Limiting Visitation

[TXDad]

I have a 7 yr old son who lives a couple of states away from me.  The CP and I are in the process of putting together an updated parenting plan since the current one assumes that everyone involved lives in the same state.  Over the Thanksgiving holiday I travelled to see my son since it was my year with him.  The CP did not allow me even close to the full holiday which should have been Wed - Sun.  Instead I was allowed 2 hrs on Wed, 5 hrs on Thur and 7 hrs on Fri.  Although I know the parenting plan allows me more than that, there was not enough time to have it straightened out in court so I took what I could get so that I could see my son.  After the holiday, the CP claimed that the child began acting out when the visit was over and is using this as a reason to limit my time with him until he receives counseling.  My theory (and one I've seen supported informally on the internet) is that he was sad about having to say goodbye to me and at this time noone knows exactly when the next time we will see each other is (since we're ironing out a new plan and CP is only allowing me to see him on her terms at this time).  I support counseling, if the CP truly believes it is needed, and have offered to pay half so that the child can speak with someone that could be a neutral party in court, if needed.  She refused and will only take him to someone that she chooses, although I suspect she's not really even seeking treatment for him.  Although I have seen it multiple times during my research that it is normal for the child to act out, be sad or even angry after visitation ends the CP's lawyer keeps insisting that it is because of me and therefore, I should not be allowed full access to him at this time.  I would like to have concrete research that I can reference in court regarding a child's behavior at the end of parenting time (especially when one parent is long distance).  I know the CP is wrong for refusing me parenting time since there is no court order restricting my time with my son (and I am traveling to him for the time being, not asking him to come to TX) and I am waiting on a court date to have a judge reinforce my parenting time and look at my proposed parenting plan.  Does anyone have a source that I could use in court to support my argument that my son is simply upset about leaving me and that it is completely normal?  Any help would be appreciated.

[MixedBag]

I wanna go back to your experience over Thanksgiving weekend.

If you were able to pick him up on Wednesday -- how is it that the CP interfered and stuff?

If the order said that is your child's time with you -- WHY did you take the child back, go pick them up again, back etc....?

What kind of court action do you have going on right now?

I didn't even get to the counselling stuff --  I stopped reading and thought you should be filing a motion with the court and ask that CP be held in contempt for what they did over Thanksgiving -- however, you must have agreed because you kept taking the child back, doing a pick up, and returning, etc....  But try to get that weekend made up.

AND file a motion due to the distance and that a new parenting time plan needs to be put into place that considers the longer distance between the two parents.

Counselling?  First you should have joint custody.  Second since you are the NCP, not much you can do beside encourage the CP to take the child and then be totally involved in speaking to the counselor yourself on a regular basis.    It can be a really good thing for the child in the long run -- as long as you end up with a good neutral counselor.

[TXDad]

I believe she was interfering because she was not allowing me to have only those few hours with him instead of the entire 5 day stretch the parenting plan outlines.  She was insisting that I agree to those terms or I would not get to see him over Thanksgiving.  Yes, I could have agreed with her and then not returned him but that is just more drama for him to have to go through.  Last thing I wanted was to have her call the police and cause a big scene.  I would rather have him be more comfortable and handle it in court, away from little eyes and ears.

Right now I have a hearing (waiting to hear back from judge with either a court date or order for mediation) to establish a new parenting plan that takes into account the distance.  My lawyer will be bringing up the Thanksgiving holiday (we have e-mails showing that it was all or nothing in agreeing with her, I took what I could get so that I wasn't completely denied).  There is also another weekend that I was going to travel to see him (exercise one of my normal weekend visitations in the parenting plan) and the CP was only going to allow me one overnight.  Again, I could refuse to return him but don't want to put him through that. 

My question with the counseling was related to trying to find research that shows a child acting out is normal behavior after returning from parenting time.  The CP is using his behavior against me until he gets counseling but everything I have read shows that more frequent time with the NCP often helps this, not less time.  His behavior is her basis for limiting my parenting time during the weekend I mentioned above.  I'm not against him receiving counseling but I don't believe it's right for her to say I can't have him according to the parenting plan. 

[tigger]

Who moved away?  Is court going to be near you or her?

[TXDad]

I moved so court is in her jurisdiction.

[Kitty C.]

On the Thanksgiving thing (and for future reference), let me tell you how we handled it.

MANY years ago, when SS was only 4 and DH and I were engaged, DH was supposed to have SS on Christmas Day and 2 days after to 7 pm.  The prior weekend was DH's normal time, so when he dropped of SS, he confirmed with BM that he would be picking up SS at 10 on X-mas and bringing him back at 7 pm 3 days later....she agreed.

Something must have happened in the few days in between, because when we went to pick up SS on Xmas, she was adamant that DH return SS by 7 pm. THAT night or she would call law enforcement.  She didn't send SS with any clothes, either.  We were on our way to DH's family dinner, but DH was totally stressed out about having to take him back....so much so that we actually left the dinner early.  I was and still am in EMS and had previously dated a reserve deputy, so I knew most of the deputies on the force at that time (small rural county).  So I told DH that if he would let me help him, not only would SS NOT have to go back at 7 that night, but would be staying the full time DH is supposed to get him. 

Finally DH said yes, so I called county and asked the dispatcher to have the deputy on duty to call me (who just so happened to also be a good friend at the time).  When Mike called, I explained the situation to him, read him the CO word-for-word, then asked him what would happen if we were to keep SS, since BM said she would call LE.  Mike said 'Let her.....all I can tell her is to contact her atty. because it's a civil matter.'  Then I asked him if he would need to come to our home and he said no, there was absolutely no reason to.  So I told him that he would probably be called to her house some time this evening, because we were keeping SS for the CO'd time.

I kept my pager on scan and, sure enough, about 8 pm dispatch sent Mike to her house after receiving a call - 'complaintant has issues regarding custody and visitation'.  I heard when Mike arrived at her house and I heard him when he radioed dispatch with disposition of the call: 'Informed complantant to contact her atty.'  Right after that, I switched my pager off scan and DH said 'Wait a minute...isn't he coming here, too?'  I said no, the issue is closed for today.  All this time, SS had been playing with DS and had NO clue of the drama going on.

In the meantime, we had no clothes for SS, so first thing the next morning we went shopping.  DH kept SS until the 2nd day and took him back at exactly 7 pm that night.  Ever since then, BM has NOT messed with DH's holiday time.  BUT..........later that week, we did get a letter from some non-descript atty., stating that BM would be taking DH back to court over this, which sent DH into another tizzy, of course.  I calmly told DH that if he would let me help him, we could construct a letter that would stop the whole process.  In reading the letter, it was oh, so obvious that the atty. hadn't even read the order and only going on what BM had told him.  So in the letter, we quoted the CO and informed the atty that '...I would advise you to read the order, talk to your client, and confer with the judge who presided in this matter before you proceed.'  (The letter was done in first-person from DH.)  We never heard another word about the whole issue........ever.  Not even from BM.

As an aside, BM loved to send SS in second-hand clothes that were inappropriate for the season.  But when we picked SS up on Xmas, not only did his outfit match, his socks did, too!  We figured that she didn't know if we would be going to my family or DH's and she didn't want to look bad if were were going to mine.  I'm certain that if she knew positively that we were going to DH's, SS would have been in thin sweat pants and even thinner, grungy white t-shirt.  That's another story altogether!

TXDad, I'm telling you all this because, with a little concerted effort, the Thanksgiving issue could have possibly been resolved in your favor.  Keep in mind that if the BM ever threatens to call the cops, let her.  They won't deal with a civil matter.  In your case, I would have called local LE as soon as I left her home (after previously agreeing to bringing son back that day or remaining non-committal) and asked them how to handle this situation and letting them know that if the child is kept, BM WOULD be calling them.  Ask them how THEY would handle it and let them know that you want to keep the child out of the line of fire, if at all possible.  In cases like this, about the only way I would think that a cop would show up at your door is to just make sure the child is safe and sound...and giving him a sticker badge.  They call it a 'welfare check'.

She's expecting you to cave to her now.  The ONLY way we got BM to back off was to stand our ground instead of just capitulating to her demands.  When she realized that DH wouldn't be pushed around, she backed off.  Stand your ground, but if you think it's going to get into a screaming match, make sure your son is out of earshot.  If you're picking him up and she wants to make a scene, put your son in the car first.  If there's no getting around it, calmly tell her (and the calmer you are, the more emphasis it has) that you will discuss this later with her, and you are sure that she nor you want the child to hear it.  If she continues to make a scene, then walk away.  But play your cards close to your chest...don't give her anymore ammunition to work with then you have to.

I apologize for writing a 'novelette', but it always rubs me the wrong way when CP's act 'holier than thou' and try to throw their weight around by intimidation.  They try to make you think that their word is God and should be obeyed concerning the child....but once you have a CO, only the judge has the final say.  CP's don't have the authority to change the CO on a whim, so they need to be reminded (frequently sometimes) that if they have a problem with the current CO, they have to file for a modification, otherwise the current CO stands.

[MixedBag]

Where is that LIKE button?

[TXDad]

Thank you.  I had never even considered calling local LE first to see how they would handle it if she did call.  I will remember that between now and our hearing.  While I am in town for the hearing I was going to try and see my son.  This will come in handy when her lawyer contacts mine saying that I can only see him on X day and X time(s).  I just don't understand how some people think.  My wife has a great relationship with her ex-husband.  They sit together at all the kids' activities, have birthday parties together and don't even refer to their parenting plan for anything.  It's always talked about and easily agreed on who has the kids and when.  Why can't all parents do what is best for their kids with so little fuss???

[Kitty C.]

Because she has an axe to grind with you.  Your situation sounds very familiar to DH's....whereas the BM was SO po'd and 'hurt' by DH that she wanted DH to hurt as much or worse than she did.  And the only convenient 'weapon' to do that with is the child.

I don't know if this would be opening up a whole new can of worms, but have you ever asked her why she's able to be so amicable with her first ex, but can't seem to do the same with you....especially for the sake of the child?

[ocean]

If you can, plan on coming to her town for the hearing that day, and then staying after. You can then maybe address the time in court that day and ask for the child at 5pm that day until the day you leave, and you will take child to school.