S.P.A.R.C.

Separated Parenting Access & Resource Center
crazy gamesriddles and jokesfunny picturesdeath psychic!mad triviafunny & odd!pregnancy testshape testwin custodyrecipes

Author Topic: Single mother,advice on father visitation  (Read 8111 times)

kahumano

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Single mother,advice on father visitation
« on: Jun 15, 2007, 08:32:04 AM »
Hey all! I was hoping for a little advice. I'm a single mother of a 2 year old girl. Our relationship ended before she was born. For the past 2 years I have constantly asked her father if he wants to meet her. Finally, a few weeks ago he started showing interest. It started with a birthday card :-) He says he would like to be there for her. It would be great if he's serious about this. I do know him well enough to know it may present some problems down the road because we are BOTH very stubborn people. So I would like some advice on visitation beforehand. When he does start asking for visitation what would be considered reasonable for a 2 year old child? He has currently been seeing her at my house (twice) because I felt it was best for her to get to know him a little. I would feel horrible just dropping her off with someone she doesn't know. Any advice would really be appreciated.


Ref

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • Karma: 17
    • View Profile
Congratulations for your daughter!
« Reply #1 on: Jun 15, 2007, 09:16:53 AM »
In my opinion, the best visitation right now might be a few hours a week. Maybe 4-6 hours for the next couple of Saturdays or Sundays. Alternating them might be a good idea. After a couple of months you could up that to an overnight every other weekend.

I recommend that you look up what the standard visitation order is in your area. Modify it so that it take into account them getting adjusted to eachother. Ultimately, you will want for him and his daughter to have at least what the standard says.

Sit down with him and maybe a neutral thrid party (mediator maybe?) and put everything in writing. Pick-up places& times, Drop-off places& times, what happens if he is late, what happens if the child is sick etc. This will make it so both of your "stubborn" tendencies will be put aside for continuity for your duaghter.

Good Luck
Ref

mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Congratulations for your daughter!
« Reply #2 on: Jun 15, 2007, 09:24:09 AM »
All good advice, but I would go one step further. Once you've agreed to things, submit it to the court for approval. Agreements that aren't approved by the court are worthless - and cause endless headaches later.

The other issue that hasn't been addressed is support. That needs to be addressed and approved by the court. Even if the BM doesn't want support, most courts won't allow zero support. The court will presumably order support and the BM is free to send it back if she wishes.

kahumano

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #3 on: Jun 15, 2007, 09:45:51 AM »
Thanks for the advice, I'm new at this. hahaha Thankfully, I did the child support thing as soon as she was born. Whewwww and it took 7 months to get that finalized. Even so, I pretty much support her cause the support check barely covers daycare. But I try not to even involve money in this, no matter how I feel.
Looks like I need to do ALOT of reading on Florida visitation law.
I don't have a problem with visitation per se........I just have some reservations.
1) He's never taken care of children.
2) He and his girlfriend smoke in the house
3) She currently has health problems (respiratory) and will soon have surgery.
4) Do I have a right insisting on meeting his girlfriend? Not trying to be nasty but I would like to know who is staying with my baby girl.

Ref

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • Karma: 17
    • View Profile
Florida!! My area of expertise!
« Reply #4 on: Jun 15, 2007, 10:15:47 AM »
It seems noble for you to say that you are not looking for money. Although I understand you are trying to keep things civil, you may want to look at support in a different way. The money is your little girl's. Even if you don't need at, you can put it in a savings account for her college. It really isn't your money to give up. If you are very well off and have no problem taking care of her financially, you can always pay him back.

Florida support guidelines are fairly clear and include the cost of daycare and medical insurance in it. Google "Florida Child support calculator" and find a caluclator you like. You can easily get an estimate of what the court would order.

As far as visitation orders go, check out the link below. It is a standard visitation agreement for Escambia County. It is very similar to others in the NW Florida region.

You said you are both stubborn. This means you had better, for you to get along, word your concerns in a proper way. For now, send him information on her condition. Include him in dr's appointments. Educating him on her condition might be the perfect way for him to grasp the need to not smoke around her.  Him not taking care of children before might not be that big of a deal. All parents go into raising a child blindly. Don't let yourself get too worried about it. You could also invite him to go to a parenting workshop (even though you know how to do that stuff, asking him to join you might not bruise his ego too much).

As far as your "right" to meet his girlfriend. No. Just like he can't ask the same of you. He is not allowed to judge who you hang around with either. I understand your concern and I think it would be best if you got to know her. To handle this, invite them to join your for dinner. Invite them to have a BBQ. Honestly, you may not like her at all but that wont change anything about whether she can be around the kid. It will give you an idea of how much to worry.

I also think you should join a single parenting group. You will need some support because, if things go the way they should, you will be going days or weeks without seeing your DD. It will be hard for you but you have to be strong infront of DD so that she doesn't worry for you.  You will disagree with his parenting from time to time and you have to learn how to deal with the fact that he may parent differently but that's ok.

Anyway, you have a lot of work to do and I wish you and your baby the very best. Keep asking questions and researching how to be a good co-parent.

Ref



http://www.stephentholman.com/CM/OnlineForms/SRParentingSchedule.pdf


kahumano

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Florida!! My area of expertise!
« Reply #5 on: Jun 15, 2007, 10:34:18 AM »
Thanks so much for the link. I'll go read it. About the child support. I've been receiving that since she was 7 months old. Of course I still struggle because that barely covers daycare. I have asked in the past if he would help with that but he has refused. So I just dropped it.
I have started letting him know about her health and things like that. The girlfriend issue isn't a big deal. For some reason he won't let her meet "our" daughter even though they have been together almost 3 years.
I have invited them to dinner and also to go to the beach with us. But her father has backed out of those. I'm definitely not going to be the one to rush their relationship. Yes, I want whats best for her but get real, I'm still a WOMAN. And unfortunately, yeah, we're bi*ches.
But I can honestly say I haven't done anything to prevent or damage the relationship for my daughter.
My friends always thought I was mental for continuing to ask him to see her for the past 2 years.
Anyways, I'm babbling now. hahaha So thank you for all the advice!! Now, I'm going to go check the link you sent!

Jade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Congratulations for your daughter!
« Reply #6 on: Jun 19, 2007, 07:50:58 PM »
>All good advice, but I would go one step further. Once you've
>agreed to things, submit it to the court for approval.
>Agreements that aren't approved by the court are worthless -
>and cause endless headaches later.
>
>The other issue that hasn't been addressed is support. That
>needs to be addressed and approved by the court. Even if the
>BM doesn't want support, most courts won't allow zero support.
>The court will presumably order support and the BM is free to
>send it back if she wishes.

Or put it in a savings account for college when the child finishes high school.  

Jade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #7 on: Jun 19, 2007, 07:52:12 PM »
>Thanks for the advice, I'm new at this. hahaha Thankfully, I
>did the child support thing as soon as she was born. Whewwww
>and it took 7 months to get that finalized. Even so, I pretty
>much support her cause the support check barely covers
>daycare. But I try not to even involve money in this, no
>matter how I feel.
>Looks like I need to do ALOT of reading on Florida visitation
>law.
>I don't have a problem with visitation per se........I just
>have some reservations.
>1) He's never taken care of children.
>2) He and his girlfriend smoke in the house
>3) She currently has health problems (respiratory) and will
>soon have surgery.
>4) Do I have a right insisting on meeting his girlfriend? Not
>trying to be nasty but I would like to know who is staying
>with my baby girl.
>

No, but he may be agreeable if you ask nicely.  

And you can get it stipulated that no one is to smoke around your child.  

mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #8 on: Jun 19, 2007, 08:39:41 PM »
>4) Do I have a right insisting on meeting his girlfriend?
>


No, you don't. My ex suffers from the same belief that she's still part of my life.

He may or may not want you to meet his GF, but you certainly don't have any right to.

backwardsbike

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 324
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #9 on: Jun 21, 2007, 07:23:18 PM »
I am a nurse.  If your child has respiratory issues it is imperative that she no be subjected to second hand smoke.  I like Ref's advice to include dad in the doctor's appointments.  Hopefully- all he'll need is a bit of education.  You are so right to be concerned about this.

I also like the idea of inviting them for a picnic and would go one step further adn have it in perhaps a public park.  The reason: that would be neutral turf.  Hopefully that would put everyoneon even ground and hopefully help both dad and the GF to feel more comfortable.  On the upside for you- you won't have to have this person in your home until you've met.  Then you can make up your mid.  I hope for the sake of your DD that all the adults will get along and even like each other.

I have been a NCM for the last seven years.  My X and I were married- unhappily- for 13 years before we split.  He began dating before I left the home and would often have me babysit for him.  I was really OK with this as, for me, the romatic part of our relationship was over.  I stupidly beleived that if he had another woman he'd have an easier time letting me go.  WRONG.  The woman he latched on to is ocntrolling and has little if any self esteem.  I would never have had the issues I have now if not for her and the judge in my case agrees. However, dad still has custody.

My advice- remain in the role of your child's other. Tolerate NO disrespect from the GF towards you.  You can easily stand up for yourself if need be without getting all hostile about it.  SOmetime I well place comment is all it takes.  Keep your cool, but maintain your place in your child's life.  It is possible to be gracious but not to allow people to take too many liberties.  Thissi wher ei mad emy mistake.  Upon seeing the issues withthe GF turned SM I stepped into the defferential mode. WRONG thing to do. some people really will take a mile if you give an inch.

I don't meant o scare you or get youthinking you don't want to meet her- I'm justhoping for the best for all of you- most of all your DD.  Best wishes and KUDOS to you for wanting to see that your DD has both parents in her life.

wendl

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1470
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #10 on: Jul 10, 2007, 06:37:03 PM »
I was a single mom to. My son went with his father every other weekend since he was 5 months old, (supervised by his parents)

Do it gradually.  Also request he takes parenting classes, child infant cpr classes.

Remember when doing your parenting plan to think of the future example:

Father shall have visitation at xx place from 4pm-6pm on xx days for 3 months.

after 3 months, father shall have visitation from friday 6pm-sat 6pm for xx amount of months.

and so on.

You can ask to meet his g/f but he doesn't have to allow it, if she is a good person she shouldn't have a problem with it, I met all my ex's flings.

You can put a clause in the order that smoking will not be allowed in the hosue or car while child is on visitation with either parent and so on.

Pull up the local school district calender to include holidays, school breaks etc for when the child gets older so you won't have to be going to court every few years for a modificaiton.

Just some things to think about.

Good luck, I am glad you are tyring to get or keep dad involved, I tried for year but my son is now 15 and his dad really choose not to be active only when it was convient for him, so I hope your ex is not the same way.


**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**

Giggles

  • Private Reserve
  • SuperHero
  • ***
  • Posts: 5378
  • Karma: 217
    • View Profile
My situation is VERY simular to yours!!...m
« Reply #11 on: Jul 11, 2007, 10:38:16 AM »
My X-BF walked out when I was 6 months preggo with my DD.  Like you I filed for CS as soon as she was born, but it took 3 YEARS for CS to finally get established.  Thankfully, they dated it back to when I filed and  he started out with a huge arrears amount.

My DD didn't meet her father until she was 6 years old but we were very close to his extended family (His Mom and Dad, sisters, nieces, nephews, etc) and that's how they ended up meeting.  My DD's Grandfather passed away (His Father) and we went to the funeral.  That's when he saw her for the first time.  Let me back up and tell you that at the hearing to set CS, he was asked if he wanted visitation and he stated he did not.  After the funeral he came up to me and said he made a HUGE mistake and that she's the most beautiful child he's ever seen and could he please establish a relationship with her.  I know that was something that Pappy (his father, my DD's Grandfather) had always wanted, so I agreed.

The key to establishing a relationship is to take things slow.  Perhaps the first month or so, have him come to the house and spend a couple hours with her.  If his GF has a problem with this, invite her as well.  Then for a month or so, have him take her for a few hours on the weekends.  Another key is to have them be consistent!!!!  Since she is a lot younger than my DD, this process should go a lot smoother.  Then you can work up to where he takes her for a whole weekend perhaps after about 6 months of CONSISTANT visits.

Like others have stressed, he needs to be educated on her respitory problems and the effect that smoking in the house will have on her.  Perhaps you can get them to agree to NOT do that while she is present!  I also had to do this because my DD has asthma and eventhough I smoke, I do not do it around her, in the house or in my car!!!

As for the CS, it's not designed for him to be paying ALL of her expenses, you bear some responsibility in her expenses as well.   Not sure about FL, but where I am in MD, it's an "Income Shares" state where BOTH parents income is considered in determining CS.  So for example, the CP makes $1500 a month and the NCP makes $1000 and child care is $400 a month.  The CS TOTAL amount would be $786 a month.  With the CP providing 60% of the total cost or $471 and the NCP providing 40% of the total and will have to pay $314.

My DD's father is ordered to pay $287 a month CS and $45 a month for arrears.  My DD's daycare alone is $350, so no...the CS doesn't cover it, but according to MD, he is paying the correct amount of CS (when or if he pays it is a different story) and daycare is factored in the calculation of the support.  I make considerably more than my DD's father so naturally, I bear the most financial burden for my DD.

Does this make sense?
Now I'm living....Just another day in Paradise!!

pebbles

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #12 on: Aug 06, 2007, 12:10:09 PM »
do not let him see her until you have custody papers.

gerogiadad

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #13 on: Aug 06, 2007, 09:28:40 PM »
>Do it gradually.  Also request he takes parenting classes,
>child infant cpr classes.
>

>1) He's never taken care of children.


I think this is wrong, wrong, WRONG

Did you ask him if he had Experience with children at the beginning of your relationship?  

How many mothers have experience with children before their first born.  

Why is everyone so sexist against men to think that they know nothing about children.


Which one of you took a parenting class before you had your first born?

Which of you are Certified in Infant/Child CPR?

This is why the courts are so biased against Fathers.  This is a Stereotype that needs to go the way of the Dodo.  Woman isn't the only one that can take care of children.  

Also, do a Google search for "infants overnight with father" you will see that this site here has some on that.  Males are not incapable.  There are just as many mothers if not more out there that should be scrutinized before being alone with their children.

mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #14 on: Aug 07, 2007, 08:10:46 AM »
>do not let him see her until you have custody papers.

I personally think that's terrible advice. He's her father. If there's no reason to believe that the daughter would be in danger, he has every right to see his daughter.

Even from a selfish perspective, when they go to court, the mother is going to be in a better position with the judge if she has demonstrated a willingness to work with the father rather than to try to alienate their child.

Jade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #15 on: Aug 08, 2007, 06:18:47 PM »
>>Do it gradually.  Also request he takes parenting classes,
>>child infant cpr classes.
>>
>
>>1) He's never taken care of children.
>
>
>I think this is wrong, wrong, WRONG
>
>Did you ask him if he had Experience with children at the
>beginning of your relationship?  

>
>How many mothers have experience with children before their
>first born.  
>

My response:

I babysat babies and small children as a teen-ager.  I was a nanny for 10 years where I took care of small children, including newborns.


You said:


>Why is everyone so sexist against men to think that they know
>nothing about children.
>
My response:

What is wrong with taking a parenting class?  The hospital that I gave birth at had one for both parents.  Not everyone knows how to change a diaper at first.  

You said:
>
>Which one of you took a parenting class before you had your
>first born?

My response:

Over 10 years worth.  And I still took the parenting classes at the hospital as they also covered carseat safety, which had changed since I became a mom.

You said:


>
>Which of you are Certified in Infant/Child CPR?

My response:

Raising my hand.  While I may not be currently certified, I have been over several years.  And have found it handy.  

I think it's just plain common sense for ANYONE to be certified in CPR for all age groups.


You said:
>
>Also, do a Google search for "infants overnight with father"
>you will see that this site here has some on that.  Males are
>not incapable.  There are just as many mothers if not more out
>there that should be scrutinized before being alone with their
>children.
>


My response:

Nobody said the father wasn't capable.  Just that he ISN'T familiar with taking care of a child at all.  

Not to mention that he is a COMPLETE stranger to his child by HIS OWN CHOICE.  

The child shouldn't just be forced to go with a stranger.  And that is essentially what her father is.  It's great that he is stepping up to the plate now, but that doesn't change the fact that his actions made him a stranger.  

kahumano

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #16 on: Aug 09, 2007, 08:38:39 AM »
THANK YOU Jade!!
I haven't been able to respond to any messages lately. For some reason it wouldn't let me post. Anyways......I have nothing against fathers. I know single fathers who have raised their babies and did a great job! But like Jade said I also was a nanny and daycare worker in the past and grew up taking care of children. So I had experience. My fear was because my daughters father doesn't have ANY experience. Not only that but he doesn't know anything about her. Yes lately he has been spending time with her but he hardly even speaks to her. He has recently asked to be able to take her on his own and  I DID AGREE. Being that they have only known each other since July 1,2007 I did have a few requests first that I thought was fair. And he agreed to them.
1) I wanted to be able to come over before hand to his place so I can see where she will be.
2) I wanted to meet the live in girl friend since she will be spending time with Laila. I thought this was fair considering I,myself watch who I bring into my OWN house.
3) It's only to be a few hours at a time at first.

I definitely didn't expect any men to come on here bashing me I will tell you that. Especially when I see alot of women (some of my friends) who do everything against their ex out of spite.
 And to gerogiadad I really think I'm being fair. Turn the shoes around and how would you react if you hadn't heard from the other parent for 2 years and 9 months and all of a sudden they show up? I seriously doubt you would just hand over your 2 year old baby just because they have the same blood.
He may be her father but unfortunatley he's still someone she DOES NOT know. And that was HIS choice as I have done everything I could over the past 2 years to involve him. And believe it or not involve his girlfriend of 3 years.

kahumano

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #17 on: Aug 09, 2007, 08:43:42 AM »
Sorry but I wouldn't to that to my baby girl. Every child has a right to know their parents. And I'm not going to make her pay for his mistakes. When she gets older I will be able to honestly say that I tried.
I'm not doing this for him, I'm doing it for HER.

gerogiadad

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #18 on: Aug 09, 2007, 11:42:35 AM »
I apologize If i sounded like I was bashing you personally.  

Everyone's situation and case is different.  And it was more directed to the generalized statements of my own past.  I have been singled out as just a male that needs to be watched while around his child, I have had the opposing lawyer use the "male" card as a reason for supervised visitation.  I have seen mothers that have raised a child and completely ruined the child's mind and ability to cope with the world without destroying everything around to get attention.  Then tell me that I need to be supervised, why?  Because I am a male and Males can't be around children alone because they know nothing about children.  

That is the stereotype that needs to die away.

The courts need a hefty reason to give him supervised visitation.  So, if you can get him to agree to this supervised visitation without taking it to a judge so be it, but if he has his ducks in a row he can get unsupervised for at least a few hours a day.  
Yes, I had the mother that said, "I need to see you with our child for a while before you can take him alone."  The courts saw it differently because I got my ducks in a row.

In the end, I gained custody and part of the help she gave me was the "stereotyping" which didn't help her case at all.

Jade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #19 on: Aug 09, 2007, 04:28:37 PM »
>The courts need a hefty reason to give him supervised
>visitation.  So, if you can get him to agree to this
>supervised visitation without taking it to a judge so be it,
>but if he has his ducks in a row he can get unsupervised for
>at least a few hours a day.  


Probably now that he has actually spent some time with the baby.

But it is not uncommon for courts to order supervised visits for parents who have not seen their child in a very long time while the child gets to know the parent and gets more comfortable being with the absent parent.

That's not a stereotype, that is taking the child into consideration.  

mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #20 on: Aug 10, 2007, 01:12:51 PM »
>Sorry but I wouldn't to that to my baby girl. Every child has
>a right to know their parents. And I'm not going to make her
>pay for his mistakes. When she gets older I will be able to
>honestly say that I tried.
>I'm not doing this for him, I'm doing it for HER.

If that's what you're trying to do, then stop playing games. Let him see his daughter.

Kitty C.

  • Moderator
  • SuperHero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2612
  • Karma: 938
    • View Profile
Oh boy..............
« Reply #21 on: Aug 10, 2007, 03:21:43 PM »
If that's the case, I'm surprised they let me even take my baby home when he was born!  They went over the standard newborn care that most hospitals give new parents, but that's ALL the 'training' I had and I would venture to say all that a good majority of parents get.  And I didn't know infant CPR either.  The only experience I've ever had (if you want to call it that) was babysitting a few times when I was a teen, and DS was born when I was 27.

Yes, a lot of new parents nowadays are better informed and there's a LOT more information out there from them than there ever was even 15-20 years ago.  But it still doesn't change the fact that, unless you actually have a job taking care of babies, learning how to take care of your newborn is more or less flying by the seat of your pants. you learn as you go.  SO many things that they told me at the hospital didn't even pertain to us.  Every child is different and every situation is different.  And I would also venture to say that every parent, either father or mother, is scared s***less when they bring that first newborn home and they're on their own.  I know I was.  But once parent and baby spend some time getting to know each other, and by lots of repetition, they both learn how to deal with their new world.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog........if you can't play with it or eat it, pee on it and walk away.......

mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #22 on: Aug 10, 2007, 08:40:03 PM »
>THANK YOU Jade!!
>I haven't been able to respond to any messages lately. For
>some reason it wouldn't let me post. Anyways......I have
>nothing against fathers. I know single fathers who have raised
>their babies and did a great job! But like Jade said I also
>was a nanny and daycare worker in the past and grew up taking
>care of children. So I had experience. My fear was because my
>daughters father doesn't have ANY experience. Not only that
>but he doesn't know anything about her. Yes lately he has been
>spending time with her but he hardly even speaks to her. He
>has recently asked to be able to take her on his own and  I
>DID AGREE. Being that they have only known each other since
>July 1,2007 I did have a few requests first that I thought was
>fair. And he agreed to them.
>1) I wanted to be able to come over before hand to his place
>so I can see where she will be.
>2) I wanted to meet the live in girl friend since she will be
>spending time with Laila. I thought this was fair considering
>I,myself watch who I bring into my OWN house.
>3) It's only to be a few hours at a time at first.
>
>I definitely didn't expect any men to come on here bashing me
>I will tell you that. Especially when I see alot of women
>(some of my friends) who do everything against their ex out of
>spite.
> And to gerogiadad I really think I'm being fair. Turn the
>shoes around and how would you react if you hadn't heard from
>the other parent for 2 years and 9 months and all of a sudden
>they show up? I seriously doubt you would just hand over your
>2 year old baby just because they have the same blood.
>He may be her father but unfortunatley he's still someone she
>DOES NOT know. And that was HIS choice as I have done
>everything I could over the past 2 years to involve him. And
>believe it or not involve his girlfriend of 3 years.


The problem is that your actions don't match your words. You SAY you're eager for him to see his daughter, but then you put up endless roadblocks and games.

As a father, he's entitled to see his daughter. You are NOT entitled to tell him how to do that (other than obvious safety issues).

mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #23 on: Aug 10, 2007, 08:41:37 PM »

>Nobody said the father wasn't capable.  Just that he ISN'T
>familiar with taking care of a child at all.  
>


Neither are most mothers when they take their first child home.

Either he's the father and entitled to see his daughter or he's not. The mother does NOT have the right to set all these conditions on when she's going to ALLOW him to see his daughter.

Jade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #24 on: Aug 10, 2007, 10:18:36 PM »
>
>>Nobody said the father wasn't capable.  Just that he ISN'T
>>familiar with taking care of a child at all.  
>>
>
>
>Neither are most mothers when they take their first child
>home.

My response:

Well, I can't speak for all mothers, but I didn't choose not to see my child for 2 years after I gave birth.  I was there from day 1.  Establishing a relationship.  

You are overlooking one tiny fact.  The father CHOSE not to see his child at all.  

You said:


>
>Either he's the father and entitled to see his daughter or
>he's not. The mother does NOT have the right to set all these
>conditions on when she's going to ALLOW him to see his
>daughter.


Actually, until paternity is established, yes, she does.

Are you saying that a 2 year old should be sent off with a complete stranger?  Because that IS what he is.  And by his own choice.  

If I were in her shoes, I wouldn't be concerned about how the father, who chose to be a stranger to his child, felt about how I allowed visitation.  I would be more concerned with giving my very young child the time to get to know and establish some kind of relationship with the stranger that is her father(again,  it was his choice to be a stranger) before sending the small child off with the father.  

The child's emotional well-being is more important.  

And it isn't unheard of for a court to order visitation at the child's home WITH the mother present at first when the child doesn't know the ncp (again, this was the father's choice) so that the child can get to know and establish a relationship with the ncp in a way that doesn't emotionally harm said child.  

The reason that I keep pointing out how it was the father's choice to be a stranger to his child is because you are completely ignoring that.  In fact, you come across like she should have sent a 2 year old child off with someone that the child doesn't even know.  Which happened as a direct result of the father's actions.  Or inaction in this case.  

Jade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #25 on: Aug 10, 2007, 10:20:43 PM »
>>THANK YOU Jade!!
>>I haven't been able to respond to any messages lately. For
>>some reason it wouldn't let me post. Anyways......I have
>>nothing against fathers. I know single fathers who have
>raised
>>their babies and did a great job! But like Jade said I also
>>was a nanny and daycare worker in the past and grew up
>taking
>>care of children. So I had experience. My fear was because
>my
>>daughters father doesn't have ANY experience. Not only that
>>but he doesn't know anything about her. Yes lately he has
>been
>>spending time with her but he hardly even speaks to her. He
>>has recently asked to be able to take her on his own and  I
>>DID AGREE. Being that they have only known each other since
>>July 1,2007 I did have a few requests first that I thought
>was
>>fair. And he agreed to them.
>>1) I wanted to be able to come over before hand to his place
>>so I can see where she will be.
>>2) I wanted to meet the live in girl friend since she will
>be
>>spending time with Laila. I thought this was fair
>considering
>>I,myself watch who I bring into my OWN house.
>>3) It's only to be a few hours at a time at first.
>>
>>I definitely didn't expect any men to come on here bashing
>me
>>I will tell you that. Especially when I see alot of women
>>(some of my friends) who do everything against their ex out
>of
>>spite.
>> And to gerogiadad I really think I'm being fair. Turn the
>>shoes around and how would you react if you hadn't heard
>from
>>the other parent for 2 years and 9 months and all of a
>sudden
>>they show up? I seriously doubt you would just hand over
>your
>>2 year old baby just because they have the same blood.
>>He may be her father but unfortunatley he's still someone
>she
>>DOES NOT know. And that was HIS choice as I have done
>>everything I could over the past 2 years to involve him. And
>>believe it or not involve his girlfriend of 3 years.
>
>
>The problem is that your actions don't match your words. You
>SAY you're eager for him to see his daughter, but then you put
>up endless roadblocks and games.
>
>As a father, he's entitled to see his daughter. You are NOT
>entitled to tell him how to do that (other than obvious safety
>issues).


Her actions DO match her words.  She is giving her child the time to get to know her father (who chose to be a stranger to his child, btw) and not just thrusting her child into a situation that is emotionally harmful.  Sending a small child off with a complete stranger (again, this was the father's choice) is harmful.  

mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #26 on: Aug 11, 2007, 08:36:12 AM »
>The reason that I keep pointing out how it was the father's
>choice to be a stranger to his child is because you are
>completely ignoring that.  In fact, you come across like she
>should have sent a 2 year old child off with someone that the
>child doesn't even know.  Which happened as a direct result of
>the father's actions.  Or inaction in this case.  


I'm not ignoring that at all. I just don't think it's particularly relevant.

The father wants to see his child. The mother is putting all sorts of roadblocks in his way. That's not right.

If it were simply "I'd like for him to see the child in my house the first time or two", I wouldn't have a problem with it. But she keeps throwing out one roadblock after another and excuses why the father should be kept from seeing his daughter. THAT is what I'm objecting to.

Jade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #27 on: Aug 11, 2007, 08:57:46 AM »
>>The reason that I keep pointing out how it was the father's
>>choice to be a stranger to his child is because you are
>>completely ignoring that.  In fact, you come across like she
>>should have sent a 2 year old child off with someone that
>the
>>child doesn't even know.  Which happened as a direct result
>of
>>the father's actions.  Or inaction in this case.  
>
>
>I'm not ignoring that at all. I just don't think it's
>particularly relevant.
>


Of course you don't.

But a judge probably will.  

She's not throwing up roadblocks because she wants to take it slow.  

The father has already shown that he's not that particularly interested.  This could be just a passing phase in his life.  

The child is what is important here.  Not the father, not the mother.

The child doesn't know her father through the fathers own choice.  The child should not have to be forced into long periods of visitation with a stranger.  And it takes more than a time or two for a small child to be comfortable with a person.  

kahumano

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #28 on: Aug 11, 2007, 05:09:35 PM »
Nah.. not road blocks. I just love my baby girl enough not to just drop her off with a complete stranger. And I love her enough to do all I can to make sure she is going to be in safe hands. Sounds like you just have a little bitterness concerning your own experience maybe. Hey, this is a man who abandoned his daughter. I don't really care what his legal rights are until he takes me to court. Until then I will do whatever it takes for them to have a relationship but also make sure she's in good hands.

kahumano

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #29 on: Aug 11, 2007, 05:34:50 PM »
Nope, not playing games. Her safety and welfare comes first. I won't air his dirty laundry on here but lets just say I have reasons that justify my concerns. Actually, I doubt he would ever take me to court because they probably would order supervised visits.

mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #30 on: Aug 11, 2007, 05:36:44 PM »
>Nah.. not road blocks. I just love my baby girl enough not to
>just drop her off with a complete stranger. And I love her
>enough to do all I can to make sure she is going to be in safe
>hands. Sounds like you just have a little bitterness
>concerning your own experience maybe. Hey, this is a man who
>abandoned his daughter. I don't really care what his legal
>rights are until he takes me to court. Until then I will do
>whatever it takes for them to have a relationship but also
>make sure she's in good hands.

It's not about bitterness (my situation actually went reasonably well). It's about mothers thinking that they can continue to control everyone's life after a divorce.

You threw out at least 3 roadblocks that I counted, several of them quite unreasonable. Furthermore, some people here have been suggesting that you prevent ANY visitation without a court order. That's even more unreasonable.

As I said, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to visit the child in your home (with you completely out of the way) the first time or two. After that, he's the father and you don't seem to understand that. Whether he's a good father or not isn't at all relevant. He has the right to live his life and see his daughter without your constant interference.

kahumano

  • New Arrival
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #31 on: Aug 11, 2007, 05:40:01 PM »
I really couldn't care less what his legal rights are. If he wants to take me to court then I would have no choice of course. But after they review everything he would then be stuck with supervised visits. Maybe that's why he is agreeing to go along with my demands.


Jade

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #32 on: Aug 11, 2007, 06:49:58 PM »
>>Nah.. not road blocks. I just love my baby girl enough not
>to
>>just drop her off with a complete stranger. And I love her
>>enough to do all I can to make sure she is going to be in
>safe
>>hands. Sounds like you just have a little bitterness
>>concerning your own experience maybe. Hey, this is a man who
>>abandoned his daughter. I don't really care what his legal
>>rights are until he takes me to court. Until then I will do
>>whatever it takes for them to have a relationship but also
>>make sure she's in good hands.
>
>It's not about bitterness (my situation actually went
>reasonably well). It's about mothers thinking that they can
>continue to control everyone's life after a divorce.
>
>You threw out at least 3 roadblocks that I counted, several of
>them quite unreasonable. Furthermore, some people here have
>been suggesting that you prevent ANY visitation without a
>court order. That's even more unreasonable.

My response:

Pointing out that it is not unheard of for a judge to order supervised visits in the beginning when the father is a complete stranger to the child in response to you saying that she should just leave her small child alone with a stranger (again, this is by the father's choice) is not the same as saying not to allow visits without a court order.  

Nor is mentioning that she doesn't have to allow visits until paternity (or a court order for that matter) has been established is not the same as saying that visits should be prevented (which this mother clearly is not doing, she is allowing visits in a way that takes the CHILD into consideration).  Just that, she in fact, doesn't have to allow visits at all.  


You said:

>
>As I said, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to visit
>the child in your home (with you completely out of the way)
>the first time or two.

My response:

There is NO WAY on earth I would leave a 2 year old, even in her home, alone with a stranger (and that IS what this father is to the child, BY HIS OWN CHOICE).  I wouldn't even let a babysitter alone with my 2 year old without several visits (read that as more than a couple) with me there.    It's called taking the child into consideration.  I know that is a foreign concept for you, but there are parents who do that.

You said:


>After that, he's the father and you
>don't seem to understand that.

My response:

You don't seem to understand that it takes longer than a couple of visits for a 2 year old to become comfortable with a stranger enough to be away from the primary caretaker.  

You don't seem to understand that it was the father who made himself a stranger.  

Just because he's the father doesn't mean that the child's emotional well-being and rights shouldn't be taken into consideration.  

Again, it is not unheard of for a judge to order supervised visits for a couple of MONTHS when one of the parents is a stranger to the child.  

You said:

Whether he's a good father or
>not isn't at all relevant.

My response:

What is relevant is that the father CHOSE to be a stranger to his child.  He now must live with the consequences of HIS actions.  And one of them is having to have supervised visits until the child becomes comfortable with him.

You said:

 He has the right to live his life
>and see his daughter without your constant interference.

My response:

And the child (you know, the one he abandoned) has a right to get to know and be comfortable with the stranger (again, this is by the father's choice) before going off with him.  By the time she is comfortable with him, he will no longer be a stranger.



mistoffolees

  • Sr. Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1697
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Single mother,advice on father visitation
« Reply #33 on: Aug 11, 2007, 09:44:36 PM »
>
>You don't seem to understand that it takes longer than a
>couple of visits for a 2 year old to become comfortable with a
>stranger enough to be away from the primary caretaker.  
>
[rest of post snippped because it was more of the same]

This is absurd. Millions of people leave their children with a baby sitter who has not been back to the house repeatedly. The father should at least have the same rights.

I'm very protective of my daughter, but I have an agency which screens sitters and I use them regularly - without asking the sitter to spend many times in my house.

You seem to want to blame the father for everything - and keep him from seeing his daughter for silly reasons. Maybe we should turn it around - he was good enough for the mother to sleep with and have a baby with, but not good enough to see the baby. See how silly that sounds?

I think you're being paranoid - or finding excuses to keep the father from seeing the child.

 

Copyright © SPARC - A Parenting Advocacy Group
Use of this website does not constitute a client/attorney relationship and this site does not provide legal advice.
If you need legal assistance for divorce, child custody, or child support issues, seek advice from a divorce lawyer.