Just lost at this point

[vixtran]

Hello all, I don't know what I am looking for but just thought I would talk about my ongoing story. This is probably not going to make sense because of the time it is covering so please deal with me. I am not going to go into it all, I don't think there is enough space left on the site to even start.

It all started well over a year ago, my wife told me she wanted to leave me and take my son. We had 5 kids in the home, 2 mine ( girls ) 2 hers (boys) and 1 boy together. When she told me that I did my best, everything to get her to stay. 2 marriage counselors, she quit both. The first one after the 5 th session because he hinted I was doing everything right, the second after the second session when she said that even if I did what she wanted I was wrong and even if I didn't I was wrong. She didn't like that. Well lets go back, she had been sleeping on the couch for gosh at that time, about 3 years, romance, sex? forget it, maybe a couple times a year.

Why did I stay? well I did the divorce thing once, my first left me and the kids, and I believe in the vows of marriage. During these years, communication was nothing, all email. She wouldn't talking person if it pertained to the relationship or any confrontational topic. So as things got bad, a friend of mine mentioned keep all the email, so I have. I think I could write a book with it all.

So now here we are 2003 around jan-feb. I am reading marriage books, doing all kinds of things, letting her go out on the weekends ect ect. Meanwhile, I cook, clean, work fulltime ( 50 miles away ). Yes she worked also, most of the time at night. I took care of everything while she was gone. Yes, I do the yard, garden, house, kids.

Well anyways I leave work early one day ( she didn't know I was doing this ), I am sitting at a red light in town, I look over and she is in her car with another man!. Yes I jumped the gun, followed her until she turned off. Well to fill you in, she was supposed to be out shopping with her girl friend for the day. I approached her, ( she has a big happy smile ) and I was a bit irate, asked her if she was going home, stated I was very upset and I would see her there. She meets me at home, and walks in, its not what you think. We tangled for a few ( ohh for the record, I hardly yell, am not violent and don't hit people ). She ends up stating the he was Black and she would never date a black man ( ok, for the record again, I am not racist, some of my best friends are African American and I would do anything for them as they would me ). I ask her if she wants this to work, she says yes we go on. Now I have to say I am leaving out so much, due to the length of this dang thing.

Fast forward to march, she decides she is moving out to get her head straight, ( 2 houses away ) takes my son and hers. I don't want to hurt him ( he loves his mom and I love him ). Time passes, well she is sneaking out and this guy is coming over more and more. I catch her give her hard times, she give me the whole space lines and she needs to find herself ect ect.

So in may ( the day before our anniversary) we go to an attorney and set up divorce papers. She agrees she left and we would have joint custody 50/50 I give her a little to offset her cost 100-200 a month ( turns out I have been paying her vehicle since then ( march ) to the some of 300 a month. I keep the home, retirement ect ect. We agree to pay half each and be done with it ( when we have the money ).

So June comes, I start dating, shucks she has a BF. ( still not admitted though ).. ohh I forgot to mention I tailed her back in feb and used my GPS to see where she was going at night. When she said she was at work she was at some ones home, when she was going to work, she would pick up this guy and take him to the gym and go to work..even more, he was driving my vehicle! the miracle of technology. So I confront her about it ( about feb-march ) she tells me yup, I knew you would break down and prove yourself as not changed. I was doing that purposely to see if you had! my god.. well back to June.

I see this guy over there one night, my son is there ect. I have heard about her doing things but she always denied. Yeah I was still wanted her back.. please don't lecture, I know. well they were all drinking and my son there playing video games.. I just felt bad. I saw her kissing the man, hanging on her ect. So I get pretty angry, go to my house ( 2 houses away ) and call her and ask her to meet me out front. I meet her out there and I tell her I want that man to leave or my son to come to my house for the night. She denied it all I told her I saw it with my own 2 eyes. I ended up calling my son out and nicely asked him without anger if he told me about rob and his mom, he said yes ( told me about 2 weeks before ) I asked him other things he knew and she was boiling. I told her again, my son at my house or him gone. Well she goes in come out with the phone, calls the police. I am thinking GREAT! this is just what I need. She has drank an 18pk, and her BF is there now, a record. Well I go home and wait. They go to her house come to mine ( ohh I would like to add this is the first time in my life the police were called on me ) and ask me what is wrong, I explain. They tell me to stay away from her house. I ask about her being drunk, my son? they say she don't look intoxicated to me and call a lawyer, and don't go over there. So now, I am flat out just done. I gave up.

Well fast forward about  a month ( July ). I am on vacation ( the north east I live in Oklahoma now ) and she tells me she wants to talk. Well I have a GF now, so I told her, she thinks Amy ( my soon to be ex ) wants me back and she is ready for it. Well like a dumba** I would have. Well she doesn't say a thing and we go our way again. soon after I ask about the lawyer and her half. She states, I am not going to do it now, I want to keep a finger on you.. I was like huh! I was working with her so I could keep this whole agreement going and she pulls this crap. So now I don't know what to do, my son, I could have him if I take her back, family back.. I was so torn ( yes again don't lecture, I know ).. well obviously she wasn't going to let go.  So I was still torn, yes I was.
I had a thing with her for a month and then told her she hadn't changed and that I was going to be with my GF. ( short version )

So she gets another lawyer puts a restraining order on me, wants half of everything. So now I am on the defensive. My daughters told me she hit my oldest one over the years. Pulling her hair, throwing her in the tub.. enough to make my other daughter run and hide. I asked them why they never told me, they said they were scared.. so now, this twist in all this.

What can I do, it will look like some dad trying to get back at his ex who is trying to get custody of his son. Yesterday, she denied me to go into counseling with my son, the counseling center wont give me his records ( mind you there is no court order saying I cant be with my son ) and my attorney never returns my calls on what to do. This guy was recommended by the ex DA.. well that last months are the real short version of it.. and yes I have a years worth of email.. here are two from here recently.



******
December 6th

Jeff, all the things I was saying all I was hoping was for you to fight
for me and tell me that you wanted me so bad that you wouldn't give me a
divorce.  I never knew that it was going to go this far.  I was playing
games to have you prove to me how much you really did want me.  That is
why in September I tried so hard to prove to you how much I loved you.
There was so much I heard about you and realized if I wanted you I was
going to have to fight for you not you fight for me.  I really did not
think we were really going to be getting a divorce.  I thought you loved
me more then that but I was wrong.  It is all in the past now and I know
you are gone from my life.  It is going to take a long time for me to
accept this but one day I will I am sure.  I have no choice.  I look back
at all the e-mails that we wrote to each other in those weeks and sit and
cry every time I am alone.  I see how I should have tried fighting for
you a long time ago but didn't think you really cared.  I did some real
stupid things thinking you'd tell me you had enough of this crap and grab
me up and tell me how much you wanted me.  In September when you asked me
to have a drink or two with you I thought here is my chance.  But like
you said all of this is in the past and there is nothing we can do about
it.
****

December 17th

GO TO HE** JEFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not make no 180 in tips a night. SCREW YOU
ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If they considered me Mom they sure and
hell wouldn't be calling me Amy and and they sure and hell wouldn't be
saying how I ruined there Christmas. You can take the presents and
shove them up your ass. I will not accept anything for Casey and Cody
from none of you all. And let the girls know they see J.J. whenever he's
over there and I thought they loved me. Call me a damn lier, you all our
pretty good pro's at it, aren't you. DO NOT CONTACT ME AT ALL and only
by e-mail from now on and only if it has to do with visitation. Yes J.J.
has school Thursday. About being served ass***, I was not laughing nor
nothing, I was very concerned letting them know what was happening and
what to expect because you'd be in a very bad mood. I wasn't bragging I
was giving them heads up. So if that hurts them because I was trying to
let them know what was going to happen, ON THE DAY YOU GOT SERVED, then
too bad. I'm so sick of all of you and your messed up ways in trying to
make me out to be the bad person. Why don't you ask the girls how many
times they got drunk at your Dad's house this summer on wine? And the
movies they got to watch at your aunts house of Melissa stripping. Great
role there huh????? So all I have to say is GO TO HE** and leave Casey
and Cody and me out of your alls life. I don't want no part of it.
Edited for content

*****

Now mind you, this woman is the mom of all moms out of the home. If you found a person in children's school to say anything bad about her, I would pay you...

again short version.. more to come I am sure

[Brent]

Please break your post up into paragraphs so it's a bit more readable. A giant block of text is difficult to read, and most people will simply skip over it.

You can edit your post by viewing it and clicking the "Edit" link at the bottom of the text (it's on the right side).

Or, you can click this link (as long as you're logged in):

http://www.deltabravo.net/dc/dcboard.php?az=edit&forum=100&topic_id=789&mesg_id=789

[gipsy]

It seems to me that You have been undecided about what to do , You have went through attempts to reconcile etc , what she is saying is similar to many of our stories , My short version is , You need to make a decision , period , It sounds like you had at one time been able to talk about the divorce or separation , then you went back on the decision , divorce is a hard decision , BUT on the other hand reconciliation sounds very difficult . Due the fact that it did not work , My two cents You need to make a decision , Atty's certainly don't even want to hear this type of crap, And this could be a reason why Your atty won't call you back , They are there for LEGAL  reasons , they are not marriage counselors , Again My two cents , Make a decision.,, there are many options to atty action ,In wash state, there is a place called pierce county center for dispute resolution , This is more likely the type of place that will put into place a parenting plan that will be filed by the court IF she agrees , next you may apply for mediation, call the local court and ask about it , Also ask the court about a time at the court when atty's help pro se litigants , there is very little to this process , I have been through the conplete process , There really hasn't been much that My atty"s [fired two] ever did that I could not have done better , the value of pro se litigation is , you know your case , Go to the court and watch a couple trials . Or here at first you go to a commissioner , You need to take a look at the process in your area ,, Or you can go to a parrelegal and just get the proper papers filed, look at atty selection on this site spend more time reading atty selection than you do telling your story, this is crude and you may not like it , BUT the legal system doesnt care about the details , If you choose to divorce you need to SELECT an atty , I advise don't go get the biggest asswipe atty in town , Get an atty that will answer some legal questions about divorce , Like the splitting of marital assets , And a parenting plan , Ignore the rest If the atty won't just explain the basic process . go to the next atty , even if you gave that one 100$ interview fee , Pay attention to atty selection  on this site , you can highlite and or double click the words and this site has a cool feature that will take you there ,     attorney selection     click it now
   Again get it through you head at the beginning , As a man you start form zero ,she already has 1 point because she is a woman , the worst thing you could do is interfere or contact her or any one she is around , it doesn't matter now , if you choose to file for divorce . If this goes all the way to trial your best asset is the clean hands theory , Don't react to anything she does or say's period don't give up your rights to the children ,If you are now separated get a temporary Parenting plan filed ,  and while she is agreeable get a good one , it paid off for me I get a little more time with my son because I originally went before the commissioner and just said ,:" I want to see My son "  Her atty said " Blah Bla , , who do you think the commissioner smiled at , I got the extra time , Its not much but i Have every thursday and every other weekend ,I went though three attys untill is got one that had the same theory as me , no mud slinging , Guess what , she got the Big ass atty , At trial they asked for her atty fees 20K for one year , My case strung out for four years , She did not get atty fees , I would guess he got about 20 K per year , I fired the big ass atty and have spent 8K on the deal and guess what ? I probably got the same out come as if I would have spent 60k on the big ass atty , So narrow this down to the facts , Not all the agaonising details , the judge doesn't care , period the judge will settle the legal issue by the law , You neeed an atty that just will tell you what your legal standing is , Save the story for elswhere , Sorry to break the fact to you but unlees she beats or neglectsd the kids or leaves them with you , You will get a divorce decree a visitation schedule , And a bill , period , Believe me and My psycho's butt must be still puckered over the atty fees charged by that freak atty she had , there were dirty hate mail letters every week , I bet she ran up 10k in hate mail alone , and gues what , ? None of it made a  differnce to the judge , they really didn't even bring it up to the judge, God I hope My psycho is at least smart enough to realize what happened , HA f%en HAh , get a real atty and move on with life . If your atty isn't doing any thing and is just mostly sending a bill then get another atty , If he has filed for trial or court and you are just waiting then he probably isn't really telling you much Because trial isn't much , they just settle the legal issues , you should have discussed a parenting plan and a divorce decree by now , If not fire the bastard , this is a legal issue and who she's dating now and what she is doing isn't your buiseness.But if you atty hasn't filed for divorce or there isn't even a court date then fire the bastard !! And interview more than just three , Get an atty that talks to you like a human , And you get the feeling they won't inflame things , If they do a lot of nasty letter writing it won't make any difference at trial , You just get a bigger bill,and remmember women like this will take virtually any thing you do and turn it against you , So don't do any thing to her except take legal action to see your kids untill the trial date and show your self as a good parent , You are now mr perfect and don't forget that !!!!

[vixtran]

I have filed and we have already had a temporary hearing. I have to pay her attorney ( pretty convenient ). She has full temp custody, little did I know then Oklahoma had a statute stating if the other parent wanted joint custody only during the temporary hearing, the parent who wanted full would have to prove why it wouldn't work.

Well I am not a bad parent and she would have had a pretty dang hard time proving that. So now, I have to get her attorney fees paid to get to the next step real soon.

As for the next step, during the past months up to about 3 or 3 ago, I was questioning everything only because of my son. After I was back around her for that short month, there was no way I was taking her back, mind made up. However, like a fool, she was still nice to me and I expected to stick with our original deal with our first lawyer. I was wrong there.

Why should I even trust a woman who lied, cheated, and hit my girls? well didn't know about the hitting part until recently, the lied and cheated, well I like to believe, there is no harm in that.

I know she will turn everything against me, and I most likely will not come out on top. I figure 10% chance if I am lucky. But, I she is denying me my child at times ( she lives 2 houses away ) so there is no excuse. She tells me she is sick and BS excuses. She will have to explain why I cant see my son when she is sick and a 100 feet from me. She hit my children in the past. Can I file charges? doubt it, but it may just be a little bit to sway, never know. She will not let me participate in his medical treatment, not good for his well being. Do I have this, yup in her email telling me that.

Will the email do me any good? probably not. But, she cant to easily deny what she wrote if it is even talked about. I don't expect my lawyer to go into details because the judge don't want to hear that. But I figure every little tidbit may just be something we can use. Another I can never get in contact with my son. She turns off her phones ect ect. I know once the final court date goes by it will be next to impossible to change anything and I am not rich.

I don't have crazy expectations, I know what it takes to get custody. I went through a 3 year fight with her and her ex. He lost custody due to the fact he would not work with her. She has not learned from his mistake. As long as she keeps denying me access to his health and welfare, I stay level headed and I log everything, I think I have a chance more then 0.

My attorney doesn't always call back, but everyone claims he is one of the best. I can only hope that as we get ready to go to the resolution hearing that he shows his stuff. Does anyone have any suggestions for the hearing? anything to prepare for? to expect?

[gipsy]

Is the great atty you hired the one that got you stuck with her atty fees?  I,m not sorry for my brutal honesty , I went through three of them , I had a decent atty  starting out , I TOLD HIM!!!  to ask for my atty fees based on the fact that she's making the allegations , He had to he works for me , And he said to the commissioner , "they are both responcible for there actions "And the commissioner agreed , Again they asked for 20K in atty fees at trial , I TOLD  My new and good atty . we need the judge to get the picture of how we got to this point , They are asking for atty fees , He did what I said to do ,He showed the judge a little of how we got to this point of it being at trial , I saw what was going down at trial , they were trying to blame me , When you go to trial I garuntee she will have a number of stories , I would study your case file a little so you can think on your feet , But you don't have what I had I have 4 years of Guardian ad litem bull , Poly graph testing ,psych evals , Counselors , Domestic violence evaluations ,,One of the smartest things My atty does at trial is to point out what they are doing in a non threatening way , Like the psycho started the domestic violence allegations over me breaking up a dog fight at her house ,And chokeing a pitbull to get it to let go of the other dog , He made that clear to the judge ,


        SO ,,,,,, It really sounds like you guys don't have a history of bull shit , She hasn't made a bunch of allegations etc , And there is not a history of allegations and investigations etc , soooo don't think she s not going to try to lampoon you at trial , I would be prepared , But for the most part try to get her to settle , I respect My good atty and he said ," make an effort to settle before trial , that way at least you know you tried , Don't expect your atty to know every thing about you if you are self employed an he isn't bringing  your bookeeper to trial , FIRE him before you get ruined , I learned the hard way I had to bring my book keeper to trial ,I fired my first atty because he did not use my bookeeper and I got screwed , Its all common sense man, you can't just walk up toi the judge and say here's my self made financial statement , her atty will eaT THAT up period ,
]           As far as the resolution hearing , I don't know what that is ? Is that like mediation , or a real trial ? If you don't know schedule an appointement with your atty , Go talk to him , Yes they charge . But again and again , If he can't talk to you about the LEGAL ISSUES  and treat you like a human , then look for another atty ,  ,  Schedule an appoint ment , stand up to your atty and say I want you to talk to me about the legal issues pertaing to My case ,On the other hand there really isn't a lot of info about family law if your state is a community property state then basicall   what will she get  Is half of what you accomplished together , ther really isn't much to it , some atty's stir this up and make a lot of money the law is pretty clear you could tell your atty to make a settlement offer that is reasonable to the letter of the law , If she has a decent atty then you will settle , All the judge does is listen to your atty and her atty and decide based on the laws , . what could the parenting plan be ? Look up parenting plans on this site . Highlite and Double click     parenting plan     this site will take you to a place where there is parenting plans

[TX]

I won't get into the years of my battle, but I've often wondered, if it would of been played out differently what would the outcome be?

Let's say, somehow, someway, there WAS a way to reconcilate. You do, but this time, you use great strategy.  You use your mind, not your heart,  and set yourself back in the relationship completely to gain custody when the time is right. Is the possiblity of knowing  your outcome,  could you subject yourself to being a "fake" to eventually have better standing on obtaining custody?

I think, no, I KNOW he's right when he states the Judges could care less about anything but legalities (and staying awake for the next court case). The system is totally screwed when it comes to child custody, the attorney's are money hungry, and all who seem to suffer are the children. You DO have to be ready for a complete emotional, financial and devasting overhaul in a custody issue. Do you or anyone else think it might be worth the fee in acting lessons to try and get what you want by getting back in the relationship? Or am I way off in left field?

[Indigo Mom]

sounds to me like you're both playing stupid little "one up" games and not thinking of the child.

You both can say you're thinking about him all you want, but that's not what's happening.  Until you can "get over" her and she can "get over" you, there's going to be a young child on the shit end of the stick.

[vixtran]

OK, to answer somethings. the Resolution hearing. From what my attorney said it is where we will go and agree about the disputed issues. The ones that don't get agreed upon will go to trial. No we don't have no mudslinging going on at this time, but like mentioned above I am sure we will have some things brought out from her. She already mentions them.

Her issue is money and she talks about things I have done all the time since she left until now. She mentions remodeling my bathroom, well that is true. It is 50 sq ft and it cost me around 600-700 dollars over umm 4 or 5 months. So it is not like I had cash to whip that right out and I did all the work myself.. BTW it is still all not done. Besides that I have given her money, I have checks and receipts to prove it.

As for as getting back with her for the purpose of getting my son. I could have and may still could. But I could not do that to that to the kids. They would be so happy then it would kill them if I left. That would be a game that I don't think anyone should play, unless they thought their child was in so much danger he would be kidnapped or hospitalized. I don't think my child is in any of those situations.Now everyone I know tells me she is unstable, rash and inconsiderate of anything that doesn't work for her, but hey I knew that.

About Indigo Mom's comment. I am not playing games with my son. I let him know I care and I love him. HE told me when he got out of my car the other night I needed to pay his mom child support. The fact that he knows about that breaks my hart. He should not have to deal with adult issues with his issues already. I told him that me and his mom are taking care of that and he shouldn't worry everything was going to be ok. The fact to that is since December 6th I have given her 550.00. You don't know how bad I wanted to just start saying things like that. But then again he don't need to hear this stuff. He just need to know his mom and dad love him very much. When he comes to my house, I don't say anything bad, we don't talk about his other house unless he says something about it and he feels totally at peace here. That is a the way a child should feel with his parent/parents.

You may see that past that way and that all ended back in September, and no I still didn't involve my kids in it. I asked my 13 year old the other day if she had heard me say anything bad, or call my ex names, or anything to make them think I hate her and she said no. Her next comments were she is an evil bad woman. So you see even to my oldest children I don't talk bad about my ex. I am very careful about that. They need to make their own minds up and the ones who cant just need to know I love them.So you see, I am not playing a game with them, I am just trying to get through this like they are. Putting up with an evil woman whose only care is herself.

 I am going to look into the parenting plan and if I could today I would settle just so the kids and I could start leading a normal life. If I ha my way even after all she has done, it would be joint custody, she could be the primary, but I want him 3 days a week ( we live 2 houses apart ) The rest can be decided by state law, which dictates she gets 1/2 half of everything. But heck as for state law, we got married 3 weeks after her divorce was final and the state says 6 months or face penalties. Maybe we aren't even married lol.. who knows. But she can get her % of the things is supposed to get, some I will  fight against like gifts to me and some not. But if it was all fair, I would just end it. And no, not fair to me, but to everyone.

I have always just wanted to settle, but I cant pay for her car, child support and support my 2 girls. I can do child support for my son, and I would never let him go without, I have never and I wont. My dad left my brother and I a long time ago. s far as her and my daughters, I feel she abused them and I don't think they will be seeing her. On the other side, she has banished them from her life so that is not an issue. You see a woman that can remove children from her life that she has raised for almost 8 years can do that, her heart is in the wrong place. She operates with anger and I think we all know that is not a good way to guide your life.

Also, I must be a littel blind. I cant seem to find parenting agreements on this site? I looked in the leagl forms under Oklahoma and nothing.. Can anyone help?

[Indigo Mom]

-----About Indigo Mom's comment. I am not playing games with my son. -----

I never said this.  You and your ex are playing stupid childish games on each other, and yes, it comes down to the both of you hurting the child.  You may not see it, she may not see it, but it's happening.  Your child is in the middle of a nightmarish mess.  Think about that.  

-----I asked my 13 year old the other day if she had heard me say anything bad, or call my ex names, or anything to make them think I hate her and she said no. -----

But then again...what you wrote right here says it all.  You DO involve the children, even ones that aren't hers.  Stop asking the kids anything about the ex.  It's unfair that you put anything on these children.  Let 'em be kids, they shouldn't have to worry about daddys problems or daddys exes problems.  

keep your nose clean, focus on the child you two have together, and maybe things will work out for the little dude.

[vixtran]

the reason why I asked her was becuase she was talking with another adult about how mean her mom was. I asked her infront of that adult to show that I was not putting things into their head and to make sure I was not actually saying things that I was unaware of out of anger.

As for the childish games, I am sure I am guilty of a few. However, you only see part of the whole story.  I am/have been going on with my life and I constantly have to reassure my child about issues his mother involves him in. I dont bring them up and 99.9% of the time, I explain to him that they are adult problems, I love him and he should not worry about them. I tell im we both love him and we go about our day.

I know my child is hurtting, but I can not end this. I can only go on until her lawyer decides it is all done or she chooses to accept things the way they are. I am not incontrol of her or her attorney. She left, she left our kids and I dont want her back. They are the simple facts and they are not going to change.

I dont want to play games, I have asked her on more then one occasion to settle this straight down the middle and said lets let the judge decide. Until then, all I can do is keep the children happy and uninvloved as much as possible.