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Author Topic: WHY doesn't the CP have to show proof that the child support is being spend on the child?!?!  (Read 7729 times)

caringstepmom

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This should absolutely be in effect!

It's not right when the CP claims poor, asks for additional support, and the buys new clothes/shoes/etc. every other week.

Are there any petitions to make something like showing proof happen?


caringstepmom

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>This should absolutely be in effect!
>
>It's not right when the CP claims poor, asks for additional
>support, and the buys new clothes/shoes/etc. every other
>week.
>
>Are there any petitions to make something like showing proof
>happen?


The title should read: show proof that the child support is going to the CHILD, and when I say buys new clothes/shoes/etc...Im not talking about for the child!!!

Just to clarify b/c my post looked very messy!

cinb85

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I am a CP
« Reply #2 on: Nov 08, 2005, 11:57:55 AM »
and I would have NO problem showing proof of what I spend the CS on.
Unfortunately I don't receive any child support.  I do without the things that I need just to make sure that our daughter gets what she needs regardless of whether I receive any CS or not.

Think about it.  Those CPs that really spend the money on frivilous things would just lie and come up with false documents to prove that the money was spent on the child.  

In a perfect world what your recommend would work, but there are always those people out there who know how to work the system with their lies.

It's the same with "some" people on welfare.  I know people on welfare that live a much better life than I do.  They get their hair done, nails done and buy much nicer clothes than I have.  But, that's because they have no problem lying and manipulating the system to get what they want.

Happyno

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I know what you mean!
« Reply #3 on: Nov 08, 2005, 04:40:11 PM »
My husband pays cs to a woman that does drugs and is an alcoholic.  She doesn't have those nice clothes or a nice house.  My SD has always lived the poor life while her mother gets her durgs and so forth.  Yes, I would like to know what is spent to my SD also.  This woman has everyone so scared of her that we can't even find anyone to help us out and go against her in court.  

wendl

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RE: I am a CP
« Reply #4 on: Nov 08, 2005, 07:07:06 PM »
Isn't that the truth. I am also a CP who does not get cs.

BUT if I did, I could show my ex receipts for everything I spent cs on, not to hard to do.

In some states you can request a breakdown on how cs is spent BUT, it ain't worth the paper it is written on cuz all the CP has to do is:

xx for rent
xx for food
xx for clothes
and does NOT have to show receipts, pretty easy to write anything down on paper.

Personally I think ALL custodial parents should have to use the new debit credit card thing and then give the CP a copy of the monthly statement that shows WHAT stores the money was spent at, it is a monthly statement just like a credit card, BUT the state forcing the CP's to use this card and give copies of the statement to the NCP will never happen.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**


MafiaMom

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RE: I am a CP
« Reply #5 on: Nov 09, 2005, 08:25:19 AM »
It will only bring on more problems if that were to be used. First, what if not ALL stores took that card? So then you're forced to shop at a limited number of stores. Second, what if the cp spent $40 on a pair of shoes, and the ncp thought that was excessive? Then they'd be bickering about misuse of the money, or frivolous spending. How would the cp pay the child's portion of the rent/house payment and utilities? How would the cp determine the child's portion of the food and toiletries? What about childcare? If the cp had to attend a wedding, for instance, and hired the neighborhood teenager to babysit. I'm sure the teen wouldn't take that debit card. How would that be paid? I shopped at garage sales for a lot of years. They don't accept debit cards at garage sales.

I have no problem showing where cs goes either. I can spend it on my ds without including food, too. But you have to remember that when two people are no longer married or in a relationship, it's because they didn't get along then. And now that they HAVE to associate with each other because of the child, if those animosities aren't put aside (which they rarely are) then there are going to still be reasons to disagree or nit pick the other person. So even though this system is a good IDEA, it's not feasible cuz it will just cause OTHER problems.
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cinb85

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I think that the first five years of my daughter's life
« Reply #6 on: Nov 09, 2005, 08:43:55 AM »
her entire wardrobe (exluding clothes that were given as birthday/christmas gifts) consisted of all garage sale clothes!!!!! LOL!!!
I don't know how I would have survived without garage sales and hand-me-downs from friends!

Happyno

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RE: I am a CP
« Reply #7 on: Nov 09, 2005, 01:31:19 PM »
From someone whose spouse pays CS, it doesn't matter to me what the money is spent on but it would be nice to know that the money is spent for the child.  I don't think it should be for rent, the CP has to have a place to live anyway.  I don't think it should be for electricity or water either.  I don't expect my kids to pay for elec., water or give me money for rent.  I think food and clothes and extra things that the child is involved in.  Lessons of some sort.  If the child wants to go to a movie or a gift for a birthday party then it would come out of the CS.  jmho

cinb85

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I don't agree
« Reply #8 on: Nov 09, 2005, 01:39:39 PM »
A one bedroom apartment is alot cheaper than a two-bedroom apartment where I live.  I have a teenage daughter that takes way too many showers and is constantly in her room with the TV on, the computer on and the radio on.  If I lived alone, my electric bill would be ALOT cheaper!

I also spend alot more money on gas due to having a teenager in the house.  I am constantly driving her to all of her sleepovers, dances and other after-school activities.  

All of these things add up.  My ex thinks that $10 a week for CS should be enought for a 14 year old girl (but he doesn't even pay that).  $10 a week doesn't even cover her school lunches!!!

Just my opinion.

MafiaMom

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I agree, Cin
« Reply #9 on: Nov 09, 2005, 02:11:42 PM »
I'm forever on my ds to turn off the lights when he leaves a room. As for the water...HE has more laundry than *I* do. That also causes more in heating bills, cuz our hot water tank runs off of the propane that heats the house. At least one day a weekend, I'm driving him to school for some function, then picking him up and driving him to a party, then going home, waiting until midnight, and heading back out to get him from the part and bringing him back home. That doesn't count the trips DURING the week, to band practice, friends houses, etc.

Don't get me started on shoes and clothes. Ugh...

I used to have an old beat up car. The first time I broke down on the freeway when ds was still in a car seat and had to walk in the snow for a mile to a phone in a bad neighborhood, my stepfather called and asked what color car I wanted. He couldn't see me and my baby not having safe transportation after that, so he offered to lease a car for me...I paid $100 a month, he paid the rest. And quite frankly, I STILL want to know I have reliable transportation when I'm driving my ds somewhere. Besides, why aren't we allowed to have a new car if we work? What makes people think that we are using the cs on the car payment rather than our wages?

That's one thing that irks me at times. People think if the cp gets her nails done or drives a new car that it's coming out of the cs. Well, if we work, what makes them think it's coming out of the cs and not OUR WAGES?

Love me without fear-Need me without demanding-Trust me without question-Want me without restrictions-Accept me without change. Find my soul and I'm yours 4ever

Happyno

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That's not our situation tho
« Reply #10 on: Nov 09, 2005, 02:31:30 PM »
DH ex lived with her mother paying nothing (which she could have) for years.  He was paying a lot of money for the ex and she didn't buy anything for the kids.  They came for the summer with clothes that were too big, clothes that were too small and we had to always buy new ones which we did send home with them after the summer.  I understand where those that say the cs isn't spent on them but there are cp's that don't spend money on the kids.  The kids never got to go out to eat, never any after school activities the one didn't even have his own bed, he always (for years) slept on the couch so dear ole mom could drink and do drugs.  I really do understand both sides, our side of the story is wrong.  I think there are many wondeful cp's that really take care of their kids, I've seen it.  There are many that don't.  It's just a free ride.  

cinb85

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Exactly
« Reply #11 on: Nov 09, 2005, 02:36:10 PM »
That's why showing proof of what the child support is spent on will never work.  Those of us who spend the CS on the children will have no problem showing proof.

Those like your DH's ex will just lie and show false information to prove that they spend the CS on the kids even though they don't!!!

My ex does drugs so I know exactly what you are dealing with.  My ex pays NOTHING for his children, but goes out all the time partying!!!!
He's a loser!
 
Good luck to you and your DH (and especially your DH's children)!!!

wendl

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RE: I am a CP
« Reply #12 on: Nov 09, 2005, 07:25:47 PM »
It works as a debit card too, you can take cash out.

I know it would put a lot of ncps at ease to use this tool.

OR if the CP actually had to SHOW receipts, utilites bills etc.

Again I am a CP and I think we should show our ex's what we are spending the cs on, when we were together we knew what our money was being spent on, why not now that we are not.

And yes, I buy at thrift stores, garage sales too, you have to when you don't get cs and when you have a dh that pays cs.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

wendl

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RE: I am a CP
« Reply #13 on: Nov 09, 2005, 07:27:12 PM »
I think rent shoudl be considered but ONLY the difference from a 1-2 bedroom, asl for utilites nah it shouldn't, food to a point, but NOT FOR JUNK and fast food.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

wendl

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RE: I agree, Cin
« Reply #14 on: Nov 09, 2005, 07:28:40 PM »
Ya but I know A LOT of cps who do not work and their sole income or only income is CS, now if the mom works and can afford a new go do it, I did and I deserved it.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

wendl

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Isn't that the truth eom
« Reply #15 on: Nov 09, 2005, 07:29:35 PM »

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

MafiaMom

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RE: I am a CP
« Reply #16 on: Nov 10, 2005, 07:37:34 AM »
Not utilities...and food to "a point?" Can you elaborate please? Cuz quite frankly, if you think even just about the hot water usage, the computer usage, and the video game/tv usage, I'm sure you can contribute a LOT MORE than you realize to the kids.

My home is heated by propane. That means my hot water is run by propane and electricity. In the winter, it costs me $600 a MONTH to heat the house - including the showers, stove to cook meals, and heating. So if you believe the difference between a 1 and two bedroom home is okay to consider, why can't you consider the cost to HEAT the larger home? If a larger HOME is necessary, it takes more HEAT to heat it. And there is a huge difference in electricity and energy to run a hot water tank for one vs. two individuals also.

As for food...why "to a point?" I cook at home most nights. I can't remember the last time we went out to eat. However, I'm content with a salad for dinner. DS eats breakfast every morning (I don't), needs lunch money for school, then he comes home and has a snack (which means either two or three microwave burrito's or an entire frozen pizza), then before I'm even out of my car after work, he's asking what's for dinner...and he'll snack AFTER dinner also. So more food is contributed to HIM than it is for ME. There is also double the toothpaste and soap, double the laundry detergent, double the toilet paper, etc. As for "junk food" - EVERYONE is entitled to some chips or snacks now and again, so saying the cp should ONLY spend money on meat and healthy foods is really not fair. I'm sure the ncp indulges now and again on snacks...so why can't the child? Most children have been raised with dessert after dinner...and most times, that dessert IS something "junk" so why can't it be included (not saying a ton of junk, but I don't think a grocery bill should be picked apart an all the chips, dorito's, swiss cakes, etc. pulled out before determining a grocery bill). So groceries "to a point" doesn't make sense to me.

can you please elaborate?
Love me without fear-Need me without demanding-Trust me without question-Want me without restrictions-Accept me without change. Find my soul and I'm yours 4ever

ChildsBestInterest

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I am a CP, and I believe ALL CP's should show proof of what and where with copies of receipts where the CS was spent.  

All parents that receive CS should do the following w/out a court order and if not done on a monthly basis, it should be court ordered.  
1.  Monthly letters sent to NCP with copies of school information, grades, picture order forms, etc.
2.  Copies of ALL medical, insurance bills/statements, paperwork given to CP
3.  Copies of receipts for any thing bought for the child
4.  Copies of daycare agreement
5.  Let the child(ren) call the other parent!
6.  Let the child(ren) visit the other parent!
#5 & #6 - CP's think of it as a vacation to yourself given by the NCP.

What is so wrong with sharing information?  
 

Stirling

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RE: I don't agree
« Reply #18 on: Nov 10, 2005, 12:35:06 PM »
I agree that CS should be used to pay for a child's portion of utilities.

"A one bedroom apartment is alot cheaper than a two-bedroom apartment where I live."

This is true but I am not certain it should be a factor in what CS should be used for since the NCP also has to incur the added expense to rent a two bedroom apartment for his parenting time with their children.  I would think that the added rent expense should be a wash for both parents and not something that CS should be used for.  I think that it would be unfair to expect the NCP to pay 100% of his increased rent and subsidize the CP in paying their increased rent.  

I also don't think that CS should be used by a CP to help buy real property either.  Same goes for a car since the NCP has to provide a safe and reliable car as well.

MafiaMom

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NOTHING is wrong with sharing information
« Reply #19 on: Nov 10, 2005, 01:14:11 PM »
When you show receipts for anything bought for the child, do you include rent, utilities, every tube of toothpaste or extra roll of toilet paper? Do you get receipts for things you buy at a garage sale or from the babysitter when you hire one in the evenings if you have something to do? Do you include mileage for running the child here and ther (the gas you used)? Do you EXPLAIN why you bought a $40 pair of tennis shoes when Payless had them buy one/get one half off? Do you include every cent given for the ice cream man, movies, school lunches, videos rented thru the week for the child?

THAT is what we're all talking about...WHAT should be included in that amount.

I don't share info with my ex. He's never seen his son nor expressed any desire to. I'm not sending him diddly :)
Love me without fear-Need me without demanding-Trust me without question-Want me without restrictions-Accept me without change. Find my soul and I'm yours 4ever

MafiaMom

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People like your dh's ex
« Reply #20 on: Nov 10, 2005, 01:15:26 PM »
don't DESERVE to be called PARENTS. Period. Quite frankly, if someone is not working and helping to raise the child...they aren't parents.
Love me without fear-Need me without demanding-Trust me without question-Want me without restrictions-Accept me without change. Find my soul and I'm yours 4ever

MafiaMom

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And like I said above
« Reply #21 on: Nov 10, 2005, 01:17:00 PM »
the parents like those cp's don't deserve the title of PARENT. IMO, a parent will help to raise a child emotionally, physically and FINANCIALLY. If you aren't there in ONE of those ways, you dont' deserve the title of 'parent.'

Being a parent is not just donating an egg or sperm. There is a LOT more that goes into EARNING that HONOR.
Love me without fear-Need me without demanding-Trust me without question-Want me without restrictions-Accept me without change. Find my soul and I'm yours 4ever

MafiaMom

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I never included cs in my income for cars or property
« Reply #22 on: Nov 10, 2005, 01:22:47 PM »
I learned you can't always depend on it and it's just financially stupid to include money to get a higher mortgage that you may not be able to afford.

Stirling, I can see your point on the ncp having to have a two bedroom also. But as for it being a "wash" I don't necessarily think that would work. In this society, men generally make more money than women, and are more able to afford certain things. that is where ther eis the "income shares" model of support. So...if we go on that theory, we can "income share" the cost of the difference. For example: if a cp makes $2000 a month and the ncp makes $4000 a month, then according to the income shares model, the CP makes 33% of the monthly combined income...so the cp would be responsible for 33% of the child's care. Since the ncp makes DOUBLE the amount, he/she is to pay 66% of the expenses.

So if a one bedroom were $500 a month, and a 2 bedroom were $800 a month, wouldn't it be fair to say that the cp is responsible for 33% of the additional $300, and the ncp for the additional 66%?
Love me without fear-Need me without demanding-Trust me without question-Want me without restrictions-Accept me without change. Find my soul and I'm yours 4ever

Stirling

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RE: I never included cs in my income for cars or property
« Reply #23 on: Nov 10, 2005, 02:19:35 PM »
I agree that the income shares model of determining CS is probably about the best system currently out there since it is based on the premise that both parents have a financial responsibility to support their children.  

I guess where I disagree is that CS should not be used to pay for things that the NCP has to provide for the children as well.  However I do see your point and on some level I could possibly agree with your position.  

To use your numbers it would cost each parent an addition $300 a month to provide a two bedroom apartment for their children.  I don't think that it would be fair for the NCP to pay his $300 and then be expected to pay $200 of the CP's increased rent based on the income ratio.  Perhaps both rents should be added together and then the income ratio applied.  So out of the combined $600 increased rent the NCP would pay $400 and the CP $200 based on the 1/3 to 2/3 ratio.

To be honest I think all of this is a moot point for me since I have come to realize that the CS guidelines are merely a suggestion of what should be spent in raising a child.  The CP will use their own parenting beliefs to decide what is actually spent in raising a child.  Also,  it maybe called CS but that label really doesn't accurately describe what it actually is.  Given the lack of accountability in the CS laws, all CS really is, is merely a redistribution of wealth from one parent to the other.  This is true since the CS becomes the CP's sole property that is unrestricted in how it is used.  The children don't even have a legal claim to the CS.  

ChildsBestInterest

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RE: NOTHING is wrong with sharing information
« Reply #24 on: Nov 10, 2005, 02:21:06 PM »
I keep a detailed monthly list of everything.  Rent/utilities are divided by the # in household.  (Special case here, NCP has choosen too not be involved)  the child is a special medical needs child which just recently had open heart.....  So with all his meds, physical/mental needs - Yep! I include even the DVD rental divided by the # of individuals because the child watches it also.  Garage sales because you afford what you can when NCP doesn't always pay.
I even send mileage to and from medical trips divided out by %, and he is court ordered to reimburse his share, over and above CS.  Everytime he takes me to court to lower CS, the Judge laughs....

"... Do you include every cent given for the ice cream man, movies, school lunches, videos rented thru the week for the child?..."

  I do include some, but not all.  Because in our case I, CP, pay 68% and NCP only 33%.  So his share is minimal.  Child care, medical insurance is included in CS.  but any amount over $250 is split by percentages, and he was court ordered to repay that proportion on top of CS.  My living standards or my child's standards will not drop because the NCP chooses to not to work or send CS.  Yes, it does make me upset when he doesn't  help out or is there for our child but it brings laughter when I know for the next 19 yrs, he has to deal with it....



Stirling

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In an income shares state you would actually have to have an accounting for every penny spent on the child since the income shares model is premised on both parents supporting the children.

For example:  Lets assume the CS ratio is 1/3 for the CP and 2/3 for the NCP.  The guidelines indicate that it should cost $1800 a month to raise the child.  Therefore, the NCP pays 2/3 of this amount which is $1200.  The income shares model also indicates that the CP should pony up $600 of their own money to support thier child.

Accordingly, the CP should provide documentation that $1800 a month is spent on supporting their children.  If less is spent it means that the NCP is supporting their child more than 2/3rds which results in the NCP subsidizing the CP.

Happyno

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There are so many ways to look at all of this and not many feel as if they come out smelling like a rose.  DH's ex has had many jobs, many husbands, many live ins, many step kids...We didn't have to pay her less money if she moved in with someone that already had an extra bedroom, older step children and built in baby sitters.  No, we just keep on paying for her drugs and alcohol and the kids never had extra.  Well they probably had snacks a plenty but not much food on the table.  So no wonder we all feel as if we're getting the wrong end of the stick...we are!

Spoiled

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  Don't you think that is a little extreme?  I am totally new here, but if my X wanted a reciept for every icecream cone or soda I bought for the children, then I would not have time for any thing else!!!  That is, if I actually received CS.  Now if we are talking $1000's per month,(which I am sure we're not) then that would be a different story.  
     Anyone who has ever had a child knows that they are very expensive.  And for anyone to actually say I WANT RECIEPTS is nuts!!

Spoiled

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RE: NOTHING is wrong with sharing information
« Reply #28 on: Nov 11, 2005, 06:50:50 PM »
     I totally agree with you MafiaMom!!!  I personally think it is rediculous (sp) to try to justify every penny!!!!

 

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