Dilemma - request for advice (long)

[rm1759]

Hello, I would like some of your opinions on what I think is a pretty difficult situation.  First a little history, I am the NCP, with the "standard" visitation schedule - about 20% of the time with my 8yo DD.  BM and I were never married, and I was unaware of my DD until she was 3 1/2 yo.  At first we were amicable, but things went south very quickly when I started to push for more time.  Finally all communication broke down, and we began the court process, and settled in mediation last year.  Communication has not been good, and I believe there may be some amounts of PAS going on in the other house (my 7yo dd wrote a letter this summer saying that I didn't care about her, I only wanted to take her away from her mother.)  In any case, things with DD and I are very good.

Now to the problem.  BM has recently had trouble with her back.  From what I understand, she has been confined to her bed for pretty much the last 2 months.  I only know these things when DD offers the information, I do NOT prod her in any way.  Then I discovered this past sunday that BM had fallen has been in the hospital since last wednesday.  I was told then that she would be returning home "tomorrow" by her mother.  (BM and her mother live together along with DD).  I have spoken with grandma several times this week, each time I am told she will get home "tomorrow".  The conversation with grandma last night was actually quite amicable, and she did tell me that BM had a compressed fracture of 2 vertebrate in her neck, and sever lower back pain that they don't know what is causing it.  She is still in the hospital.

So, here is my dilemma, I told grandma that I am more than willing to help care for DD while BM is recovering, and I would relish the opportunity for extra time with her.

I have joint legal custody, and a right of first refusal in the CO.  Should I just go and get DD, and tell grandma tough, she can come back when BM is better?  The pros here would obviously be more time with DD, the obvious cons here would be that grandma and BM would be furious, and certainly tell DD that I was only taking advantage of BM since she was in the hospital.  If I just let it go, then there would be the possibility of making things more amicable in the future between BM and I, which *might* lead to more time (but that is highly doubtful, this woman has a fit if I ask for an extra hour of time with DD).

[backwardsbike]

Your CO states you have right of First Refusal.  You have a contempt motion to write as the Grandma has been caring for your child for god knows how long and you were never informed.  This stopped you from exercising that Right of Refusal.  I would go and get my child.  If you do not I feel they could use that against you at some future time.  It may establish some status quo not in your daughter's best interest of someone other than you taking care of her when BM is unable.

Please take the advice of one who is sadder but wiser.  Six years ago I too wanted things to be friendly.  Now I see my kids only 4 days /month inspite living only 20 minutes from them.  There is major PAS going on that I cannot prove and I'm loosing my kids.  And I can never get any info from schools or docotrs without a fight in court let alone any extra time.

Go get your child.  I say to he$# with being amicable.  You don't have to be beligerant, just firmly state that this is what the court order specifies.  If you need toyou can call the local police or Sherrifs for a "Keep the peace assist".  Have your Co with you.

Good luck let us know how it goes.

[shawneetears]

I have to agree....if you don't exersize that right, it does set a precedent.  But there are some things to consider.....would this interfere with the child's schooling?  How far apart are you?  If it means that the child would have to either miss school or enroll in a different school it might be best to work something else out.
Have you attempted to talk to the hospital?  If not, try to contact their legal liason first.... because of privacy rights, the information you can get is going to be very very limited but as secondary caretaker for the child you might be able to get a few questions answered through the liason.  You really only need to know one thing.....expected date of release. If they have not started discharge planning then it is not going to be "tomorrow".....  You need to know if she is expected to be discharged to home or to a rehab facility.  If they say they don't know then discharge is more than 48 hours away and you need to have the child with you; provided that will not interfere with school.
If it were me I'd try to see if you can simply arrange something.  You might need to remind g'ma of theCO; but try to come to some sort of arrangement.  Let her know that you understand how close they are and it isn't that you don't feel she's capable but that it is your responsibility as a parent. If she trys the "she's coming home tomorrow" thing....well that's great, then having with me this evening will give you time to rest and get everything ready.
But if g'ma still balks then you may need to see an attorney about contempt and interference.

[rm1759]

Thanks for the replies.

I live about an hour away from her school.  I could possibly do that for a week or so, but anything longer than that, and I would have some trouble at work.  She is also involved in numerous after-school activities, and I doubt we would be able to continue doing some of those, b/c of the distance.

I spoke with my attorney and he said I should just sit tight for a little while longer and wait to see what kind of information we get from them, they have been slightly more forthcoming this past weekend (I had my DD this weekend), but they still either do not know or are not saying what is wrong.

I have her next friday for  a week for the x-mas break, and she has school all of this week, my idea is to let her finish this week of school, then have her the following week as planned.  After which if I still don't have any more information, or if she is still in the hospital I was going to keep her with me, at least for the week she is out of school.  After that, if BM is STILL not out, then I would have to assume something more serious is going on, and then I should go down to the courthouse to get a temporary custody order.  (the obvious problem here is that by the time we get the hearing, she may be "cured" and then I've wasted alot of time, and pissed off the judge)

What are your thoughts on this?  If she has to go through extended re-hab of 2 or 3 months, would that be grounds to have custody with me, enroll her at a new school closer to where I live?  I am worried that if I go down that road, then when it finally gets in front of the judge I will look like I have tried to take advantage of BM...

Also, if I were to get her, and then 3 weeks later she goes back to her BM, I really don't think that would be good for DD, she is already stressed enough about her mother, I think she would be upset if I also took her from her grandmother, and then when she got back, I KNOW she would be told "See, I told he wants to take you away from us" I think she might be very hurt...

[MixedBag]

And yes, I'm an NCP too.

You mention first right of refusal -- does your decree give a definition to this?

See -- I don't agree because Mom lives with Grandma, so you're really talking about changing your daughter's normal home.  Grandma didn't move in after all this happened, and the child is in her normal bedroom.

I also wouldn't agree that it's in the child's best interest to change schools for what could be a short period of time (a few weeks or months for rehab)....

Save your pennies for a "situation" that you could win.

So I guess I would agree with your attorney...

Maybe the BM (and Grandma) would agree if you asked to have your daughter the WHOLE Christmas break and every weekend until mom really gets back on her feet.  (Keeping in mind that Mom and Grandma probably would like a day for "Christmas Celebrations).....

[dsm]

Given the situation that you describe where your DD has shown conflict of the time she is with you already, it would be to your advantage to try to work with the gma and BM - see to get the whole break from school and then weekends.  This allows your DD to retain her day-to-day schedule while you get figured out what is going on more with her mother.  See what you can find out from the gma, or maybe even the mom will be willing to talk with you - if you choose your words carefully so as not to have her go immediately on the defensive end.

Good luck!  Keep us posted!

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dsm - 34
DH - 37
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 19 months
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2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[Davy]

So in essence ya'll think gma's presence, influence, and interference (the bigger problems) overrides the father's ability to care for his daughter thus giving rise to non-compliance with the court order.

Perhaps it would be best for the child (and the BM) in the long run if BF and BM determine all issues and discount gma ... even in Pinellas county.  

[dsm]

There already is talk if I understand the poster's original message correctly that he is worried about the mom or gma saying things to his DD like he is trying to completely take her away from her mom.  What Mixed suggested, and I agree with - is to use the current order to his benefit for the moment and buy time.  The child's schooling needs to be taken into consideration and there are too many unknowns right now.  He posted that he is an hour away - if he were to take the child full time right now, you are looking at 2+ hours a day in a car just to get to and from school - and what if there are bad roads/weather.

It makes alot of sense to sit back, use the current order to request the ROFR for the break that is coming up and every weekend for the time that the mom needs to be in the hospital.  Use this as the opportunity to figure out what is going on with her health - what does the prognosis look like - can a compromise be made somewhere?  And true, that compromise should be made between the dad and the mom - although I'm sure there will be contribution from the gma given that she is with the child on a regular day-to-day basis.  

The poster here needs to keep in mind the best thing for his child - and while it very well could be that she should be with him, is now the right time to enter into that fight?  I don't think so - there isn't enough of a case yet.  However, there is enough to warrant him requesting and getting the extra time with his daughter.  And in the same time give his daughter the security and comfort that her dad is supportive of her relationship with her mom too.


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dsm - 34
DH - 37
SD - 15
LO - 9
BB - 19 months
------------------
2 Cheap Entertainment cats - Snoop & Dagger - 5 years and counting.....

[rm1759]

Thanks again everyone for your input.

The big reason why I am having so much trouble with this, is trying to determine what is in my DD's best interest.  She needs more time with her father, but every time in the past I have tried to get more time with her, BM always says no.  We have the "standard" visitation agreement, with only 2 weeks in the summer, and I had to fight her tooth and nail just to get that (we settled in mediation a little over a year ago).  In the past year, I have requested more time with DD over 20 times, and she has only agreed to 1 extra hour so far.  If I decide to use the ROFR, she will be extremely upset, and will no doubt still use it to bad mouth me to DD.  My gut says to just spend as much time with her as possible, and use every possible avenue to get it.

OTOH, as things are right now, BM and I are talking civilly for the first time in years, she (and gma) have both said they appreciate my being supportive of them while they go through this crisis, so I feel like I have made some headway with the situation there (BM called DD from the hospital this past weekend, and we spoke for a few minutes on the phone).  If I use the ROFR, I think I may destroy that progress, and the potential for more time in the future.  Not to mention, DD is going through so much stress right now, worried about BM in the hospital, then she will have to sit through the stress of the major fight it will cause when I keep her (I have NO doubt the police would be called in, not that they would do anything, but gma and BM would be absolutely hysterical) and then being told when she goes back to BM's what a terrible person I was to take advantage of them when BM was sick.  I think that would undo any positive that might come about her spending more time with me...

[Davy]

My perception is the BD is rational and focused on his DD while the BM's silence coupled with gma presence is compromising DD's opportunity to further bond with BD which has already been determined by a court of law.  Further it appears that BD is supportive of DD's relationship with BM while BM is clearly not supportive of DD's relationship with BD.

Would it not be great if BM said to BD ... "Can you work with me on an issue concerning DD ?  I am hospitalized and incapicitated for the unforseeable future even when I am able to leave the hospital. I believe it would be best for DD to be in your care at least for the remainder of the current school year".    No court cost or involvement. No attorney costs. Just a simple and practical agreement between two parents that has already determined by court order that would benefit a child.

I think BD will make the best decisions for his DD but I strongly believe there is a constant bias mindset against fatherhood to place females on a perpetual pedestal even on a shared / equal parenting website.  Why not fully support / encourage a DD / BD relationship ??

BTW, it's a 4 hour travel time.  1 hour to school.  1 hour to work.  1 hour to pick-up DD.  1 hour back home.  (BTDT at DD adamant request).