Discipline vs. Abuse

[kitten]

I need opinions on what you all think about washing a 4 year old mouth out with soap.  I myself would not do it and neither would DH, but he just found out that BM did this recently.  He says neither of them ever have and agreed never would discipline the children in this way.  Discipline or Abuse?

[flewwellin]

Definitely Discipline. I believe that children need to be punished for what they do bad and rewarded for what they do well.  Depends on what the 4 year old was doing would determine the extent of the punishment.  

[kitten]

She called her older brother an a$$hole.  The children have not been allowed to see their father for 8 months and have not been to counseling.  

[jilly]

I odn't think I'd call it either one but not sure what to call it. Bad judgment I guess. I do know that it's dangerous to wash a child's mouth out with soap.  Not much you can do about it after the fact.  I'm sure the 4 year old was just repeating what'd she heard somebody else say.

[kitten]

Thank you for the replies.  My concern here is that this is the first phase of more damaging physical/emotional abuse.  All 3 skids have begun to act out with bm and new husband because of missing their Dad.  Like I said before, when bm and dh were married, they never punished the children in this way.  We are concerned that bm is going along with the husband and he has a known history of physical abuse against a former ss.

[jilly]

Guess she got what she asked for then huh?  Judge gave her the green light to move, which helped her accomplish her mission of keeping Will from having a relationship with the kids.  Now she's dealing with the consequences.  Unfortunatley. this is a sucky situation for the kids :(

[kitten]

Yes, she deserves it all right.  It is so frustrating to be so helpless feeling as though they are in the hands of an abuser (now two) with no way to intervene.  One or more of them will actually have to be hurt for Will to have any chance of getting them back.  Thanks again Jilly.  I needed to talk this out.

[SadStepMom]

Honestly, washing my son's mouth out with soap has been the most effective punishment.  But me doing so was limited to one drop of dish soap in his mouth.  I have done it twice, once right about when he turned 4 and once again shortly after turning 5.  It has been a much better behavior modifier than any other method of discipline that I have tried.

But I certainly can see where if someone used a much larger quantity of soap it could certainly be abusive.

[flewwellin]

Then I definitely believe that it warranted the actions taken. I'd have washed her mouth out with soup too.  Time out, taking away game systems, spankings, etc. will do absolutely nothing to help this.  counceling and seeing their father has nothing to do with it in my opinion.  Sorry she's not been able to see her daddy but the truth of the matter is she said a dirty word and is 4 she needs to be punished.

[mc24]

I tried to post this already, but something happened.   Don't know where it went  :)  

Anyway, I don't believe you should punish a child for saying a bad word the first time it happens.  Kids are gonna repeat what they hear, and don't know any better - the first time.  The first time I heard either of my kids say a bad word, I explained that they are to never ever use that kind of language.  That it is a grown up word, and a bad word not for kids to say.  I made it all like a big deal   "OH NO, you should NEVER say that word - that is a REALLY BAD word".  That kind of thing.  They each understood and neither of them has ever said another bad word.

However, if that doesn't work, and they are doing it all the time after they know better and you can't get a handle on it, I wouldn't call someone abusive for using soap.  I can't imagine doing it myself, b/c how in the world do you get the soap in their mouth?  I would think you would have to hold them down and pry their little mouth open and that might become abusive or traumatic for them at least.  

I liked the way they did it in "A Christmas Story"  He just had to hold the bar of soap in his mouth for a full minute.