advice, suggestions, etc???

[Troubledmom]

I have had a shared parenting agreement with my ex since 1996. Last year he obtained primary placement status (in Oct. 2003). Until the change I had the children every day from 7:30 am until 7:30 pm in addition to eow. Since the change I have just 3 days a week with the children.

The children are 13 and 9 years old. From Kindergarten to the end of the 2003 school our 13 yo was an honor roll student. Never bringing less than a B home on any report card. The 9 yo has struggled a bit more but still managed C's or better in all subjects.

At the end of last year both kids grades had dropped dramatically. The 13 yo (then 12) was carrying a 2.75 GPA. The 9 yo passed on to the next grade with mostly D's and 2 C's.

I just went to parent teacher confrences this week for both kids. The 13 yo has a 1.75 GPA this time around. The 9 yo did NOT pass a single subject, not even PE. 9 yo's teacher was able to verify the ONLY time the child has homework completed and turned on time is the day after her visitation with me.

All teachers involved are saying the children are not applying themselves, not giving the effort they should, and not completing homework.

A custody hearing is coming up in April. I know that this is important information that needs to be relayed to the Judge. I also know, because of information my Ex shared with someone else, he intends to state that the after school time I have with the children is interfering with the children's ability to complete their homework (It's my fault?).

FRUSTRATION!!!!!!!

I do not want to spend the entire 4 hours 2 days a week after school I have with the kids doing homework. I do spend at least 1 hour with them. I have a note from 9 yo's teacher stating homework has routinly been turned in on days after visitation but 13 yo's teachers refused to put anything in writing about when the child turns in homework.

MORE FRUSTRATION!!!!!!!!!

So any ideas? Any suggestions? Any advise? Frustration today is interfering with my ability to think clearly. HELP PLEASE!

TM

[Kitty C.]

I'd say that the 9 y.o. teacher's statement about the homework being completed ONLY after the child is with you would shoot down any argument he could have about your visitation hindering them.  Is it possible to get that teacher to testify, or at minimum make a statement to the court to that effect (understand that the teacher must be available for cross)?  JMO, but that could be an avenue to approach right now.

And I'd be asking the 13 y.o.'s teacher 'why' she/he won't put that in writing.  If you still get a refusal, go up the ladder until you're satisfied.  Which includes the school board, if need be.  That is information that is imperative.

[skye]

tell teachers to give you the assignment printouts for each student..they are on computer and state the date beside each all schools have this implemented noone has to state anything the facts speak for themselves..or better yet just drop by and ask principal to have them ready for you ..

[olanna]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are dealing with an age-old problem that doesn't correct itself. My youngest son lives with me, and I can tell you that gettting him to do homework, apply himself, etc...is a royal PITA.  He doesn't like to homework and the only thing that motivates him is knowing a) I am calling his Dad or b) he is going to have to go to summer school and miss the family vacation with me at the beach house this summer.

If my ex complained to a judge about the same thing you are talking about with gap, etc...it would appear that *I* am the parent that doesn't make an effort...not true. It's my son not making an effort and frankly, there has to be a place where children assume some responsibility for what they need to do..ie, homework. And in all reality, if the work isn't getting done at Dad's house, then your house is the next best place to make sure it gets done.

;)

[Troubledmom]

These are children who previously had GREAT grades, who got their homework done on time, who did NOT have 27 tardies and 22 absences in all the years combined let alone one school year.

But perhaps you are right and it is petty to think that the children should continue to perform at the levels they performed previously. And I suppose I should take the time I have the kids doing homework rather than expect Dad to be responsible the 80% time he has the kids and get it done.



TM

[Stepmom0418]

SS's teacher didnt want to testify in court but we served a supenea on her and she didnt have a choice. Teachers dont like to get involved in custody situations but we HAD to have her there and she totally understood why. After the supenea was served on her DH had little contact with the teacher. (maybe once a week.........teacher wouldnt answer emails and ect.) But since trial is over she has started communicating much better now. We are still waiting on a decision from the judge but things seem to be good with the teacher. I suggest a supenea even though at first it may cause a few waves, it gets better once its over and it sounds like you need the teachers testimony. Have the teacher also bring attendance and grade records for all relevent years.

[olanna]

Do you want advice or validation? Ok...for the validation part of it..yep, maybe you are onto something. Can you change your ex? Ummm....let me think about that...NOPE. You sure can't.  Are the kids walking to school or depending on Dad for a ride? If they are walking to school..they need to get up earlier. If Dad is taking them, they need to find another way to school to get them there on time. He isn't dependable.

And yep...you may very well be spending your every last minute with them helping them do their homework. You can't make your ex do anything.  Even in *in-tact* families, often times, you will find one parent VERY involved and the other a total no-load. Why in the world would you expect that suddenly all that would be different because *you* have an expectation?

Is it frustrating? Hell yes it is. Is it worth getting your shorts in a wad because the other parent is a no-load? I am guessing not. I am solution driven. I tend NOT to waste time when I see it isn't productive.

Best to you.

And by the way, don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything was petty...

Olanna

[olanna]

Perhaps Mom getting involved with the school system is a great idea. Supena's and court actions over this before Mom does the above is a bad idea.

[Stepmom0418]

>Perhaps Mom getting involved with the school system is a
>great idea. Supena's and court actions over this before Mom
>does the above is a bad idea.


It is MY understanding from the first post in this thread that mom is involved in the childrens schooling. In fact she was just at parent teacher confrences last week I believe.

As I said before a supenea would be an option to get the teachers testimony in the upcoming trial.

[Stepmom0418]

Olanna,

From what I can understand in the post is that dad is the CP. TM used to have a split custody and it worked well. The children are NOT dong their homework while at dads house (the CP)

Now I am both CP and NCSM ............It is hard to help children when you only get very little time with them. Yes you can help some but NOT to the extent that you can if you are CP. BOTH parents has the responsibility of making sure children do their homework while in their care! If the child is in dads care then dad needs to make sure that the kids are doing their home work and vice versa if they are at moms house.

School is a big issue as far as my opinion goes! If dad cant get the kids to school and cant get them to do homework there is a problem and a possiable change in custody situation should be looked at. Now maybe some people feel that kids can do ok without an education but I am NOT one of those people. I personally agree with TM and her plight to get the teachers testimony heard by the judge in the upcomming trial. I feel it would be an important factor in a custody decision.

[olanna]

I agree there should be some custody review. And I totally agree about the importance of an education for all children.

I was under the impression that she was trying to make her ex do something. Believe me...BTDT. You can't. But hey, if she already has a suit going for change of custody, (my bad...must have missed that), then by all means, bring in the evidence of how the kids aren't getting to school on time, enough and how the grades are lower since the kids have been with him.  These kids are old enough to voice and opinion to the judge, as well.  If they want to live with Mom, I am sure it will be taken into consideration. If they don't...well, you get the picture.

All I am saying here is that you can want someone to do the right thing...doesn't mean they will. Better that you spend your energy finding a solution than trying to change someone else's behavior.

;)

[olanna]

Remeber something..I am here as an NCP Mom. I have a son that lives 3000 miles away from me, has failed a grade...and is probably going to end up quitting school, because he is failing again.

I fought a long and hard battle...I ran out of money.  Courts really don't care about the children..they care about money.  They make money off of many things involved with court actions and lawsuits. Lawyers turn into judges....

I wish her all the best.

[Stepmom0418]

Just because you lost your battle doesnt mean that you have to discourage other posters. I am sorry that your case turned out that way but YOU are the only one who can change that. TM asked advise and it seems to me that you attacked her for wanting to help her children. Some courts/judges do make the right choices and correct decisions in regards to children and I will still say that I believe that TM has something valid that NEEDS to be heard by the judge during the upcomming trial.............Its not like she is taking this one issue to court......there is already a pending case.

[Stepmom0418]

>All I am saying here is that you can want someone to do the
>right thing...doesn't mean they will. Better that you spend
>your energy finding a solution than trying to change someone
>else's behavior.
>

I agree......You cant change someone else. BUT from what I gather dad needs to either shape up or give mom her custody rights back so these children get an education.

[olanna]

Discourage the posters? Hardly....reality check here.

And although I may have lost that battle...my son is coming back here to live with me. The courts didn't help with  this at all...it was an ability to pay my ex the money he wanted and get my son back. Had the courts really cared about my son, they would have NEVER sent him to live with his Dad is SC...

You don't know enough about me to assume I am projecting. I am sharing a reality here that MANY posters have already experienced. And again I will state, don't expect the courts to care enough to make a difference. The real difference in a child's life are the people parenting the child.

[Stepmom0418]

Olanna,

I am not here to argue with you. I believe that your post to TM was discouraging her from what she felt was important. This is my opinion. Maybe others seen your post diffrent than I did. I guess the one that could really say if she felt discouraged after reading your post would be TM.

Have you seen any of the posts here that were a sucess story?? I have and that is what keeps me going and I am sure that there are many others that feel the same way.

Just because your case didnt turn out the way you wanted doesnt mean the rest of us should throw in the towel and give up. I for one will fight for parents rights for the rest of my life!

Some cases work for the best and some do not. Yes the system is blind and really doesnt care but if WE AS PARENTS give up and dont fight for our rights ..............and in TM's case .............if she doesnt show the judge that CP dad isnt doing his "job" as Cp then she looses and without a fight.............Is that the way we should all work our cases?

I dont think so.

[CustodyIQ]

Hi,

I think you've gotten great advice on how to best document and lay out your case.  Education is one of the most important things during childhood, so I wouldn't let the naysayers convince you to avoid trying.

Someone made a suggestion to see if the records show homework assignment completions.

If there are such records, you wouldn't even NEED a teacher's testimony.  You can simply show the records as evidence, and demonstrate that homework completion was nearly 100% on mornings after they spent time with you, and far lower on other mornings.

I was once in court awaiting a hearing for my own custody case, and one of the preceding hearings was a mother who had lost custody to the father 10 months prior.  She had lost custody because father moved 50 miles away, and so the court had to decide which one of them should have the child during the week.  The court picked dad (I'm not sure why).

At issue in this hearing was that the kid (I forget exact age) was getting Ds and Fs.  In mother's care, the kid was getting Cs and Bs.

The judge was VERY concerned about the poor academic performance.  Grilled dad on why it was happening, what was he doing about it, etc.

The dad talked about how he tries to help with homework, how he's started looking into tutors, etc.  Tried to say that it was just a child getting settled into his new routine, etc.

The mother kept arguing that in her care, the boy had done much better in school.

The judge finally said, "Obviously, this arrangement isn't working.  I'm not sure why, but it's not working.  This wasn't a problem before he was living with dad during the week.  We need to change it."

Judge right then and there reversed custody back to mom.  Boom, done in less than 5 minutes.

True story.

Let that be your hope.  :)

[Stepmom0418]

The story you just told brought tears to my eyes.

DH and I are waiting for a decision from the judge on his custody case and our BIGGEST issue is that my SS doesnt go to school. Last year alone we know he missed 30 some days of school while in BM's care. This year at last count we know he was up to 13 days so far. There are many other issues as well but this one is the one that "broke the camels" back and is why DH took BM to court for physical placemement. We provided school records of the children that reside with us to prove that the children that live here do go to school. Anyways sorry for rambling! LOL!

We know now that the judge has made his decision but are currently waiting for DH's attorney to call and give us the news. We dont know what the decision was yet!

PS to those that have been following DH's case............I will post as soon as I know

[Troubledmom]

Thank-You every one who has responded. Even the naysayers have helped because I have a better idea how ex will try to say *I* need to spend more time doing homework with them and not focus on what he is or is not doing...

Evidence gathering today :-) and to the poster who suggest computer print out of assignments turned in... good call 3 out of 5 of 13 yo's teachers have them for me to pick up after school today.

And one teacher is providing a copy of the letter she sent home 4 weeks ago warning of the child's pending failure and encouraging Dad to assist with missing assignments so he wouldn't fail.

Seems Dad told this teacher and most likely the others that the children spend after schools with me and I do not assure their homework gets done. I offered the teacher I spoke to this morning our parenting plan and my time tracker. Amazing sudden 360 in attitude towards me.


TM

[olanna]

"Have you seen any of the posts here that were a sucess story?? "

If there were that many success stories, there wouldn't be over 1000 hits on this site a day, from desperate people looking for help.

There are some people that actually get the right things done by their kids...but most here, well, they don't. And that is what brings most of us here.  We are looking for ways to right the wrongs that have been done to us and our children. Occasionally, it happens. But mostly, we find that we are not alone in our quest and with that, we find comfort in knowing that others here really understand our plight and feelings...they know what we are going through.

I am only trying to point out that taking it to court is one way of attempting to right a wrong and get things done. But don't put all of your faith in the family court system. It's dangerous...and often times, a huge let down. For the one time it may actually have work, there are 99 times it didn't.

I wouldn't even begin to believe that a change in custody is going to happen because these kids are doing poorly in school if this is the first time it's been brought to court.  Dad is going to have an opportunity to tell his side and be heard by the judge.

And let's be realistic here. Most schools are VERY reluctant to get involved in custody disputes. While they may say things about the students performance, they are not too willing to say things about one parent or the other, unless, of course, abuse has been documented against the parent. But that isn't the case, from what TM has explained to us.

Again, I wish her all the best in this. I do know how frustrating it is to deal with a parent that is a no-load when it comes to parenting a child. I think she has quite a rough road ahead. I want to be encouraging but I'm telling ya, I just don't trust the family court system to be just or to care enough about kids to make me believe that the stress of going to court always means a good outcome.

I would take a different approach. I would ask the court for more time with me, so I could help get the kids up to speed in school. I would set the focal point as the children and their needs and how I could best help fill them from past performance. Maybe that is her strategy...

[olanna]

There aren't any naysayers here. Going to court is fine but you must remember...for every one person that has a success story, there are 99 that don't.

I am telling her, from experience, to proceed with guarded optimism and keep the focal point on the children...not proving what a slacker her ex is when it comes to parenting.

I have to ask you...do you have a personal success story in family court? Not something you heard from someone or overheard...but something you personally experienced? I, for one, would love to hear it. In the six years I have been on SPARC, I can count on one hand the number of court room successes from the posters on this board. And most of those successes only came after YEARS of battling and thousands of dollars spent.

I think getting the family court out of our families and learning to communicate with each other in an adult fashion is the best way for all.

I will let that be my hope. :)

[BlendedFamily]

>
>Someone made a suggestion to see if the records show homework
>assignment completions.
>
>If there are such records, you wouldn't even NEED a teacher's
>testimony.  You can simply show the records as evidence, and
>demonstrate that homework completion was nearly 100% on
>mornings after they spent time with you, and far lower on
>other mornings.

IMO.... that is not 100% correct with just getting the homework assignments.  Getting the homework assignements is a great start for documentation but the proof has to be there that the children actually stayed with Mom that evening.  Ducks in a row!

I am currently in a custody mod and alot of our case has to do with education.  I have one teacher (YDS) that is more then willing to testify (going to get that subponea anyways).  My ODD teacher wants nothing to do with it and will be subponea'd as well.

If any words of wisdom I can give to you about shared parenting, it's great when the parent's can communicate, but as soon as communication goes downhill so do tempers unfortunately.

Document everything and have documents and testimony to back up your documents.  Hope this helps!

[CustodyIQ]

Hi,

My responses below...

>There aren't any naysayers here. Going to court is fine but
>you must remember...for every one person that has a success
>story, there are 99 that don't.


Of the 99 that don't, how many are well-educated in child custody strategies, have competent lawyers if not effective self-representatives, and (most importantly) have not given up?


>I am telling her, from experience, to proceed with guarded
>optimism and keep the focal point on the children...not
>proving what a slacker her ex is when it comes to parenting.


Sometimes maintaining a focal point on the children requires demonstrating the alarming actions of the other parent.

A hesitancy to express concern when the other parent is short-changing the children as a responsible parent is truly no favor to the kids.


>I have to ask you...do you have a personal success story in
>family court? Not something you heard from someone or
>overheard...but something you personally experienced?

I view "success story" as any step of the way as we try to do what is best for our children or in protecting ourselves.  In highly conflicted co-parenting situations, the outcome is an on-going process until a child reaches 18.  So, I don't just view "outcome" as the determinant of ultimate success.

I defeated a false allegation made by my ex, with my arrest expunged.  I got a court order for my daughter to be returned local months after her mother unilaterally moved away with her.  I blocked a subsequent move-away attempt.  I've incrementally increased my custodial time with every passing year.  I've stayed the high road year after year and enjoy a deep trust and bond with my daughter in my home that her mother does not have with her (i.e., because the mother has chosen a different road and involves our daughter).  If interested, more about me is at http://www.custodyiq.com/about.html

Those "successes" certainly come with supposed "failures"....

Both mom and I were going for sole custody.  We got joint.

I wanted mom sanctioned for all the crap she continues to pull.  Sanctions have never happened, though she's been lectured.

It took 5 months to get court orders for my daughter to be returned when mom moved away.  Is it a failure that it took so long?  Perhaps.

Nothing happened to mom for calling 9-1-1 and falsely reporting me, resulting in my arrest and imprisonment for a short while.  Is it a failure that she didn't get punished when I defeated the charge?  Perhaps.

I've got a ton of "failures" in addition to successes.  Comes with the territory.

> I, for
>one, would love to hear it. In the six years I have been on
>SPARC, I can count on one hand the number of court room
>successes from the posters on this board. And most of those
>successes only came after YEARS of battling and thousands of
>dollars spent.

Perhaps you and I view "successes" as something different.  Every positive step is a success, in my eyes.

Yes, continuing on a successful path does require persistence.  Yes, the family law system does tend to drag over years in conflicted custody arrangements.  Sucks.  But that's the playing field, if we want "success."

The one quality that successful people share is never giving up.


>I think getting the family court out of our families and
>learning to communicate with each other in an adult fashion is
>the best way for all.


That's a great objective.  Unfortunately, some people are far too broken in their psychoemotional development to meet such a goal.  Many of those who are in family courts against our better judgment are there because the other parent is incapable of civil, mature, reasonable communication.

>I will let that be my hope. :)

Again, I think that's a beautiful goal.  I concurrently can have the perspective that some people don't have that option, due to the inability of the other parent to meet halfway.

[Stepmom0418]

I agree with your whole post!

I also would like to add that even when only gaining a little in family court it can go a mile in the future.

Some people may think of my DH's case as being a failure due to the fact that he did not get what he was asking for which was primary physical care

BUT DH and I think of it as a success due to the fact that DH gained more time and he also now has a DETAILED court order. What was important in our case was that we tried and that we have no intention of giving up. We will continue to take the high road, document, and exercise visitation as the co says. Sometimes it may take a few times in court to finally get the outcome you are looking for but the biggest thing is that a parent in this situation can not give up.

[CustodyIQ]

"You can't always get what you want, but if you try some time, you may find, you get what you need."

I read your post on the other board, and of course, any positive step is a success.  Congrats on that.

You didn't get what you WANT.  But you got some of what you needed.  :)

But you were certainly helped by the judge by clearing up details (i.e., reducing chaos and conflict) and by a judge who apparently agreed with you that the schooling was a problem.... and who essentially told mom to shape up.

If that fixes things, great.

If not, you know you'll go back to court, and perhaps you'll have another incremental "success" in the kids' best interest.  My attitude is, what other option is there?!

Of course, we'll all know if we're successful in 20 or 30 years when our children thank us for doing everything we could.

[olanna]

Doesn't take 20 or 30 years.....

;)

[YahYah]

We had gone from NCP household, with only having visitation every other weekend, to a shared %50 physical custody situation.  A lot of it was due to major issues between my ss and his mother.

During our %50 physical custody situation (every other week) we had the same exact issue with homework, school work, behaviors in the classrooms - and even so far as physical appearance, attendance, tardies, healthy lunch choices and snack choices.

During our weeks ss's homework was done after school every night. ALL of it.  He had a behavior report "blue book" that came home with him every evening, which was to be signed by parents, and notes could be added to address issues of that day, OR, if he was having a rough morning before school I would warn the teacher by writing it in the book.  Every night this book was supposed to be signed, that way the teacher knew that we cared and had concern for what was going on with ss during the day.  Also, homework sheets were sent home each night and parents were supposed to sign them so the teacher knew we were keeping tabs on student's work expectations.

When ss went to school from our home, his homework was always done.  He had studied for his spelling quizzes and he had done his 30 minutes of reading per night.   His behaviors were much better in the classroom, he had healthy snacks and lunches and he was dressed nicely for school, having showered and brushed his teeth before exiting the house.  All of his papers and school stuff was neat and orderly and his days really started out well - what he did with them from there was his own doing.  He didn't turn into an angel during our weeks, by any stretch, but he certainly improved enough for the teacher and school counselor to tell us there was definitely a remarkable difference in the child depending on which home he came to school from.

From his mother's home he missed much more school, he was late so many times we had to have the front office print out the "late" schedule - he had so many marks on the "late schedule" it was really a sight to see.  He did poorly in classes, didn't study for his tests, he was doing his homework during recess times EVERY SINGLE DAY because he wasn't doing it while at home.  His clothes were often too small or too tight, and he got picked on a lot. He didn't shower as often and would come to school with his hair all tussled.  He ate hot lunches but his mother wasnt paying for the lunches so she had a huge bill, which was actually sent to us twice before they realized it only pertained to his mother's weeks.  Ss's behaviors were atrocious during his mom's weeks, so much so the school was calling us because they knew little would be addressed by ss's mother.

At one point, ss's mother was being called every day by the nurse's office because ss was going to the nurse's office every day by 11:00 am complaining of belly-aches.  The nurse finally realized that it was due to hunger pains, because ss didn't have breakfast and didnt have snacks.  It came to a point where, instead of sitting her son down in the morning to eat breakfast to make sure he wasn't in pain in the day time, ss's mother told off the nurse, telling her to NOT call her about this matter again, if ss didn't eat breakfast he's going to have a stomach ache and that's the end of it.  He either eats, or he doesn't.  The kid was 8/9 years old.  I mean, c'mon.

So that went over well with the school. Not.

I feel your frustration, entirely.  It's very hard to watch a stepchild go through this stuff, I can't imagine what it's like to be a parent seeing your flesh and blood having issues that are detrimental to their lives.

My advice is to do what we did, and that's to document EVERYTHING.

I volunteered in my ss's classroom, for him, and for the teacher, because the teacher was having such a difficult time with ss during his mom's custodial weeks.  If ss knew I'd be inthe classroom during certain days, the teacher told me he was far more apt to behave.  

Pick up the slack where dad leaves off, if you can.  Volunteer if you can.  ( I was a stay-at-home stepmom, so it was easier for me to do that for ss)  

Have the children enter counseling at the school if you think it will help.  Outside of school if you have the authority to start that.  

We started counseling for ss outside of school and were very adamant that his mother also attend.  The counselor eventually realized what was going on and how detrimental the living environment was at ss's mom's house, and we ultimately got custody of ss.

You gotta do what you gotta do and right now, it's more like you have to work double-time to do what's right for your kids.

[Troubledmom]

Mediator states:

The decline in the children's school performance is concerning. There appears to be some bases to mothers claims that father is not adequetly assisting the children with homework. Attendance records provided to mediator show a decline in attendance since the children's change in physical custody. There is bases to mothers claim that father is not assisting the children in arriving to school in a timely manner.

Recommendation: Further research into the records of these children and the two children in my custody not involved in the case.

So I am gathering the kids past report cards, getting my oldest child's medical records to show his attendance problems were medical related (mind you that even though he missed a total of 92 days out of 360 instructional days he still maintained a 3.80 gpa), and other relevant documents to give the court.

Even if I lose the bid for substaintly more time, I hope that it is enough to move their father off his behind to help them more. Bottom line is they HAVE to have an education and they have tohave support getting that education.

TM

[wendl]

TM,
I hope it goes well, you and the kids are in our prayers.

**These are my opinions, they are not legal advice**