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Author Topic: Hummm....  (Read 5067 times)

olanna

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Hummm....
« on: Jan 18, 2005, 12:02:26 PM »


Cosette

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RE: Hummm....
« Reply #1 on: Jan 18, 2005, 01:10:33 PM »
OMG...that explains everything that's gone/been wrong in my life. It's not about any bad choices I made myself. Whew, you have no idea, ola, what a relief this is off my mind. At last there's a place I can lay blame other than onto myself. Happy Day!!

MafiaMom

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LOL!
« Reply #2 on: Jan 18, 2005, 01:13:48 PM »
Okay, let's take "blame" to a whole 'nuther level...
Love me without fear-Need me without demanding-Trust me without question-Want me without restrictions-Accept me without change. Find my soul and I'm yours 4ever

olanna

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Myt thoughts exactly...
« Reply #3 on: Jan 18, 2005, 02:40:00 PM »
now I know why I chose bad mates!  I was supposed to do it because my cellular memory wanted me to do it....and I can blame everything on my ancestors now...

Whew...for a minute there I, too, thought I had to take personal responsiblity for all the f'ups in my life...

You just don't know how relieved I feel.

olanna

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I prefer guilt to blame
« Reply #4 on: Jan 18, 2005, 02:41:16 PM »
so long as I can blame someone else...

who would have thought that all this time, it's just our cells remembering things we can't?


Brent

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LOL!!!
« Reply #5 on: Jan 18, 2005, 04:41:30 PM »
What a fabulous load of utter horseshit. Anyone stupid enough to believe in that crap is, by definition, retarded.  In my opinion, anyone stupid enough to believe in nonsense like that shouldn't be allowed to drive or vote, because both those activities require a minimal level of intelligence.

For eample, listen to this bit of *cough* "wisdom":

5-What does science say:

'Energy is neither gained nor lost, but changes form.'-One of the most prophetic scientific statements of our time.

'Everything is made of energy.'-A statement agreeable to almost every scientist alive.

If these two widely known statements are true then:

- Events are energy, they are the interaction of 2 or more energies.

- Memories are energy, they are energetic imprints of events, as if an energetic snapshot.

That ridculous brain-dead "reasoning" is no different than this ridculous brain-dead "reasoning":

- The light in my refrigerator comes on when I open it
- I never see Elvis in my refrigerator.

THEREFORE, Elvis runs and hides whenever the light in my refrigerator comes on.

And some more:

"Cellular memory is a Divine Database containing the keys to the Universe, God, Love, Yourself, etc."

Geeeez, let's hope they have a good password on that database. I'd hate for hackers to get in there and mess up the universe or delete the file that has "love" in it. And let's hope god keeps backups, just in case., lol.


This just *proves* that there is no limit to how stupid a person can be and what infantile garbage some people can be convinced to believe in.


Lol, thanks Olanna!

olanna

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LMAO...
« Reply #6 on: Jan 18, 2005, 05:17:09 PM »
and yes, I agree with you completely.  But isn't it a great way to say we aren't responsible for anything we feel or do???? Our cells made us do it.

cathy

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Guys --------------
« Reply #7 on: Jan 19, 2005, 08:19:16 AM »
There was someone on one of the other boards that very recently posted about following this and how much it had helped them.  

While it may not be the answer for everyone, I would respectfully suggest that we show a little more respect for others - at least until we have all the answers ourselves.

(Personally, I don't find this to be something I could embrace - anymore than I can accept a baby born of a virgin or conceived by a white elephant entering a woman's womb.  But I certainly don't think that all christians and buddhist are ignorant, stupid and deserving on utter contempt)

Brent

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RE: Guys --------------
« Reply #8 on: Jan 19, 2005, 09:30:55 AM »

>While it may not be the answer for everyone, I would
>respectfully suggest that we show a little more respect for
>others - at least until we have all the answers ourselves.

No offense cathy, but I can't be respectful of things that are utter crap.

The person you spoke of has the right to believe in whatever ridiculous baloney she wants to, but please don't ask me to be respectful of things that are provably false. He doesn't have the right to expect that I'll respect his belief.

Really- are we supposed to accept any kind of foolishness and then legitimize it by "respecting" it?

If someone believes in Batman, should I be respectful of their belief? How about if they believe Hitler was a "great leader" and a "good person", should I respect that belief? Sorry, but that's denying reality. I won't do it. Same thing with "cellular memory". It's crap. It's NOT TRUE, and I won't pretend to respect it. If someone can't defend their beliefs and needs others to "respect" their crazy ideas, they're out of luck, I won't go along with it.

It's not my fault if they believe in something that's so stupid as to be undefendable.


>
>  But I
>certainly don't think that all christians and buddhist are
>ignorant, stupid and deserving on utter contempt)

When a person believe in something that cannot possibly be true, please don't expect anyone else to go along with their delusions. Sorry, but I'm calling like I see it, and believing in "cellular memory" is just plain idiotic. I can't be respectful of something I know to be a lie.

cathy

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Respect, tolerance
« Reply #9 on: Jan 19, 2005, 09:47:18 AM »
By respect, I don't mean you have to give credence or agree.  You can respectfully state that you do not believe in something.  You can even respectfully say that you don't understand how anyone can.  Nothing is gain by putting someone down for holding different beliefs than you.

Do you believe in any particular religion?  Do you think others that aren't of that religion are stupid?  Do you think their beliefs are "undefendable"?  That their ideas are crazy and you have no respect for them?

For you, "cellular memory" may be crap and "NOT TRUE".  To some, it may hold truth and may help them.  Where's the harm?

And that is the big difference in the examples you gave - this does not harm anyone.  For some, it seems to help.  So why the extreme intolerance?

None of us have all the answers.  None of us know what is "the truth" and what isn't.  I just think a little tolerance for others would go a long way in helping.

cathy

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Respect, tolerance
« Reply #10 on: Jan 19, 2005, 09:47:18 AM »
By respect, I don't mean you have to give credence or agree.  You can respectfully state that you do not believe in something.  You can even respectfully say that you don't understand how anyone can.  Nothing is gain by putting someone down for holding different beliefs than you.

Do you believe in any particular religion?  Do you think others that aren't of that religion are stupid?  Do you think their beliefs are "undefendable"?  That their ideas are crazy and you have no respect for them?

For you, "cellular memory" may be crap and "NOT TRUE".  To some, it may hold truth and may help them.  Where's the harm?

And that is the big difference in the examples you gave - this does not harm anyone.  For some, it seems to help.  So why the extreme intolerance?

None of us have all the answers.  None of us know what is "the truth" and what isn't.  I just think a little tolerance for others would go a long way in helping.

Brent

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RE: Respect, tolerance
« Reply #11 on: Jan 19, 2005, 10:14:35 AM »
>By respect, I don't mean you have to give credence or agree.
>You can respectfully state that you do not believe in
>something.  You can even respectfully say that you don't
>understand how anyone can.

I could, but that would be condoning belief in something that just isn't true. Doesn't that mean anything? Should we validate every crazy belief in the name of "respect"?

To me, respect is earned. It doesn't come by default. And believing in crazy nonsense is NOT the way to get "respect".


> Nothing is gain by putting someone
>down for holding different beliefs than you.

I think there is. I think that when a crazy belief is ridiculed for what it is, it may teach others to think more carefully (and rationally) about what they believe in.



>
>Do you believe in any particular religion?  Do you think
>others that aren't of that religion are stupid?  Do you think
>their beliefs are "undefendable"?  That their ideas are crazy
>and you have no respect for them?

Well, yes, that about sums it up. I have no respect for or belief in religion. If someone else wants to believe, great, but don't expect me to play along. After all, aren't they supposed to respect MY beliefs? Well, my belief is that it's all a load of nonsense.  If someone wants to take me to task for that, so be it. I still won't believe.




>For you, "cellular memory" may be crap and "NOT TRUE".  To
>some, it may hold truth and may help them.  Where's the harm?

The harm is that IT'S NOT TRUE, goddamnit. Has our culture sunk so low that whether or not something is true doesn't even matter any more??

YOU know it's not true. I know it's not true. Why do we have to pretend to respect something we KNOW isn't true?



>And that is the big difference in the examples you gave - this
>does not harm anyone.  For some, it seems to help.  So why the
>extreme intolerance?

I'm intolerant of lies.  I'm intolerant of mystical bullcrap. I'm intolerant of people believing in things that are bogus, and I'm not going to apologize or br ashamed about it. I'm also not going to tippy-toe around in order to protect anyone's feelings when it comes to believing in things that just aren't true.



>None of us have all the answers.  None of us know what is "the
>truth" and what isn't.  

I love this argument, because it's got more holes in it than an Asian whorehouse. ;)

Look, just because we can't know everything doesn't mean we can't know some things. To defend this sort of belief with the argument that no one knows everything is tantamount to saying that there is nothing we can be sure of, nothing we can really know.

It's just not true.

Your friend is welcome to believe in whatever she wants, no matter how dumb, stupid, or illogical.  I'm welcome to not believe, and to say so out loud. I'm sorry, I just can't find a "respectful" way to go along with something that's 100% utter crap.
 


>I just think a little tolerance for
>others would go a long way in helping.

In helping to do what? To spread ignorance? To foster belief in things that simply aren't true?

cathy

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Agree to disagree
« Reply #12 on: Jan 19, 2005, 10:55:34 AM »
Respecting an individual does not mean condoning their beliefs.  It is simply a mutual understanding that we are all free to believe in whatever we want.

Absolutely you have the right to disagree with anything.  Call a spade a spade.  If it is bullshit, call it bullshit.  But if a person believes in and finds comfort in that bullshit, that doesn't make them any less of a person.  It doesn't make them stupid, ignorant or worthy of disdain.

The example of religion - we sound like we are probably in agreement.  I simply cannot suspend belief in everything I have experienced and learned to accept the concepts and terms of religion.  I do not believe babies are born to virgins, I do not believe people come back from the dead, I do not believe water can be turned into wine, etc etc etc.  But I do know lots of people that do - some of these people are some of the smarted, most intelligient, most influential people in the world.  There is no way I would say they shouldn't be allowed to drive or vote because they believe in something so stupid as a particular religion!  

For ME, these things are not true.  For others, they may be.  Even if they AREN'T true, if they bring comfort or insight to someone, who am I to put them down for it?  Whether it is "cellular memory" or religion - I am happy if someone finds something that helps them without harming others.  In fact, I'm somewhat jealous in some ways.  I often think how comforting it must be to believe in religion, or to have some method you feel helps you in understanding yourself better.

Just a clarification - it was not a friend - it was a poster on another board at this site.  They posted about their experience and the fact that it had provided insight to her and helped her.

Again, I don't have all the answers.  I do know what I believe is true and what I believe is not.  But just as we all have to select what we believe in, we all have to elect our code on conduct.  I have elected to make an effort to be tolerant of others and their differences, to try to respect the person if not their beliefs, and to attempt to learn from things I don't understand.   By no means am I always successful at it though!!  

Maybe this clarifies my position a little better - I'm not sure.  But it seems like this is just one of those "agree to disagree" areas!  

Brent

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RE: Agree to disagree
« Reply #13 on: Jan 19, 2005, 11:28:03 AM »

>Absolutely you have the right to disagree with anything.  Call
>a spade a spade.  If it is bullshit, call it bullshit.  But if
>a person believes in and finds comfort in that bullshit, that
>doesn't make them any less of a person.

Well, actually I think it does. I think anyone who can't reason logically and who instead *chooses*  to believe in fantasy-laden psuedo-scientific bullcrap is NOT a real human being, and is not worthy of being taken seriously.



>It doesn't make them
>stupid, ignorant or worthy of disdain.

I think it does. If a person believes in something that is utterly ridiculous, what does that say about that person? Why should I respect someone that believes in the silliest crap to come down the pike in decades?


>
>The example of religion - we sound like we are probably in
>agreement.  I simply cannot suspend belief in everything I
>have experienced and learned to accept the concepts and terms
>of religion.  I do not believe babies are born to virgins, I
>do not believe people come back from the dead, I do not
>believe water can be turned into wine, etc etc etc.

Exactly.





>For ME, these things are not true.  For others, they may be.

It soesn't work that way. Something either is or isn't. There is no such thing as subjective "truth".


>I often think how
>comforting it must be to believe in religion, or to have some
>method you feel helps you in understanding yourself better.

I prefer reality. It may be uncomfortable, but I refuse to pretend in things I know aren't real.



>
>Just a clarification - it was not a friend - it was a poster
>on another board at this site.  They posted about their
>experience and the fact that it had provided insight to her
>and helped her.

She sounds like she needs a lot more help than she'll get from believing in "cellular memory". If anything, it will only DEEPEN her pathology and make it even more difficult for her to manage her existence in the real world. Allowing someone to buy into this kind of crap isn't doing them any favors, believe me.



>
>Again, I don't have all the answers.

I may not have all the answers, but that doesn't mean I don't have some of the answers.



>Maybe this clarifies my position a little better - I'm not
>sure.  But it seems like this is just one of those "agree to
>disagree" areas!  

Okay.



cathy

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Sorry - another question
« Reply #14 on: Jan 19, 2005, 11:52:31 AM »
Brent -

Hope you don't mind, but I'm really rather fascinated here.  I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who believes what you do in such an extreme manner.  Had a couple of questions.

So do you believe every Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc  is not a real human being?  That you have no respect for them and they should not be taken seriously?

(Please do understand - I am not being a smart ass with this question.  I am truly curious and would like to make sure I understand your position)

What is your measurement of "truth"?  I mean, sure, I can agree there are things that we pretty much know with certainty, that can be scientifically proven.  But there seems to be many things that are not so certain, that cannot be necessarily "proven".  And then, at least for me, there are a lot of things that I truly believe we just do not know, that can't necessarily be "proven" to be true or false.

Brent

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RE: Sorry - another question
« Reply #15 on: Jan 19, 2005, 12:34:48 PM »
>So do you believe every Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc
>is not a real human being?  That you have no respect for them
>and they should not be taken seriously?

I wouldn't say that exactly, but I think anyone who truly believes in mystical forces and who engages in that sort of 'magical thinking' isn't fully rational. I have a dificult time respecting anyone who willingly believes in this stuff. Sorry, call me intolerant, but sometimes intolerance is called for. I'm intolerant of racism and bigotry, and by the same token I'm intolerant of willful ignorance.

Let me put it this way:

Would you want someone who holds these beliefs to be the person diagnosing your x-ray or putting rivets in the wing of an airplane you're going to fly in?




>What is your measurement of "truth"?  I mean, sure, I can
>agree there are things that we pretty much know with
>certainty, that can be scientifically proven.  

That's my definition, but it doesn't exclude the rest of the universe at large.



>But there seems
>to be many things that are not so certain, that cannot be
>necessarily "proven".  

Sure, and some of them will likely turn out to be real, be true. But that doesn't mean that ANY idea (no matter how whacky) should be respected and tolerated.


>And then, at least for me, there are a
>lot of things that I truly believe we just do not know, that
>can't necessarily be "proven" to be true or false.

Same here.  But "cellular memory" isn't one of them. An idea must have some reasonable basis for believing in it, otherwise it's wide open and anything goes, anything "could" be.

Elvis could be hiding in my fridge, but there's no reasonable basis to believe that he actually is.

According to your point of view, however, if that thought somehow helped me cope with the world, it should be respected. That's where I stop nodding my head.

I'm not telling anyone what to believe, but if they believe in things that conflict with my best guess at reality, then I'm not going to be able to take them seriously- they've shown their perceptions to be too far off from mine, and I have no reason to believe that their perceptions and beliefs are more accurate than mine.

Show me it's real and I'll be an instant convert, but until then I have to use my best judgement based on my perceptions.

Davy

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Guys -- here's the answer
« Reply #16 on: Jan 19, 2005, 05:32:01 PM »

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington
chemistry mid-term. The answer by one student was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of
course, why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.


Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic
(absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law
(gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some
variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we
need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at
which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different
religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state
that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since
there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong
to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.

This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls
enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until
all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in
Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.


So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you", and take
into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number 2 must
be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over.

Of course, the corollary of this theory is that since Hell has
frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is
therefore, extinct...leaving only Heaven thereby proving the existence of
a divine being which explains why, last night,   Teresa kept shouting  "Oh my God."

THIS STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY "A

4honor

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Informational ONLY. Please do not respond. (Religious in nature.)
« Reply #17 on: Jan 22, 2005, 09:35:48 AM »
"...I do not believe babies are born to virgins, I do not believe people come back from the dead, I do not believe water can be turned into wine, etc etc etc..."

I SAW a man be raised from the dead (pronounced at  the scene by an MD dead for 30 mintues waiting for the coroner) in the name of Jesus Christ. That was 5 years ago.

I SAW a woman (known to me for many years) be completely healed in the name of Jesus Christ, from COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease.) She could not walk, could barely talk and had to be on oxygen every minute of every day. She had no air to sing before. Now she is a soloist in the choir - that was 4 years ago.

I believed before, but I have also SEEN with my own eyes. These weren't people I had never seen before and never saw after. These were people I saw EVERY Sunday over the course of several years.

I know this will not change your mind. I almost feel sorry that you are limted by your belief in ONLY yourself. There is truth other than what one thinks, feels, sees, touches, hears, tastes, smells or what can be logically derived.

Jesus Christ said, "I am the Way the TRUTH and the Life, no one comes to God except through me." Is it "intolerant" to tell someone that since the house has only one door and no windows, you'll have to use the door to get in? Guess I am intolerant then. Is it intolerant and disrespectful to say, "Hey, it's pouring out there, you should think about taking an umbrella" and then I point to the umbrella stand where there is enough for all? If you have an umbrella already, you go on your way, if you don't, you can take one or not, but you make an informed decision. If I don't say anything, when I know it is pouring and the Boss told me to make sure everyone knows there are free umbrellas for the taking, then that makes me both insubordinate, and uncaring of my fellow workers.

If I believe there is no bus, is that going to keep it from hitting me as it speeds toward me? It is the same with the promise of Heaven and hell. If you are going to believe there is no God, you better be right, cause none of us are getting out of this life alive.  ;)

I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God and my Savior and King. I belive He was born of a virgin (devine in vivo fertilization, if you will - scientifically possible today BTW.) I believe that He is fully God and fully man.

I believe He lived a sinless life (possible because He is God) and died on a wooden cross as a blood sacrifice, the only bridge between God and man (God made the world, He gets to make the rules).  We ran away from God and He made a way for us to get back. What father would not do the same?

I believe He was buried and raised again three days later. I believe that when He finished what he came to do, He was caught up to Heaven once again. I believe that all these things were prophecied hundred of years before His birth.

I believe that I can accept His crucifixion as a substitute for my own blood, as a sacrifice,  and I will not have to suffer the ultimate penalty of my actions/sin upon my death. In accepting this, I am accepting adoption into the family of the living God and He becomes my Father.

I believe this is a free gift to anyone who wants it and is willing to believe. I believe this is the first of many wonderful gifts Father God gives His children. I believe that the very best thigns about my human father is only a dim shadow of all that my Heavenly Father is. I believe God gave us fathers to help us understand about his love for us.

I believe there is a hell and that there will be a "sorting" of our souls (the culmination of our mind, intellect and emotion) into those spending eternity in the lake of fire in utter agony and darkness (eternal dying),  and those spending eternity walking on streets of gold, living in a mansion, being in the presence of light and life (eternal life). God will make the judgement who is sorted where, and He doesn't need my input on that. He gave me a task, "Tell everyone you meet where the only door is."

So, there's the door.
A true soldier fights, not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves whats behind him...dear parents, please remember not to continue to fight because you hate your ex, but because you love your children.

cathy

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Not fair to say "don't reply"
« Reply #18 on: Jan 22, 2005, 12:28:48 PM »
-----------------------------------------------
I know this will not change your mind. I almost feel sorry that you are limted by your belief in ONLY yourself. There is truth other than what one thinks, feels, sees, touches, hears, tastes, smells or what can be logically derived.
----------------------------------------------

You are right - this absolutely does not change my mind.  And you really shouldn't make assumptions.  You have NO IDEA what I believe in and I find it rather amazing that you would make the claim that I believed ONLY in myself.

If I may quote from the book I assume is the basis of your belief:

"Judge not lest ye be judged."

If you can believe in those teachings, more power to you.  I can't and don't.  I do know I could debate this with you - and use your own bible against you and your arguments.  But I won't - it would be pointless.  

Be happy in your choices - - - I am happy in mine.

4honor

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A Common retort...
« Reply #19 on: Jan 22, 2005, 02:37:50 PM »
But I have made no judgment calls. I said that I have experienced miracles. That I believe in the sovreignty of Jesus Christ, and part of that belief is that He is the only way. I have not said anyone is past the point of redemption. How could I know your heart and soul?

And if you wish to quote Matthew 7:1, at least finish the sentence by going on to verse 2. It says:
"Judge not lest you be judged... according to the measure you use."

And John 7:24 says, "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement."

So it is not saying don't judge at all, but to make sure of the criteria you use. It should be righteous and you should be willing to be measured by the same yard stick.

A true soldier fights, not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves whats behind him...dear parents, please remember not to continue to fight because you hate your ex, but because you love your children.

cathy

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Contradiction
« Reply #20 on: Jan 22, 2005, 04:21:50 PM »
Exactly - how could you know my heart and soul?  Yet you presumed to state that I am limited by my belief in only myself.  To quote your post:

"I almost feel sorry that you are limted by your belief in ONLY yourself."

In my book - that is a judgement.  I do not feel the need, nor I am "willing to be measured" by your yard stick, you, or your god.  As my mother says, who is very much a believer in the same notions as you - Her God is more than capable of making his own judgements, he doesn't need you to help him.  I may not believe as she does, but I very much respect her in that respect.

I can throw out scripture to you as well - but I won't.  And really, it is obvious that I do not believe in these scriptures.  Quoting them to me serves no purpose, it does not strengthen your position.  Believe me, I have heard them before.

Again - you are happy in your choices.  I am happy in mine.  Let's say we leave it at that.  I won't try to change your mind, you don't try to change mine.

Brent

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RE: Contradiction
« Reply #21 on: Jan 24, 2005, 10:28:16 AM »
As George Bush said, "Jesus helps me trick people."

Frankly I have little respect for anyone who believes in any brand of mystical hocus-pocus. It's ALL crap, no matter what they think they've seen or what they choose to attribute it to. Really.....bring the dead back to life? Wouldn't the Army be interested in that? Why aren't they using it, if it really works?

4Honor:
"I SAW a man be raised from the dead.."

No, you didn't.  You  may have seen someone revived, but attributing it to your own personal brand of religion is ridiculous. And a bit pompous, I might add. Do Bhuddists and Pentacostalists and Mormons get to miraculously revive people, or does it only work with your personal brand of God©?


4Honor:
"I SAW a woman (known to me for many years) be completely healed in the name of Jesus Christ, from COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease.)"

So....you diagnosed this woman yourself with your medical training and you can show us the records of her "miraculous" recovery? I don't think so.


Look, believe whatever you like, but please don't post your Sermonette stuff here and tell people not to respond. That's a cowardly act. The fact is, this kind of stuff just doesn't happen. You may thinkyou know what you "saw", but if it was true, WHY DOESN'T EVERY HOSPITAL IN THE WORLD RELY ON GOD EXCLUSIVELY?

Answer: Because it's all a load of crap! You can't cure people by believing in an invisible super-being.

gabond

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RE: Guys -- here's the answer
« Reply #22 on: Jan 25, 2005, 05:04:04 PM »
davy, thank you for that.
cathy, brent, thank you for one of the more rational "religious" arguments it's ever been my priveledge to witness.
4honor. good luck. in everything. I beleive you're going to need it.

btw, i'm 23, and am alive due only to a gross absence of physics in an incident 8 years ago where i was stabbed 6 times and beaten by a group of 100+ teens. i should be dead. there is no logical reason why a knife which can cut through my neck, ribs, elbow, etc, would push the carotid artery to the side as it made a vertical cut the ENTIRE length of my neck.
Thankfully, the knife DID push the carotid artery aside 2/3 the lenth of the cut. otherwise i'd have bled to death before the paramedics got there.
Am I one lucky SOB? Yes.
Did a "god" save me? don't know. insufficient data. doubt it.
any "god" that allows the slaughter of millions around the world in various ways but would take the time to bend the world he supposedly created just to save one punk who doesn't even think he's there is worthless and deserves to go to his own hell and leave us monkeys alone.

I've watched a man die. I've witnessed atrocities to reason and decency.
Nothing has ever convinced me that ANY Religion is anything but a crutch for people too weak to accept that WE are the ones in charge of our lives and our world.

Just my opinion. I guess (like all religious arguments) this one won't be settled until we all die.

Brent

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RE: Guys -- here's the answer
« Reply #23 on: Jan 26, 2005, 12:41:02 PM »

>the lenth of the cut. otherwise i'd have bled to death before
>the paramedics got there.
>Am I one lucky SOB? Yes.
>Did a "god" save me? don't know. insufficient data. doubt it.

Yep.

I always find it AMAZING that "god" is credited for all of the good things that happen but none of the bad things. That's kinda stupid and willfully blind to reality if you ask me.

God lets little girls and boys be raped and murdered. If one of them happens to survive, everyone who believes in 'god' dances around like imbeciles and thanks 'god' for this miraculous thing. Why don't they blame 'god' for allowing it to happen in the first place? Answer: Because that's bad public relations for 'god'.  

Why did 'god' kill 100,000 people in the tsunami? What did they do to deserve that? Who knows, but my guess is that they weren't ALL 'sinners'. So all those people perish and no one blames 'god'....but let one person be found clinging to a tree alive, and all of a sudden it's god's will, a 'miraculous intervention'.  For some reason, 'god' never gets the blame for any of the bad things that happen, which seems a bit ridiculous to me.



>any "god" that allows the slaughter of millions around the
>world in various ways but would take the time to bend the
>world he supposedly created just to save one punk who doesn't
>even think he's there is worthless and deserves to go to his
>own hell and leave us monkeys alone.

Bingo. God seems awfully petty, don't ya think?



>Nothing has ever convinced me that ANY Religion is anything
>but a crutch for people too weak to accept that WE are the
>ones in charge of our lives and our world.

Religion has been responsible for more death and war and hatred than anything else in recorded history. The 9-11 tragedy was a direct result of religion, and so is everything that is going on in Iraq right now (and for the last 1000 years, too).

To me, belief in 'god' is a sign of an inability to reason and think logically. It's an excuse to hate those who don't believe in whatever you believe in. It's just plain bullcrap.

I mean, for crying out loud, it's 2005 and people still want to believe in their Invisible Friend In The Sky. It's about time to put that crap to bed and start taking respnsibility for our own actions.


4honor

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Response
« Reply #24 on: Jan 26, 2005, 04:56:37 PM »
Asking for no response was to avoid a debate.... one has started, 'nuff said? Real productive to date, huh?

I do not own the woman's medical records, but was allowed to see them, diagnosis on every page for the past 10 years COPD.

And as far as can anyone heal, or just my particular brand, I believe any bozo could heal in the name Jesus Christ if they believe. If you can't believe, obviously you can't "go there" yourself. If you can get past that unbelief thing you are welcome to take a shot at it.

And as far as hospitals relying exclusively on God, doctors tend to believe they ARE GOD, so since they would have to believe in something outside of themselves...it isn't going to happen any time soon.

Brent, I have known for years where you stand... we had this discussion once before. I respect your efforts on behalf of fathers and children. I have agreed to disagree many times, but I will not allow your (or Cathy's or anyone else's) disagreement with my views keep me from voicing my views.

And you can hollar about "crap" until you are blue in the face, but it will not stop me from praying for you and your situation... praying for peace in your life... and yes, praying for your unbelieving soul. You are one of many here I pray for.

Now, you can leave my opinion on the table and walk away, or we can continue this debate and distract others on the board from the reason we come here.  So, Good Day!
A true soldier fights, not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves whats behind him...dear parents, please remember not to continue to fight because you hate your ex, but because you love your children.

Brent

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RE: Response
« Reply #25 on: Jan 26, 2005, 07:30:42 PM »
>Asking for no response was to avoid a debate.... one has
>started, 'nuff said?

I wasn't the one who objected to that, but I felt the same way. Posting a very religious, very controversial message like that and then telling people "not to respond" is a little unrealistic. Some would say it was a drive-by post, others might call it intolerant.



>And as far as can anyone heal, or just my particular brand, I
>believe any bozo could heal in the name Jesus Christ if they
>believe. If you can't believe, obviously you can't "go there"
>yourself.

Thanks; I prefer reality.



>And as far as hospitals relying exclusively on God, doctors
>tend to believe they ARE GOD, so since they would have to
>believe in something outside of themselves...it isn't going to
>happen any time soon.

This is a bogus answer and ain't gonna fly. Forget what you think doctors believe about themselves- that's open to debate and I know many doctors who would disagree with you. NONE of the doctors I know think of themselves as god. So, back to the question at hand:

If faith healing worked, every doctor in the world would be using it day and night. If it really worked, why aren't they using it? Why bother with convenbtional medicine at all if the power of faith healing is so great? I mean really- if prayer could cure disease, is there a doctor alive who wouldn't be using it, and using it all the time?



>but I will not allow your (or Cathy's or anyone else's)
>disagreement with my views keep me from voicing my views.

You can't have it both ways- if you get to voice your views, so do we. And telling people not to respond isn't allowing other people the same freedom to "voice their views" as you claim to have the right to do.  




>And you can hollar about "crap" until you are blue in the
>face, but it will not stop me from praying for you and your
>situation... praying for peace in your life... and yes,
>praying for your unbelieving soul. You are one of many here I
>pray for.

How you waste your time is entirely up to you.



>Now, you can leave my opinion on the table and walk away, or
>we can continue this debate and distract others on the board
>from the reason we come here.  

Like you, I feel like voicing my views. To remain silent would be doing a disservice to everyone here who doesn't share your views. SPARC isn't a faith-based organization, so when you write about your religious persuasion, expect other people to object.

cathy

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Debate - -
« Reply #26 on: Jan 26, 2005, 08:31:40 PM »
Sorry, but if you didn't want a response, you shouldn't have posted such an obviously controversial post.  

So far as my disagreement preventing you from voicing your views - - no where have I said you shouldn't be allowed to express your belief.  No where have I questioned your right to believe as you wish.  I just ask for the same in return.  I'm not sure why you would think you should be able to come here and express your religious views - and then try to prevent ME the same right to express MY views by asking me not to reply.

Your closing - "continue this debate and distract others on the board" - is rather self-serving, wouldn't you say?  You obviously knew you were throwing out a post that was bound to start a debate - and now that it has, you want to cry "foul"??

Again - be happy with your choices.  I am happy with mine.


olanna

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RE: Guys -- here's the answer
« Reply #27 on: Jan 27, 2005, 08:45:02 AM »
"I always find it AMAZING that "god" is credited for all of the good things that happen but none of the bad things. "

Hum...I see God getting credit for any and everything that happens, including the bad. If a child dies, he needed another angel. If a child is born with a handicap or health issue, God gave it to the parents to strengthen them...if we have a natural disaster, God was pissed. Hell, even some of the people I know blamed God being pissed for the numerous hurricanes that hit Florida. If someone dies, he/she was called to heaven.

I don't buy any of the above. It's all a load of crap..but I don't see God getting credit only for the good.

So really, God takes a bad rap, too.

 

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