Affair Partner Overnights and Vacations

[MYSONSDAD]

I am in the State of Illinois. In my State Statues, Cohabitation is referenced several times. Wording in such a way, it could be added to a parenting plan. Immoral Behavior is also one of the factors for child custody. But what constitutes Immoral behavior? Could be taken several ways. Depends a lot on the Judge.

This, of course, is not one of the main battles to keep at the forefront, but if they are in the statues, could be blended into a secondary issue. A mention in court?

I suggest, read your state statues and learn them well. Education is the key and States vary.

I feel, it is personal preference. My GF does not spend the night on my parenting time, but that is just me...

Vacations together would be a concern if all were sharing the same room.


"Children learn what they live"

[Troubledmom]

State statute will play a HUGE roll in the courts granting or denying a "moral" clause.

Additionally there comes into play here Constitional Rights. A parent who has been denied the companionship of another person based soley on their marital status... could be interesting to see what the courts would decide there...

TM

[HeavenSent]

It's funny when someone wants to stand on a big tall moral soap box that only applies to new relationsips the X might have.  No one ever says they want a clause stating that X can't gamble in front of the kids, or use foul language, or lie cheat and steal.  Why not ask that the X not be allowed to watch Sex in the City while the little ones are at home...that is much more of an education that watching Dad / Mom retire to the bedroom with BF / GF and close the door!

And to hit where it hurts...how can any of us preach traditional morals while the very core value of it all should be Mom & Dad together forever raising the kids in love, respect, and cooperation.  Sorry, but you already blew it!  (I did too.)    

When the most fundamental foundation is destroyed, you have to expect EVERYTHING else to change also.  You no longer have any right to influence what the other parent does.  You simply have no say-so. Period.  The only way to have any influence at all is to cooperate.  And that calls for some major sucking-up and a lot of hurt pride.  Most people don't have what it takes for that.

For example, Cat, your kids babysitting for X's GF is causing them to hold grudges against GF & Dad, and you don't like it because they should be spending time with either your or Dad.  How about you offering to babysit GF's kids next time?  I can almost hear the laughs! but  You would be helping your children, which should be the foremost concern.

Another thing. Kids create thier opinions based largely on us.  Why not say only positive things about GF and Dad.  Perhaps thier attitude would turn a lot more positive as well.  Again, you would be helping your children have a happier life.  But can you put your own hurt feelings and pride aside for the sake of the children?  Most people cannot.  

Just my opionions.
HeavenSent

---When you find yourself the victim of other's bitterness, ignorance, smallness, or insecurities; remember, things could be worse...you could be them---

[Stepmom0418]

Your post is very well said!!

The funny thing is that I have watched my exhusbands girlfriends kids for them.........so some people can put their pride and hurt aside and do what is best for their children. And then there are many others who cant.

I totally agree with your post!

Especially :Another thing. Kids create thier opinions based largely on us. Why not say only positive things about GF and Dad. Perhaps thier attitude would turn a lot more positive as well. Again, you would be helping your children have a happier life. But can you put your own hurt feelings and pride aside for the sake of the children? Most people cannot.

[Catwoman]

I still find it amazing that you can divine my intent, my background and everything from just a simple post posing a question.

You even know I am obsessing.  I am impressed.


The facts are this, my friend:  my children do not need to be exposed to OVERNIGHT, unmarried guests of the opposite sex in their home.  Period.   Just as they don't need to be exposed to heavy drinking, recreational drugs or other things deemed morally or physically harmful.

Should either of us remarry, that is a legitimate relationship.  Until that time, I feel strongly that the parents should set a positive example and abstain from having overnight guests while the children are present.

[Brent]

>I still find it amazing that you can divine my intent, my
>background and everything from just a simple post posing a
>question.

Well, what can I say- I'm an amazing guy.



>You even know I am obsessing.  I am impressed.

That's nice to hear.



>The facts are this, my friend:  my children do not need to be
>exposed to OVERNIGHT, unmarried guests of the opposite sex in
>their home.  Period.  

Why not? You make this claim, but offer absolutely nothing on which to base it. Why is it so bad for children to see a parent having a normal, healthy relationship with a member of the opposite sex? Exactly how does this harm a child? Be specific.



Just as they don't need to be exposed
>to heavy drinking, recreational drugs or other things deemed
>morally or physically harmful.

Yes, but having a relationship isn't morally or physically harmful- it's part of everyday life for normal people. That's what people do.




>Should either of us remarry, that is a legitimate
>relationship.  Until that time, I feel strongly that the
>parents should set a positive example and abstain from having
>overnight guests while the children are present.

What's not "positive" about a parent having a relationship with another person? How are the children harmed by this??

The thing is, you ARE obsessed with what your ex is doing and who he's going to bed with. You're taking this bogus "moral high ground" and it's as phony as a $9 bill.

So.....tell us --exactly-- what is so harmful to the children? The fact that they're seeing dad getting on with his life? The fact that they're seeing dad having a good, healthy relationship? Enlighten us.

[Catwoman]

Brent:

It is well documented that female children (we have two girls) tend to get involved in premarital sex and/or abusive relationships faster and earlier when they come from homes where the male parent has left (as in this case).

That being said, I feel BOTH parents must do all they can to maintain a loving environment where premarital or extramarital sex is NOT a factor (i.e. no overnights with the opposite sex).

Our daughters' therapist has been an advocate of this becuse both girls are tring to heal from the trauma of betrayal and abandonment.  Both daughters have been cutting as a result of their father's running off with another woman.  I feel we must offer them the most stable, yet separate, environments we can.   The continual presence of another person at this point truly hurts them.  

They are at a vulnerable age with regards to understanding what a sexual relationship is.   Stressing that they should avoid sex at this age, and then illustrating that the parents can do what they please in this area is akin to telling them not to drink and drive, then tying one on and getting behind the wheel.

Please note that in my state, there is the option of restricting all access of our daughters to the other woman.  I did not choose this path; I only wish to restrict overnight visits when they are present.  And I will (and have been) abide by this myself.  

[VAStepmom]

Catwoman,

I have followed this post from the beginning and I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you as well.  You say there is documentation that female children tend to get involved in premarital sex and/or abusive relationships when their father has left, like your ex did.  I believe these cases are referring to girls that come from fatherless homes, not cases like your girls that still have their father.  He is still an active parent in thier lives, so they do not necessarily fall into this high-threat category of girls because of that.

I do understand your concern.  In fact, if it were me, I'd probably be doing the same thing as you.  However, that does not make it right.  You have convinced yourself that this situation is much worse than it really is.  I could understand if dad had a new "friend" over every other night.  But from the sound of your post, he is in a monogomous relationship with this woman.  She may very well become the girls stepmom one day.  You just don't know...

That said, I say pick your battles.  You seem to be getting defensive in your posts lately.  Remember why you came to this site in the first place... to get opinions from "uninterested third-parties."  And I only mean uninterested in the sense we are not personally involved in your case.  Everyone here wants to help, but we can only do that if we give our honest opinions.  It's up to you to open your mind...

Good luck you you!

[Brent]

>It is well documented that female children (we have two girls)
>tend to get involved in premarital sex and/or abusive
>relationships faster and earlier when they come from homes
>where the male parent has left (as in this case).

No, that supposed factoid is not well documented at all. As VA Stepmom said below, this appears statistically in girls where the father is absent, which is not the case here. If the father is present and allowed to take part in parenting the children (whether he is in the same home or not) this issue almost disappears.

So, please go back and re-examine the information you found. If it does indeed state what you claim, please post the link as I suspect a fair number of people would like to have a look at it.




>That being said, I feel BOTH parents must do all they can to
>maintain a loving environment where premarital or extramarital
>sex is NOT a factor (i.e. no overnights with the opposite
>sex).

Why? You keep stating this, but you won't (or can't) say *WHY* this is bad for the children. I've asked you this several times and gotten nothing in the way of a defendable answer.



>
>Our daughters' therapist has been an advocate of this becuse
>both girls are tring to heal from the trauma of betrayal and
>abandonment.  Both daughters have been cutting as a result of
>their father's running off with another woman.  I feel we must
>offer them the most stable, yet separate, environments we can.
>  The continual presence of another person at this point truly
>hurts them.  

This sounds like a load of self-serving hogwash. By this reasoning, they shouldn't be allowed to be around *anyone* other than you or him, because of the "trauma".  



>
>They are at a vulnerable age with regards to understanding
>what a sexual relationship is.   Stressing that they should
>avoid sex at this age, and then illustrating that the parents
>can do what they please in this area is akin to telling them
>not to drink and drive, then tying one on and getting behind
>the wheel.

More baloney. Your ex isn't telling them to have sex, he's simply moving on with his life and you're desperately trying to come up with some reason that will allow you to dictate how some key parts of his life are going to be run. These children don't live in a vacuum, and your self-serving attempt at "shielding" them from normal human relationships is ridiculous.

You said "Stressing that they should avoid sex at this age, and then illustrating that the parents can do..."

The fact is that children don't get all the rights and responsibilities that an adult does, so what an adult does may be inappropriate for a child but not for an adult.




>Please note that in my state, there is the option of
>restricting all access of our daughters to the other woman.  I
>did not choose this path; I only wish to restrict overnight
>visits when they are present.  And I will (and have been)
>abide by this myself.  

If you get an agreement like that written into your decree, it will only prove that you're an overly-controlling ex-spouse. And good luck getting it enforced- I got news for you- what's written in the decree means very, very little in the real world. Ask anyone here if you don't believe me, or ask an attorney- they'll tell you that getting "crap provisions" like this enforced are next to impossible.

Another thing it will do is ensure that you and your ex NEVER get along, and that you will fight constantly until these kids are 21. That sounds exactly like what you want, so enjoy the next 10 or 20 years, and don't say nobody told you.

[gipsy]

I was a card carrying member of the the Saintly brother hood then I became a guru , I found that once a Real guru . Its very difficult to Be around average people , I then Became a bit self rightious , So the Card carrying Saintly Guru's came by to tell me that I too had fell short of the glory , And By all means this was no  infraction Agianst My Membership staus , I certainly went by all the rules , Except one and that was Judgment , and self righteous , There certainly was no Infractions iether Of me or My  EX partner , Since we claimed our selves to  Members of the society of the righteous  Community , That Is except for the Occasional philander or three , Then there was the Pre marital and gratuitios Sex that Only card carrying Members can excuse themselves for , But then there is a time for the WIPING , Of the slate and all things are forgot , And Only righteous thoughts prevail ,  With not even the slightest memories  Of the blossoming of our Hormonal growth ,
    There was a great Man , That said
     "  Let he who has not sinned throw the first stone "
          So Of every one involved In this lenghty Debate , I ask who has not yet sinned , Any one a bonafide Virgin ?
   Then about supposing things about kids or teen agers . HAH ! Yeah right ! Kids develope an attitude At or aroung the teenage years , And let me tell you I have been through . this , I showed My stepdaughters diary to My atty ,  It had stuff written about suicied , And Hating her parents etc , My atty said This is sort of normal for Young teen agers