Returning Child's Clothes After Visitation

[SSDD]

We face the same problem with XW- we buy new wardrobes for each of the girls at the beginning of each new season ...............and she refuses to send them back to us. She sends them in the same outfit time after time..........one of their old, ill fitting play outfits that isn't appropriate to wear anywhere.
We had the atty send a letter of complaint to her, the court and her atty, and since then we have gotten our clothing back.....but with subtle changes. A brand new pair of jeans has a permanent bleach stain prominently on the leg. The new shirt, a ripped hole along the belly that cannot be easily repaired.
We have now begun photographing the girls in their outfits before they leave.
Documentation is the key, or so I have heard.

[mango]

This is the ONLY thing my DH and his ex agreed to early on.

We take the clothes SD wears and put all of it in a grocery bag, and send it back to moms house and vise versa. More often then not we just send her back with the clothes she wore over.

This just makes sense because that parent took the time to shop and select the clothes for thier child. Perhaps they match other clothing in thier home or were a special outfit from a grandparent. Chances are the clothes dad picked will never even be worn at moms house, because of differing tastes etc etc...So why not return them. Children understand moms house dads house.  

It's just being practical.

Now, as my SD gets older she will develop her own taste in clothing and have favorite clothes that she may have picked out herself. At this time I think it would be fair to assume that she can be mature enough to be in charge of what she wants to wear from moms house during her dads week and mom's week form dads house.

Just my opinion.

[mango]

One more thing.

I used to take a sharpie pen and make a tiny smiley face on the inseem of all her clothes. A subliminal thing that showed it was from dads house.

The BM hates any reminders of DH anyway, and won't let SD wear (or play with toys from our home) anyway. The grocery-bag thing only worked for a few weeks and then she stopped sending clothes back from dads home. They usually got discarded instead of returned, so we have been sending her home in her moms stuff. Because it simply is not practical to keep buying the clothes over and over again.

But in our case we are dealing with a PAS psycho. I only mentioned the bag thing cause it could work for other people. :-)

[T0052SC]

Bigfamily,
You have taken a lot of guff for your opinion on the kid's clothes.  I my opinion you are correct.  I fully expect mud thrown at me now too, but I have a big shield.  One thing I think a lot of the others are forgetting is when you buy these clothes your intent is for the clothes to be the kids, and you would allow them to wear them any where the kids want with the contingency it is with you.  That sounds selfish, and controlling!!  I look at it this way, if you and the ex were still married you would have no problem supplying these clothes plus addition money for the other parent to supply additional stuff, but now that the marriage has ended you want to set up traps for the ex to fall in to so it will put you up on a platform.  This sounds controlling and like PAS.  The clothes are purchased for the kids and unless you can wear them the clothes are now the possession of the kids and it shouldn't matter where they wear them in your custody or the ex's.

I also saw some of the replies that bothered me and I would like to comment;

>Sure, my daughter is 15 months old. I'm SURE she'll remember Daddy sported the Ralph Lauren and Mom bought at yard sales. My daughter has NO CONCEPT right now of what she's wearing....gimme a break.

Does it matter who supplied the better clothes?  Do you really think your kid cares who supplied the better clothes?  Do you really want to raise a materialistic child that will become selfish because se was taught to think some one is better because they pay more for their possession?

>They are MY clothes for HER. If you met my ex, you might agree she deserves nothing. Any woman who takes a child and secrets themselves and daughter from dad for 4 MONTHS deserves nothing. Me selfish???... ha ha, that's a joke pal. The ex is the most selfish self centered miserable human being I've ever met (now you can slam me for marrying her)

I understand you feel hurt but don't use the child to seek your revenge.  It was not you kid's fault that the mother kept you from them so don't make them suffer for it.

Remember raising a child is not about who can out do the other parent, but how to instill good values, morals, and make a well adjusted confident adult out of the mold.  By expecting the child to choose some one by how much they spend on them or what they give them will only corrupt the long term goal of raising a child.  

[msme]

you obviously have a better situation than most of the folks here. We aren't dealing with this problem anymore but when we did, it was a nightmare. My son got his kids with the rags on their backs. Even when court ordered, she refused to give him anything, including the baby's bed baby. He had to buy them everything from the skin out.

We sent them in nice new outfits & they came back in rags. She went to court & claimed that they had outgrown what she had at her house & they ordered us to send a bag & her to return it.

His ex would keep all the clothes & send them back in more rags & with the empty bag. After two rounds of this, we told the older kids to make sure they wore home one of the outfits from our house.  That was when they told us that the clothes were gone. They thought mom had sold them.

After that, I layed out all of the clothes on the sofa & took polaroid pics of them. I then took pics of the kids. I also typed up a list of the clothes & made 3 copies. He had her sign 2 copies & gave her the third one. He then told her that if she did not return the clothes on the list, the pics & the list would be sent to the court. We also took pics of the kids when they returned.

After that, there was only one time she didn't bring something back & she apologized & brought it the next time she picked up the kids. The point is that many people here have gone deep into debt, just trying to get to see their kids. Buying clothes for no reason becomes a great hardship that they shouldn't have to endure.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!

[MYSONSDAD]

If you had read some of the other posts, you would have read, clothes that don't fit, not seasonal, damaged and so on.

Again I ask, who pas's who on what is sent with the kids.

I wish you people would read before you judge....

MY SON WILL BE DRESSED FOR HIS COMFORT

[T0052SC]

I respect your answer and don't denie that there is probably some level of PAS on both sides.  My argument though is that unless you presonally are going to wear the clothes the kids should be able to take possession of them and wear them any where including your house or the ex's.  

On the note of the postings that delt with clothes that are not seasonal, ratty, or just not the right size.  I read some where people were returning the kids in those clothes to prevent the ex from being able to use the new, seasonal, fit correctly clothes.  For those postings my argument is if you return the kid in the same ratty, unseasonal, incorrect fit clothes as they came, how are you any better than your ex.  A lot of you posted that you wanted to set an example of a better life style but by practicing that you don't.  You all basicly have explessed that you feel the ex is saving the good stuff for there house and using the incorrect clothes for transfer.  If you do the same you are no better that the ex and the kids will see that.  If you take the stance of, letting the kid take possession and wear nicer clothes back to the ex's the kid will feel that you are giving them some autonomy and freedom.  That the kid will respect and that will show the kid love.  

Another thing, by making a big stink of this especially to the ex, you are giving the ex the power they want.  I think a lot of you are missing the motivation the ex has.  A lot of the posting feel that the ex is doing this to suplement income so the child suport does not have to be used on clothes.  I think you are wrong.  I think the motivation is the ex knows this upsets you and is controlling your emotions through this.  The ex still has ill feelings towards you but the ex is not trying to get you back through money, but through knowing this upsets you.  It just happends that the way to your feelings is through your money.

When it comes to money just remmember that money is something we all want but non of us have, so what does it matter.

[smtotwo]

she has nice things for them, she just refuses to send them to our house.
She'd rather have us buy them, than spend HER child support on clothes for the kids.

And Franly, we cannot afford to dress the kids, with the amount of child support DH pays.  So the clothes they have at our house are either
rummage sale, goodwill, or hand me downs from my 13 yr old.

She bought them new winter jackets last yr, the kids told us thay had new jakcets and boots, then sent them to our house in WINDBREAKERS and TENNIES WITHOUT SOCKS!!

NOTHING that we buy goes to their house.  NOTHING!

[MYSONSDAD]

I read back thru all the posts. Yes, a few did agree they send the child back with the clothes they came in, but these posts were separate from those of us dealing with the seasonal issues, ratty, not proper fit.

I disagree with your last paragraph, I think it is emotional abuse on the child to have to dress this way. What message does this send?

Most of us do not allow this to upset us, we plan for these occurences. On all the posts, they wrote they dressed the children properly for return and did not recieve the clothes back. Some of us are unable to continue buying new clothes.

What DOES upset me, is the shame and embarassment the child endures.

It is not just about the clothes, it is a combination of issues. As parents, we hate to see our children living thru this abuse.

[msme]

Perhaps, you could start taking pictures of the children as they arrive & as they leave. Buy a few nice yard sale items for this & return what she sends. After about a month or 2, write her a very polite, CRR letter. Include copies of the pics & state that,.....as can be seen in the pics, the children are not being dressed appropriately for their visits & they are not carrying the clothes that they wore home from the last visit. Please note the difference in the clothing they return home in.

Since it is embarrassing to them to be dressed inappropriately, please refrain from doing so. Also it is not right for you to keep all the clothes I send them home in & send the children in things that are ratty & ill fitting or seasonally inappropriate. If you continue to do this, I will have no choice but to bring this issue to the attention of the court, along with these pictures & the others I will be continuing to take.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Don't know if it will help but I don't think it will hurt. It is not an nice situation to deal with but who knows, it might work.

Good luck & God bless!
You never get a second chance to make a first impression!