Lawyer letting BM take kids out of state despite court order keeping them here!

[KathyNY]

I am floored.  I sent our lawyer a fax this morning, asking if we move from our townhouse to a larger house w/ a fenced in yard and a play room for the kids, closer to family, will that help our case, or will it be considered a "disruption" to the children's lives that we should avoid during this time.  
In response, our lawyer called and told me that BM's lawyer confirmed their divorce is final (okay, good, finally), and that she's leaving after our court appearance tomorrow for Illinois, so she can get married!  And our lawyer agrees with hers that the kids should be there with her, so he's letting her take them, because she knows she has to bring them back for our weekend on the 18th (and her first court appearance v. the 10yo's dad on the 18th).  
I argued that we get a visit during the week, which we usually take on Wednesdays, so why can't she be back by then, but our lawyer says he's not going to push it.  If she doesn't come back on the 18th, we can go to IL w/ the court order and have her arrested.  Yeah, right.  Like the NY cops are going to go w/ us and chase her around Illinois?!  And we want the kids to witness this?!
So I call my FH and wake him up (he's working nights) and he agrees with the lawyer!  I can't believe it!  He said BM's not stupid enough to not come back.  I told him she was stupid enough to marry him! and hung up on him, which apparently got him to call the lawyer, but per the voicemail he left me afterward, their "decision" still stands.  Bulls#*t!
This is ridiculous!  We just fought like mad to get the court order, to keep the kids here, and now they're just going to hand them over?!  They think it'll be looked upon as some action of good faith- I think they look like idiots!  No judge would blame us for not trusting her!  
And wait, I'm sure she'll use it against us, that we let her take them once, that we didn't fight for that one visitation day, and the kids will be talking about nothing but the new place (they'll be there for 8 days!) so if they have another meeting with the law guardian I can only imagine all the new & exciting things they'll have to tell him about!
Ugh!  I can't stop crying and the stepmom online support group I belong to has been shut down all week, so this is my only release.  Please bear w/ me through this really long rant.  Thanks.

[notnew]

I know I have posted to you before on this and the other website to keep your distance in this matter.

I know you don't agree with the decision FH has made, but you MUST recognize that it is his decision to make, not yours. I know it is hard sometimes to stand by and be quiet when you think your FH is making a bad move, but you have to.

I also told you that I didn't think it was a good idea for you to have too much contact with the attorney and others involved in this case. I know you have good intentions, but your involvement (especially when you are so emotionally upset about things), will be looked at as intrusive and it will seem that YOU are driving your FH's actions and that he really doesn't want what he is trying to get. That means, your actions could help him lose his case or get less than he deserves. I know it is hard to look at it this way, but the courts have to be very clear about the line they draw here.

Look at it this way. IF the court denies the move away and she goes anyway, it will likely mean that the kids will end up moving in with you and FH in the near future. BM will have a regular visitation schedule and that means the kids will be traveling to her home to see her. This is just a visit. Not a permanent placement. I agree with the lawyer and your FH that this chance is giving her the opportunity to show if she is going to play by the rules or not. There are CLEAR laws regarding the uniform jurisdiction act and what happens when a parent unlawfully takes or keeps a child in another state. Your FH does have a legal avenue to pursue here. AND giving up the weekday visit so the kids can attend her wedding and visit over there shows that FH is willing to be flexible (all plusses with the court). They are giving her an inch and she will probably take a mile.

Besides,  you never know what may be ruled on in the hearing tomorrow. So, all of this ranting may be a moot point. I also urge you to think about what your FH is going through at this time too. If you think this is stressful for you, it is worse for him. He is dealing with attorneys, kids, ex wife, future wife who is being emotionally demanding and unable to be pleased, work, on and on. He cannot possibly do what he thinks is right for his kids while every move he makes is making you even angrier. And he cannot possibly do what is best for his relationship with you if every move he makes with his kids makes you angrier. Waking him up and disturbing his rest is even worse. If he is too tired and fails in his job duties during all of this, he may get fired and that is the last thing you guys need.

The court order says she cannot move away with the kids. It sounds to me like that is not what she is "saying" she is doing. You have to give her the rope to hang herself in this matter. I know it is frustrating, but it is the way it has to be. You getting angry and going off on everyone will only make matters worse.

This is not an area that you can be in control of. You need to divert your attention with something else so you don't think about this all the time. It is not healthy for you or the relationship you have with FH.

I am not trying to make you angry, just letting you know how we see it on the outside.

Good luck.

[KathyNY]

Well, I guess you told me then, didn't you?  So much for coming here for support and advice!  As much as I am trying to take what you're saying into consideration, you don't know me, or my FH.  I obviously know him better than you do, so it's not necessarily me pushing him to do what I want, and him ending up w/ a result he doesn't want- it's that he's not aggressive enough w/ BM and won't stand up to her because she threatens to keep the kids away from him.  So I try to be his backbone.  Even BM has admitted, to the both of us, that he has gotten stronger, even in his discipline with the kids (in a good way), since I came along.

You say my actions will be looked on as intrusive, and "could help him lose his case or get less than he deserves."  My actions have been as they are because he works in a steel mill and I work in an office so guess whose the one w/ access to the internet to do the research and can make the phone calls during the day?  If WE lose this case- it's not just him, I've been w/ these kids since they were 1 & 2 so I would be losing TOO!- it will not be because of MY actions- my FH has a voice of his own and has every right to speak for himself, and our lawyer is supposed to be doing his job and we're counting on the law to do what's best.  He'll get what he wants, not less than he deserves, because of me.  That's just ridiculous.

And, above all else, it was out of line for you to say that my FH is stressed because on top of all else he has to deal with a "future wife who is being emotionally demanding and unable to be pleased" and that "He cannot possibly do what he thinks is right for his kids while every move he makes is making you even angrier. And he cannot possibly do what is best for his relationship with you if every move he makes with his kids makes you angrier."  You don't know me.  I come here to vent my frustrations, and, yes, my anger.  So what if I said I was crying?  That does not mean that I am "emotionally demanding" and can never be pleased!  My postings have been vents for release- not a complete view of my entire life, so who are you to say that EVERY move my FH makes for the kids or for our relationship angers me?!

And you say you're not trying to make me angry, you're just giving advice?  Try wording things a bit differently then.  Try "I would suggest"  and "maybe" instead of "I told you before" and "you MUST."

Turn the situation around.  Do you only come here to give out "advice" or do you have issues too you'd like help with?  Do you want someone being rude to you, or kind?

Now I have to go home to my FH and my skids, who are over for their weekly visit, and hope that it is NOT the last time we see them for a very long time, in this wonderful mood I'm in.

[notnew]

Look, I have seen your posts on SMOMS and here. I am not trying to piss you off. I am trying to tell you how the court will probably look at it. Beileve me, I have been there and done that. I AM speaking from experience.

When speaking of the stressors your FH may be going through, I was only trying to present a side he may be experiencing and you may not be aware of.  I was only trying to help you to see something that you may not be able to right now. I certainly know that I have been told essentially the same thing by my spouse in similar situation and while it stung, I was happy to know it was time to pull back before the situation exploded.

I don't think you are necessarily "pushing" your FH to do what you want. I am sure you both are moving in the same direction. However, being the one who does all of the research and etc. (this is notnews wife talking) and my DH also works with steel so I can certainly identify with you on his workload and how how INVALUAUBLE your help is to him. Don't misunderstand me.  However, I have researched and found things that he could do and he chooses not to and I have to accept that. It is his child, not mine. It is a hard line to walk being a SM I know but I sure wouldn't not be where I am right now for anything in the world.


I should have said earlier and I will correct myself now. Your FH made a decision with his lawyer that YOU should have been informed of and the two of you should have discussed before he made the final call. You finding out from the lawyer was totally out of line. I apologize for not mentioning this earlier.

It is great that you have been a good influence on your FH to help him develop a stronger stance in his life with his EX and the kids. I have been there too. However, I realized at some point that DH did not have to agree with me on every point and being that it is his child, I needed to respect him enough to stand back and let him make decisions on his own and support them even if I didn't agree. I will certainly tell him that I don't think it will work the way he thinks, but I hope I'm wrong. There have been times when he was right and I was right and times when he was wrong and I was wrong.

I did not say it was out of line for you to cry or be emotional. However, this is a VERY stressful time for everyone involved. It is important to recognize the outside forces that will try very hard to cause friction between you and FH right now. In my personal life, I refuse to allow the "outside" world into our little bubble that contains our "core" relationship. Do we ever argue about this? Hell yeah! Do we let it push us to say hurtful things to one another in an effort to damage our feelings for one another? NO. Sometimes I have to bite my tongue in half, and I have not been perfect, I have slipped and so has he. BUT we both have apologized for our lapse in sanity. He is not your enemy and you are not his enemy.

You seem to have totally missed the point I made about the decision your FH has made on the advice of his lawyer. Letting her have the extra day is a very small issue. It shows that FH is willing to be flexible and when BM becomes inflexible (if she's not already), his act will be seen as being the better parent (best interest of the child scenario). I said that she "says" she is traveling to the other state to get married only, not to move and she intends on returning (I hope the lawyer has this in writing), therefore, if she fails to return, being that you and FH have an order stating she cannot move, she will have then violated it and that gives you grounds for custody. HOWEVER, you cannot say in advance she is going to do this. I hope you understand where I am coming from.

For those of us who care for children and especially the ones we love, it is hard to not ACT like a parent when they OBVIOUSLY need someone to. It is hard to keep in mind that the court is only interested in issues that are in the best interest of the child and that the emotional part has to be cut out.

I do have issues I need help with and I have posted numerous times on things I'm looking for help on. I suppose you haven't noticed becuase I have to delete my postings or not post at all because BM is on to this site so it's like airing my dirtly laundry for all to see. I have been involved in this for many years and been in and out of court over and over. I just hate to see other couples who are trying so hard to do the right things for the kids and it ends up tearing a great relationship to shreads if they don't get it together and get back on track with each other.

I am a blunt person. Sorry. I don't know any other way to be. You have every right to be angry if you want to over my response. You also have every right to decide I am an idiot and not pay the slightest bit of attention. Yes, I do give advice on this site because others and myself (including you) come here for it. You cannot possibly believe that you will hear the answers you want to every where you turn. I have had it happen to me many times, seeking out guidance from someone I trust and being shocked that they don't think exactly as I do. I have learned over the years to not let the knee jerk reaction set in and stop to think about what you have heard to see if it might actually make some sense. Sometimes is does and sometimes it doesn't.

I hope you don't go home this evening and have a terrible evening with your family. Believe me, we go to trial in two days for custody reversal and have SD for the week. We may not get custody of her and that means she goes back to the same crap on Sunday. I am feeling many of the same feelings you are right now. It may be helpful for you to develop ways to set some things aside for later, sort out the rest and know when it's time to simply let some things go.

good luck

[Kent]

From your post I am not sure what your lawyer and FH are agreeing to.

Do they let the kids go to IL to be present at the wedding, or are they letting her move with the kids?

If it's just for the wedding, then don't make a big deal out of it. People with longlasting divorce procedings are generally under a "do-not-bring-the-kids-out-of-state" order, but still they go on vacation out-of-state. Yeah, technically it's a violation of court order, but it's not a big deal.

If they are letting her MOVE the kids to IL pending the outcome of the case, then I think it weakens your case by allowing her.

On the other hand, now the kids will see how much/little fun a 3br apartment is. It will likely strengthen their desire to stay with you.

And don't mention moving to a different house. Your case is being built on not disrupting the children's trusted environment. ANY move is disruptive, even if you move 3 houses up the street.

Kent!

[KathyNY]

...for lashing out in anger and upset.  

I did sit back and re-read your response before I replied but I was still so hurt and upset with our lawyer that I took what you said the wrong way.  Before I wrote I checked the "notnew" profile and it said male so I was confused about your saying you replied to my posts before, on the other website- I assumed you'd meant SMOMS, cuz I went back and read thru my other posts here and didn't have any replies from "notnew" so that threw me off.  And with that site being down, I'm at a loss right now.  You ladies there have helped me tremendously through this- not just w/ the posts, but I've read other posts and tips and gotten great info from the site.

I know that the kids are his and the decisions made have to be his in the end.  He defers to me- a lot- so I do tend to just take the lead, but I am trying to get better at stepping back.  This situation has just been the hardest to do that with, because not only do I not want to lose them either, but I'm the one that will have to live with him (and his dad- don't get me started on the threats grandpa has made against BM should she win) if his kids are taken away.  

Anyway, last night wasn't wonderful- we went out to dinner for my niece's 4th bday and the kids sat at the other end of the table w/ the bday girl and I sat w/ my parents, as usually happens when the kids get together.  FH and I didn't talk much, but we did when he came home this morning from work.  I told the kids when they went home to their mom's that I hope they have fun this weekend, and I love them.

FH thought about the situation through the night, and is upset w/ the lawyer for not consulting with us first, too.  We BOTH agree that we would have sided with him anyway, and let them go w/ BM for the wedding, but we would've had the chance to get other specifics lined out.  First of all, we still don't know if this agreement is in writing, that they're going w/ her just to attend the wedding and will be back in one week.  Second, we would've made sure it was stipulated that she have the kids call their dad every day- neither lawyer brought that up.  The fact that we're being flexible didn't escape me, I just hope this situation will be portrayed in court in our favor as a gesture of good faith for letting them go and our giving up a visit for it, at the same time pointing out the fact that BM rushed through an engagment and got married less than one month later, the second the ink was dry on her divorce papers-rather than the situation being portrayed like we just gave up on the court order.  

I can only hope that the kids will be disappointed w/ their little apartment, and prefer their home here, but I know BM.  I know she's going to show them the waterpark near their house and every playground and fun thing to do by there, to get them excited.  And that's all they'll be thinking of when they come back.  

Now, our main concern is this- what if she doesn't come back?  There's no saying we'll be able to find her in Illinois.  Her family has money.  Her mom has family in Italy and her husband-to-be has family in Poland.  Whose to say they aren't flying out today out of the country?  Then what?  There's no way we'll find them then.  That scares the sh*# out of us.

[KathyNY]

We were told the kids are only going w/ BM to Illinois for 1 week, to be w/ her for her wedding, and will be returned to us for our visit on the 18th.  We have no idea if our lawyer got this in writing.  

No mention of us moving has been, or will be, made to BM or the courts.  I asked the lawyer ahead of time, before we make any decisions, to find out if it will help us to have more space for the kids (we don't have a fenced in yard or a play area for the kids) or if any move would be considered a disruption.  His response was that "there's a difference between a disruption and a disruption" and our moving wouldn't make any difference.  He asked if the kids each have their own room at our house now (yes) and said that's fine, then.  Since we have to break our lease to move right now, we'll probably stay where we're at, to avoid any "disruption" whether the lawyer feels it will be one or not.  If I didn't think it would be, I wouldn't've asked!

Thanks for looking out for us!

[kaylene99]

Hi KathyNY,

I must say I can relate and understand how you're feeling about this whole situation.  I've had my share of frustrations when we were going through the relocation case against ex wife.  Trust me, it's not easy at all but you just have to be strong and work with FH.  He needs your support now more than ever.  You guys are a team!!!

If this visit to IL is just for a week, then you must have a written document stating that.  I'm assuming your FH's lawyer and her lawyer have drawn something up so I suggest you guys secure a copy of that.  If she doesn't return the kids, then she's clearly in contempt of court.  Yeah, I understand that she could *disappear* with the kids altogether, but there are mandated interstate laws that could be enforced.  If she does that, then she pretty much kissed her custody good-bye.  I'm not sure if you can charge her with kidnapping and have a warrant of her arrest issued but just a thought.  There are ways to get the kids back especially since they will still be in this country.  In our case, ex wife wanted to move the kids OUT OF THE COUNTRY so there was no way in hell we were going to let her take them there even for a visit.  Ex wife actually tried the *vacation* route with the court but the judge denied it.  DUH!!  

BTW, I know this is just an interstate move case but you might want to check into putting a passport alert on your minor stepkids.  This means ex wife cannot get a passport for them without your FH's consent.  Just go to http://travel.state.gov and do a search on "passport alert" and you can read how to do that.

Well, take care and keep us posted.  Most of all, try not to get too stressed about this all.   Keep a positive outlook and teamwork with your FH!  :-)

[KathyNY]

THANK YOU!  I printed out the info. on the Passport Alert and I will give it to my FH before we go to court.  The request for the alert has to be submitted in writing and can either the parent or the court can be notified if a passport is issued so we can ask the lawyer if he's allowed 1) to ask if BM has already obtained passports for the children, 2) if the court can submit the request on our behalf, if that would get it processed quicker.  

Fingers crossed.  Thanks again!

[ocean]

What time is court today? Are they going on a honeymoon? Where will the kids be staying? Why is she getting married there and not here with her family? I think she is getting married so fast so it she can say "husbands" job moved.....instead of boyfriend....
GOOD LUCK!!!