Feeling lost

[bart8797]

I have a four year old daughter whom I have visitation with two days during the week and every other weekend, we live in VA and the custodial mother allows my daughter to make the decision wheter or not she wants to come with me on her scheduled days and whther or not she is spending the night on our scheduled weekends what do I do? should I be the parent of this situation and take her with me no matter what?  I will not receive any help from her mother she says she is not going to make her go with me or make her spend the night.  I am really confused, I don't want to drag it into court but I will do what I have to to see my little girl.  Any advice will be appreciated.

[Giggles]

I can see your future already...it isn't pretty!!

You need to nip that right now!!  Do you have a court order for visitation?  If so, politely tell the BM that you are going to abide by it period and you would appreciate her cooperation.  If she refuses to turn the child over to you, then perhaps you may want to get the authorities involved.  The key to this is a paper trail...document...document...document so if necessary you can prove contempt.

Question:  Does the child cry or carry on when you come to pick her up?  You have to remember the age of child your dealing with and typically, they may have some reaction but QUICKLY get over it.  I used to work in a daycare and many times when the child cries over the parent leaving them there, they stop once the parent is out of sight!!!

[Kitty C.]

If the BM is refusing to force her to go and won't let you take her for your CO'd parenting time, that's called CONTEMPT.  It is also contempt if the BM is demanding that you bring her home before your scheduled parenting time is up, like not letting her spend the night.  It's very possible your daughter is being PAS'd (Parental Alienation Syndrome).....being coerced by the BM to not want to go with you by telling her crap like 'Daddy's place is icky, you don't like it there, it's not fun there, etc.'  But the amazing thing (at least for younger children) that happens is that once kids get to the other home for a while, they forget all about that stuff and just enjoy themselves.  After PAS had been indoctrinated over a long period of time, it will get harder and harder to overcome that.  It's the same as if someone were to tell you you're stupid...........hear it often enough and people tend to believe it, whether it's true or not.

If you have documented dates of her refusal to allow your daughter to come with you or stay for the full CO'd time, I'd take them to an atty. and see about filing for contempt.  This really sounds like the start of PAS and it will only get worse, MUCH worse, as time goes on.  If you can nip it in the bud now, it won't have such an impact years down the road.  But you MUST assert your rights NOW in order to make that happen.  And keep asserting them....the more you give in, the more the BM will try to take from you.

[bart8797]

I have read on the parent alienation syndrome and most of the description fits I have printed copies and highlighted areas of concern and gave them to her she denies any of this(one of the symptoms I believe). She is very vindictive and feels as if her way is the right way on everything when my daughter told her she wasn't going to spend the night the last time she was trying to talk her into coming back to her but my daughter didn't, my ex was furious she didn't say a word to me when I took my daughter back at scheduled time, but this was a month ago and when I ask my daughter why she doesn't want to come she tells me she will miss her mom so I am wondering what was said to her after that weekend.   I do have documentation from the first of this year on the days my daughter did and did not come, what was said, what time my ex called me to tell me ect.. The only thing I am afaid of with the authorities is how will it effect my little girl.

[bart8797]

Sorry I forgot to add that the custody papers state every other weekend with agreed upon days during the week

[Kitty C.]

I'm not sure if that was such a good idea to give her that documentation on PAS.  Whether she denied it or not, she knows you're keeping an eye on her on, so to speak.  I would recommend you keep your cards close to your chest from here on out.  Things like this have a tendency to turn around a bite you on the backside and it's people like her that take issues like this and twist them around in such a way as to make it look like YOU are the guilty one.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'The only thing I am afaid of with the authorities is how will it effect my little girl'.  Why would the authorities be involved?  What I was talking about is accumulating documentation on all the times she's denied you parenting time in any possible way and filing contempt on all of them at once in COURT.  One thing about contempt:  Filing on one occurance will leave you holding the bag and cost you a bundle.  You must have numerous incidences to show a pattern of denial or the court won't even consider it.  But don't count on the court doing a whole lot, other than slapping her hands and telling her not to do it again.  If you do end up in court on contempt charges, do everything possible to get something added to your agreement that there WILL be severe repercussions, not limited to loss of parenting time on her part, if there are any future contempts filed.

That's one thing I would strongly recommend to any parent going into a custody battle from the get-go.  Make sure there are provisions in the order for consequences if either parent deliberately goes against the order.  Make it known immediately that the court has the final word, NOT the custodial parent.

[wysiwyg]

Many orders, or state guidelines refer to something of the effect that it is not proper to place th echild in the middle of a situation nor is it acceptable to allow the child to make decisions on when to see each parent, on the same token, one could approach that to say (not that I am promiting this in your case) that you could tell the BM that by her terms then the child can make the decision as to when she needs to go home to see mom.  

BUt seriously, I would stick to the order and stick to the moral issue that it is not proper to place such a large burdensome decision on the child as this only serves to severe the promotion of a healthy relationship with each parent.

[gemini3]

You follow the court order.  If you're ex refuses to do the same, you take her to court for contempt.  It's black and white.  What your ex is doing will only get worse as time goes by.  If she is alienating your child it could have severe consequences on your daughter as she grows up.  As her father, you need to do what you can to protect her from this.

Sometimes ex's will do these things because they think they can get away with it.  She may stop if you put your foot down - but she's got no reason to stop as it stands.

So, here's what you do.  You copy the "Letter of Intent to Exercise Visitation" that you can find on this website.  You fill it out and send it to her certified mail, keeping a copy of the letter and the certification number.  Let her know that you will be exercising your visitation with your daughter as ordered by the court.  

She may do nothing, or she may spaz out and try to keep you from getting your daughter.  This is where you document, document, document.  If she calls you, record it.  If she won't let you pick up your daughter for the scheduled visitation, document that with a 3rd party witness.

VA, by the way, is a one party state.  That means that you can legally record your conversations with your ex and use them in court.

Bottom line - you have to put your foot down with her or she'll alienate your daughter from you.  Don't let that happen.  She will 'make' your daughter go with you because that is her court ordered duty as the custodial parent.

[laughterlove]

Hi there,

I'm here to offer the other side. No one responding knows your particular situation but I've noticed the responses are pretty one sided. I too have a four year old daughter. She has an extremely close relationship with both her father and me. She adores him. However, I will not force her to go to her fathers when she truly does not want to. He has accused me of coaching her, but this is not the case. I ALWAYS make sure she TRULY does not want to go. I encourage her to go. But she knows her needs better than I do. It's not often that she won't go but when she doesn't want to, there is always something more to it. It could just be something as simple as feeling like we have not had enough time together and she misses me. She's only 4. Her emotional security is the most important thing to me. If she is not ready for regular overnights then she is not ready. This is a BIG deal to young children.

So, if you have a strong relationship with your child, and SHE is saying she doesn't want to stay over or come, please do not immediately jump to PAS. She may just be expressing her needs and it's our job as parents to respect our childs needs.

[Erika]

Do you let your daughter decide for all things that affect her, besides going with her father.

An example would be when she is ready for school. Would you force her to go to school if she says she is not wanting to go because she would miss you.

Would you make her go to the doctor if she is sick, even if she cries and does not want to go.

I am trying to point out that she will not be traumatized because her mommy and daddy make decisions for her. Four is much too young for letting her make adult decisions.

Sorry, but I agree with her father on this.

How would you feel if she went with dad and did not want to come home to you because she misses her dad and wants more time. Would you be agreeable and let her stay, lets say for a week if that is what she wanted.

Because that is what you let her do with dad, so in relaity you would have to let her stay due to her emotional well being. Put the shoe on the other foot.