but they do not give them advice, just listen.  My opinion is that this is very valuable to the child when they have parents who are guiding them at the same time.  If they do not as in our situation (girls refuse to visit or communicate with Dad and me (stepmom) and Mom is a non-parent) I feel that it is extremely disappointing and perhaps dangerous.  My advice is to change counselors because of the driving time but don't expect the counselor to give much advice or guidance.  No expectations, no disappointment.... Lawless

Curious...why are these posts deleted?
Lawless

I did not think that you were agreeing with the perception that a Mom who only has the kids 50% of the time is a bad parent, I was just commenting about how I get that perception tossed at me quite often.  Since all agree that kids need both parents, this perception is really unfair and doesn't make any sense, either.  I am amazed that a mediator would say this.  We have had TERRIBLE luck with a mediator.  It seems that they don't necessarily get a lot of training.

My ex and I actually have Joint legal and Joint physical custody.  We do not have a CP or NCP - we managed to be both CP and all decisions, legal or otherwise are joint.  We are in WA and were very happy to be able to make this happen.  

I believe that whatever the actual schedule, the most important thing is consistency and that the children "buy in" and know where they are supposed to be when.  With calendars and lots of communication, they will flourish having both parents in their lives working together.

Lawless

I agree that this is a civil matter and to be resolved in court.   We all have stories of frustration with our inability to enforce our visitation agreements when the other parent or the children refuse to uphold the agreement.  Adding to that is the fact that these are our children, the most important thing in our lives, and it gets very emotional.  You have received a lot of good advice even though it may not be what you want to hear.  Please remember that those responding are trying to help and we are all just doing the best we can with the information and experience that we all have.

I suggest you get a 2nd opinion - Go Ask Socrateaser - Be sure to follow his posting instructions.

Lawless

I have done the 2255 method.  We did every Mon, Tues with Mom (me) and every Wed, Thurs with Dad then we each had every other Fri,Sat,Sun which meant that I would have them M,T, F,S,S one week and then just MT the next week and so on.  The reason why we did this initially was because it was important to our children to know where they were going to be on a particular day.  They were 10 and 14 at the time and they were against spending 7 nights away from the other parent.  After about 1 year, we switched to 7 nights at each house.  Our "switch" occurs after school on Mondays.  My now 12 year old HATED the transitions as he never seemed to remember everything he needed.  We made a special effort to have clothes at both places but could never seem to make sure that all of the different sport shoes, mitts, etc. made the transition.  So the downside is more transitions between houses.

I will say that it has been difficult for me to ignore the questions and remarks that imply that I am a bad mother for only having my children 50% of the time.  I actually feel like a great mother for making sure that my kids get equal time with their 2 very loving parents.  It is hard to swallow my motherly ego though as this is not a generally accepted philosophy.  My ex husband and I have discussed many times how he is seen as a great dad and people actually feel a little sorry for him because he has the kids 50% of the time.  We both stand behind our decision and our children are proving us right.  I do believe that most of the reason why our kids are doing so well is because we get along very well and continue to parent our children together.  It is certainly not perfect but I am thankful for my ex-husband's great attitude as we are dealing with the COMPLETE opposite situation from my husband's ex-wife and his daughters.

I agree.  You should probably post to the "Dear Socrateaser" forum.  Be sure to follow his instructions.  Very tough situation.  My heart goes out to you.
Lawless

I have a really stupid question so please forgive me in advance...What actually happens when you get a contempt order against and ex wife who denies visitation.  Does it actually do anything?  I mean no one is going to put her in jail because then the kids would have no mother, right?  I have never understood if that would do any good or if it just makes us feel good when it happens.  Does it do anything in your case?

Thanks for the info...We have been reluctant to keep going back to court because we don't feel that it would actually do anything.

Lawless

I think this is a hard one since son will be with neither parent on that weekend.  Of course, it is reasonable that the parent who has him more would allow Dad to have an extra weekend since this is in the child's best interest to not go that many weeks without seeing his father.  I could see how she would argue that he isn't with her either when he is away on a church retreat.  The main point is that since this is during his time, he should make this decision.   Is there any way for Dad to go to and participate in the church retreat with his son?  Wouldn't that be a great solution?!

I will cross my fingers fo response #1 for you!

Lawless