Is ex denying visitation?

[awakenlynn]

Reading through everyone's answer, the options are

1. nonstop with ex doing the driving
2. layover
3. ask ex to pay the difference and we will do the extra driving.

We have asked, begged, pleaded, sent letters, emails and called her.  She states we are responsible for the transportation, she will not pay a penny AND she will only put daughter on the flight if it is out of the city she picks and non-stop.

We are going to send a formal letter out with our attorney, stating our position.  In the meantime, we still need to buy a ticket: $640 for lay-over, or $425 non-stop(ex drives).

She will not discuss it or mediate it.  Non of the 3 options are 'convenitent' for her, therefore she will not do them.  (her words, not mine).

As to the court order, it only states who is responsible for the cost of which visit.  Nothing about airports.  The judge did not realize that this would be an issue.  While he made some statements in our favor, they did not make it to the final court order.  Also, we are having to file the court order in a different jurisdiction.

We know that the contempt is impossible with the vagueness of the order, so the question is really "Who is denying the visit?  Ex because of her demands, or us for not giving in to her demands?"

When we file the foreign order, we will also be filing a clarification, so that way TX law does not come into play(in theory-we know).  Even then the only thing we would be fighting there is not allowing a reduction in the summer visit from 8weeks to  6weeks as we only get SD 3 times a year and ex refuses all other visits when she is in the area(family still lives here)  There is nothing of substantial change that would require TX to make any changes to the court order.

We will want to clarify the transporation,
the medical insurance(asking that if ex refuses to allow us to use her insurance-as stipulated, then she must help pay the co-pay when our insurance must be used)
and the phone calls(ex states that SD is responsible enough for a cell phone, but does not keep it charged, "loses" it and doesn't take it with her when she goes out.) Ex  refuses to answer the phone on her cell phone when it is us calling.  If she deems the message worthy, she will return the call(calling SD is not good enough)  She also refuses to tell SD that hubby calls(I know we can't prove that one).

So we are sending ex a certified letter spelling out her choices and will send a copy to the attorney.  Any response along with all the emails over the years will go to him too.  That way we are ready.

Thanks,
Lynn

[notnew]

That if the order does not say anything about the lay-overs, non-stop flights, etc., then they don't apply. Your cooperation with something that she is demanding that is clearly an undue financial burden on  you and hardship is creating an established pattern that you are willing to do. Is that what you want?

If the order doesn't spell out any rules, then there are NONE. It does create a difficult situation. The Order needs to be clarified ASAP. I believe making arrangements without the added costs, sending her aletter informing of such and also that a motion for clarification is in process with the courts (make sure you submit motion stating exactly what you want with a revised order attached for the court's signature) that way you have a better chance of getting what you want instead of the court giving in to a silly comprimise battle.

YOu also need phone contact stipulated (days of the week between xxx time and xxx time). AND insurance orders must be complied with or file contempt. Period. When she knows you aren't playing any games and you know the rules and how they work, she will comply or dig her grave (not literally) in the court's eyes.

Being a hard ass on this and getting the wording in the order that gives you more power to be a hard ass and make it stick is the only way to go here.

good luck

[mistoffolees]

>Reading through everyone's answer, the options are
>
>1. nonstop with ex doing the driving
>2. layover
>3. ask ex to pay the difference and we will do the extra
>driving.
>
>We have asked, begged, pleaded, sent letters, emails and
>called her.  She states we are responsible for the
>transportation, she will not pay a penny AND she will only put
>daughter on the flight if it is out of the city she picks and
>non-stop.
>
>We are going to send a formal letter out with our attorney,
>stating our position.  In the meantime, we still need to buy a
>ticket: $640 for lay-over, or $425 non-stop(ex drives).
>
>She will not discuss it or mediate it.  Non of the 3 options
>are 'convenitent' for her, therefore she will not do them.
>(her words, not mine).
>
>As to the court order, it only states who is responsible for
>the cost of which visit.  Nothing about airports.  The judge
>did not realize that this would be an issue.  While he made
>some statements in our favor, they did not make it to the
>final court order.  Also, we are having to file the court
>order in a different jurisdiction.
>
>We know that the contempt is impossible with the vagueness of
>the order, so the question is really "Who is denying the
>visit?  Ex because of her demands, or us for not giving in to
>her demands?"
>
>When we file the foreign order, we will also be filing a
>clarification, so that way TX law does not come into play(in
>theory-we know).  Even then the only thing we would be
>fighting there is not allowing a reduction in the summer visit
>from 8weeks to  6weeks as we only get SD 3 times a year and ex
>refuses all other visits when she is in the area(family still
>lives here)  There is nothing of substantial change that would
>require TX to make any changes to the court order.
>
>We will want to clarify the transporation,
>the medical insurance(asking that if ex refuses to allow us to
>use her insurance-as stipulated, then she must help pay the
>co-pay when our insurance must be used)
>and the phone calls(ex states that SD is responsible enough
>for a cell phone, but does not keep it charged, "loses" it and
>doesn't take it with her when she goes out.) Ex  refuses to
>answer the phone on her cell phone when it is us calling.  If
>she deems the message worthy, she will return the call(calling
>SD is not good enough)  She also refuses to tell SD that hubby
>calls(I know we can't prove that one).
>
>So we are sending ex a certified letter spelling out her
>choices and will send a copy to the attorney.  Any response
>along with all the emails over the years will go to him too.
>That way we are ready.
>
>Thanks,
>Lynn

If she's not willing to discuss it, I would arrange for the ticket with the plane change and say "here's the flight schedule".

The court order does not mandate that you do what's 'convenient' for her. If she refuses to put the daughter on the flight, have your attorney file an immediate emergency hearing to cite her for contempt of court. Frankly, I'd be willing to bet that when it comes down to it, she'll go along.

[awakenlynn]

We do not want to establish a pattern where ex always gets what she wanted.  We asked for a stipulation stating that both parties would have SD fly non-stop until age 13.  Ex refused, and our attorney at the time said we should follow the stipulation in good faith.  Now I just have to find a copy of it.

We are putting our foot down as this is the first flight since she turned 13.  We are going to write up a letter using the visitation letter in SPARC with adjustments for the transportation issues.

We are going to cc our attorney(which we will be hiring in about 2 weeks) and send him everything else that we have.  With everything else we are sending to the attorney is going to be a petition to clarify the order.  It will specifically state no flights earlier than 7am, and that each party gets to designate the airport at their own end and it will be non-negotiable for the other party.  If that determines it will be a lay-over flight, so be it.

We have phone contact spelled out, that says hubby can call with a minimum of twice a week, once being Weds. between 7-8pm CDT.  Ex rarely ever has SD available, but it has always been ok to call whenever.  Ex just refuses to have a reliable phone.  We do not beleive the SD's cell phone counts.  Ex refuses to make sure SD keeps it charged or avail.  SD also said at Christmas, her cell phone disappeared.  Mom has emailed that her phone is not allowed to contact SD.  She screens her calls and does not tell SD that her dad called.  My husband calls both phones.

As to medical, it got complicated too.  Husband is court ordered to have medical insurance.  Apparently that was causing trouble for the ex.  Her husband has military insurance.  She signed a stipulation that she covers SD on her insurance.  The problem now is that ex refuses to make sure SD is covered when she is here.  SD has a doctor here, the same as her siblings.  This doctor takes the insurance, ex just refuses to do her part, and we can't do it for her.  So until she chooses to, we use our insurance(we never dropped SD and won't) and ex should be liable for part of the co-pay.

We are going to review everything from the previous court order and make sure it is much more airtight.

Thanks,
Lynn

[Ref]

That airport is a little tricky. I wouldn't have chosen it if it were me. Sd has the option of connecting in Charlotte or Altlanta, but Atlanta is similarly complicated. So we have had her fly through Charlotte for quite some time.

I wouldn't worry too much about it if she is accompnaied by an attendent, but it wont calm BM down.

Maybe you can call the airline and have get someone's name and number that can talk to your ex and let her know how it works.

Is the flight early? If it is early, print out all the alternate flights that SD would be connected to if there is any issues. Show ex that the child will not be stuck in the airport all night.

Best wishes,
Ref

[HelpingHands]

Could you not pay for a one way flight out of mom's choice of airports and put her on a different flight home through the airport that is more convenient to you? Mom doesn't need to know until after you daughter is home with you for the visitation, correct? Mom wouldn't dare leave your daughter sitting at the airport of your choice to pick her up now would she?

Would the costs be similar to saving the $$ for the drive 3 1/2 hrs one way?

If you can, book one flight to you from mom's airport choice and one flight home using the airport of your choice. Is there anything preventing this from happening? If you know your days in advance I am sure you can get a good deal if you make your reservation several months advance.

[awakenlynn]

We are not real thrilled with Dallas/Ft. Worth either, but it is the only option. I think we could do O'Hare if it were an overnight(which isn;t allowed) or a flight that wasn't reasonable.  (I don't remember off hand).

Two different flights is possible I guess, I would really have to look into prices.  The difference between the one non-stop and the layover(more expensive) is about $225.

I will look into everyone suggestions and find one's that work.  Having ex talk to anyone won't.  She doesn't want to do anything and nothing will help incline her to allow either a different airport or layover.

Thank you,
Lynn

[HelpingHands]

I don't see that she really has the authority to dictate where YOUR transportation monies are spent.  Then again, if it were to go to court- the judge may order that since the child is familiar with that particular airport that that is what's in her best interests. Or he could order that since you are responsible for transportation costs, that you can pay the additional fees assocaited with mom taking daughter to your choice airport.

Looking at the worse case scenerio for you guys. In the long run, with court costs, legal fees and additional set backs, is it worth it in the end to fight too hard?  Trust me, I know too well the costs involved with long distance visitations, though mine wasn't via airlines. I've missed days upon days of work jeopardizing my job and paid dearly to the gas pumps.

[awakenlynn]

The problem is we CANT go to the airport of her choice.  We don't mind putting SD on the flight originating at the airport of her choice.  It just means that it will be a layover flight.

Since we have had to do all the extra driving, then shouldn't ex have to re-imburse us for the costs that SHE caused over the last 3 years?

So which is the bigger priority of ex's demands, that the flight be non-stop or that SD flies out of the airport of ex's choice?

Lynn