visitation with no child support?

[Momfortwo]

I think it is a huge mistake for you to be the driving force behind arresting the other parent.  Moreover, you're using and manipulating the access to the child to effect an arrest. 

Uh, he's the driving force of why he's being arrested. 

And the child doesn't even have to be there when he gets arrested for his failure to comply with a court order.

[Momfortwo]

What I have decided to do is just to tell him that he is welcome to pick her up for visitation, but that I am calling the sheriff to enforce the outstanding warrant.  If he chooses not to come get her, then that is on him.  I won't deny visitation.  But I will clearly state my intentions.  He will avoid seeing her himself just to get out of this situation.  He won't man up and take care of the problem.  I'll be interested to see how long he'll be willing to let this go unresolved before he takes care of it just to see her.

Don't tell him anything.  He will just not show so that he isn't arrested for his actions.  Instead, make arrangements for the child to be somewhere else and notify the police of exactly where he will be.

Getting arrested and going to jail may be the wake up call that he needs to finally comply with the court order. 

Let him face the consequences of his actions. 

[Davy]

I was CLEAR.  This is a LE issue and the arrest can be effected at any time.
WHY wait until the 1st or 3rd weekend when the child might be most impacted.   Please justify for a change.

[Momfortwo]

I was CLEAR.  This is a LE issue and the arrest can be effected at any time.
WHY wait until the 1st or 3rd weekend when the child might be most impacted.   Please justify for a change.

No, you justify why it is okay for this person to avoid being arrested for his actions.   As for the arrest being done at anytime, kind of hard to do when he's HIDING. 

[Davy]

Absolutely not .. I was crystal CLEAR that this is a LE issue and the arrest can be effected at any time so the OP does not be the driving force to effect the arrest when he arrives to access his child.  In other words LEAVE THE CHILD OUT OF THIS adult issue.

In addition the perpetrator is not in HIDING.  OP clearly posted she didn't like the child going to the non payers' home. 

I am right and you are very wrong so prove up your words.

I'm a long time advocate for children to be supported by both parents in all ways and have coached others likewise.  Unfortunately my children only received support when I was the payer.  Please explain, in your infinite wisdom, why the other payer did not have to support the children.  The system would still be laughing if anyone even thought about criminalizing a "mom of three".

More to the point, there was a friend Big Joe ... another advocate of children like myself.  Joe's ex wanted to move his two children many states away and he was always denied visitation.  Joe always timely paid the full amount of child support. The problem, AS USUAL, the court never enforced the court order and worst the court would increase the child support amount "mom of two" was to receive each time a contempt motion was filed.  Eventually, this mom of two award for visitation denials went up $1600 per month and the first month Big Joe couldn't pay the full amount he was arrested and incarcaerated in debtors prison and mom of two relocated the children out of state.  Joe could only get out of jail when he started paying current and the arrears that were accumulating.
The jailers did not keep Joe's cell locked and he was able to roam and got other prisoners to flood the court with motions while 6 child advocates worked for Joe's prose' action in Federal Court.  Of course, Joe could not support his children since he was in jail so he had received a life term in jail. Joe was jailed for more than 6 months before he was ordered released by the Federal Ct.  Joe was to appear on the TV show 60 minutes but a female exec. canceled after he arrived.

I lost contact with Joe when I had to go out of state to retrieve my children.  Talked to Joe about 5 years ago.  His children were raised fatherless and he had not seen or heard from them for 23 years.

Can this mom of two please explain her desired system to Joe's children and my children.

[Momfortwo]

Absolutely not .. I was crystal CLEAR that this is a LE issue and the arrest can be effected at any time so the OP does not be the driving force to effect the arrest when he arrives to access his child.  In other words LEAVE THE CHILD OUT OF THIS adult issue.

You are absolutely right, this is a law enforcement issue.  Which is why it would be the right thing for a law abiding citizen to let law enforcement know where the person who is hiding (and he is hiding, even the court does not know his address) will be so that they execute an arrest warrent.

And it is better to have the person with the arrest warrent arrested at a time when he doesn't have the child with him.  Hence, having it done (with the child somewhere else) at a time you know the child won't be around.  The child isn't going to witness the arrest this way and is being left out of the adult issue.  Whereas, if the father gets arrested while he is with the child, the child is in the middle of it.  The father is a jerk for putting the child in that position.  Because the arrest warrent wouldn't have been issued if the father wasn't in contempt of court via his actions. 

One thing you aren't is an advocate for children. 

[gemini3]

I find I have to agree with Davy on this one.  It is a law enforcement issue, and they are more than capable of finding someone if they want to.  I don't buy the statement that he is hiding.  He shows up for visitation 2 times a month.  How hard is it to find someone when you know exactly when and where they are 4 times a month?  C'mon people.

I understand that the mom is upset, and her life would be easier if she had some extra money coming in, care of dad.  However... I would wager that a man who refuses to get/keep a job was doing the same thing when she decided to procreate with him.  I am thinking that this person paid all the bills then too.   Putting him in jail won't get her any more money.  It will just give her some personal satisfaction, to the detriment of the kids.

Work release programs aren't known for paying enough to cover child support obligations, especially when there are arrearages.

In my opinion, jails are for people who are a threat to society, and who will cause harm to other human beings unless they are behind bars.  Not paying your child support doesn't exacltly jive with that.  Not that I agree with him not supporting his kids - I think that you should.  But I don't think LE and jails should be tools for vindictive ex's either.

[Momfortwo]

I find I have to agree with Davy on this one.  It is a law enforcement issue, and they are more than capable of finding someone if they want to.  I don't buy the statement that he is hiding.  He shows up for visitation 2 times a month.  How hard is it to find someone when you know exactly when and where they are 4 times a month?  C'mon people.

Uh, what happens to the child if he gets pulled over for speeding and gets arrested? 


C'mon, get serious.  Arranging for the arrest to happen at a time when the child is somewhere else PROTECTS the child from being put in the above situation. 

The father is a vindictive jerk for doing what he is doing.  And should go to jail.  What he is doing is wrong.  And he's putting his child at risk because of his behavior.  The mother needs to do what she can to protect her child from being in a position that she is with the father (and I use this term loosely in this vindictive jerk's case) when he gets arrested because of his actions. 

[CuriousMom]

This father knows exactly what he's doing and as long as he's allowed to keep skirting the system he's going to.  I think if the arrest does happen it should not be anywhere around the presence of the child and with an outstanding warrant, he does stand the chance of getting caught while with his daughter.  Mom is owning up to her responsibilities of being a parent by making sure her daughter is cared for without the financial support of father - during these struggling economic times.  Why should father be allowed not to support his daughter financially and not own up to his responsibilities.  Father should swallow his pride, file for a modification if he can't find employment and own up to his responsibilites.

I'm dealing with my son's father who tries to push the limits of everything too while I do everything financially.  I don't complain, I don't deny visitation - but it's unfair and after while, hard to paste a smile on your face and pretend everything is great.

[gemini3]

Uh, what happens to the child if he gets pulled over for speeding and gets arrested? 


C'mon, get serious.  Arranging for the arrest to happen at a time when the child is somewhere else PROTECTS the child from being put in the above situation. 

The father is a vindictive jerk for doing what he is doing.  And should go to jail.  What he is doing is wrong.  And he's putting his child at risk because of his behavior.  The mother needs to do what she can to protect her child from being in a position that she is with the father (and I use this term loosely in this vindictive jerk's case) when he gets arrested because of his actions. 

Those are some strong words from someone who isn't involved in the situation.  What-if's don't amount to a hill of beans.  We could all make up hypothetical situations. 

There's nothing in any of the posts that give any indication that he's a bad father, or that the child needs protection from him.  In fact - he shows up every other week for his visitation.  If I had to put my money on something I would say that there are issues between the mother and father, not between the child and the father.