Visitation

[MomofTwo]

I think MixedBag gave you some good information....since NY has already denied your request for jurisdiction you can proceed one of two ways...

1) Appeal that decision if the time hasn't passed or
2) File in FL

Appeals can be lengthy and expensive and typically have to be based on court or procedural error, not just because you don't like their decision.  The longer you are fighting with NY, the longer you are losing time filing for time with your child.

FL courts will have more power and input over her and your child and will have the power to enforce any orders that are set.

Regarding travel costs - it could go either way, but from what I have seen in FL courts, since there are currently no visitation orders and this would be starting from day one for these orders and she resides in FL now, they may in fact not order her to pay these costs. The distance (in their eyes) already exists so no distance is being created. You can always ask for these costs to be paid by her or to be shared, you won't get them unless you file for it.

Regarding phone calls, you also need to file for specific telephone time. Without an order for it, Mom doesn't have to allow it.

If you can't afford an attorney, FL does have PRO SE assistance and their forms are online.  You can download the forms and read over everything then call the court house and ask them for their specific directions on how to file - they will tell you where to mail your filing, how many copies, ...

Many people file successfully pro se in FL.

[pgh115]

Here is the thing i didnt even know i had a daughter so i couldent even defend myself and my daughter from leaving. The fact of the matter  is that i am jut now learning what to do i just found this website earler this week and joined  a fathers Rights program, i am about to start fighting this to the death and im taking all the information that i learn fopr the next few weeks to get a jump to hopefully save me some cash. What is a website that i can best find the best questions to ask any suggestions?

[ocean]

Call the county in florida that you think your child lives in...family court. See how you can file. You may be able to start the process through the mail but then you will have to serve her. There are service companies that you can hire to serve her but you are going to need where she lives/works.
Also do not pay any lawyer in NY for a florida case...be careful. If NY already told you no they wont take the case you really need a florida lawyer to represent you...

[goost]

First thing yopu need to do is get 3 certified copies of your visitation order from new york then you must have them domesticated to the county she lives in at the clerks office. now you will be eligible for court appointed visitation and negotiation for expenses

[Davy]

 
I didn't want to get into this ... you have received horrific advice from these posters.  At this point it is probably best you research UCCJA and PKPA Supreme court rulings and moreover, the reason these statues exist.  The FR organization (probably with both male and female advocates) may be able to assist and guide you.   Once familiar with the legal statues then decide the capabilities you are seeking from legal representation and interview accordingly.  If you are fortunate you will find a child oriented rule of law type that will not just go along with rubbered stamped mother superior democracy.  In the day (mother custody 97.5%) I found 2 in as many long-distance calls thru the IL State Bar association.  One I met face-to-face for approx. 20 minutes when I hand carried my case files to him and the other I never personally met.  Both were outstanding lawyers.  $750 for one and $3500 for the other but he recused a judge and stopped the state court from ever again having anything to do with my children or myself.

Jurisdictional litigation is much much cheaper than Custody since the black and white statues are not left up to the bias discretion of a judge ...  If the judge invokes his bias and prejudices or can not read then the federal statues PKPA are invoked and you don't have to dance around with the appelattes or supremes. 

I think it is suspect that this poster was to go to FL as the result of jurisdictional arguments (UCCJA not invoked) but more likely some smart-ass remark by a judge or court clerk.  Is there a ruling in writing that NY has declined jurisdiction ?  Does not sound like it and I doubt it.  Some of the main reasons these statues exist is to prevent a parent from abscounding with children to a different state resulting in favorable custody decisions, excessive legal fees, etc. and to avoid judicial competition.  Are you suggesting that it is OK to not return a child home because court orders are non-exsistent ??  I hope not,  It is absolutely ludicrous to consider marriage, non-existent court orders, or to imply the foreign state has more 'power' over the abductor. What BS.   Children have a right to a relationship with both parents and to be supported by both parents rather that forcing the labors of one parent to finance the legal possession.   Particularly in Florida, an out of state father has absolutely no standing and children's life have been seriously depleted.

A Parental abduction is not to far away from a stranger abduction especially when considering the exploitation of children.  The system only wants to address "CS" (unless the children are with the father) and maybe "visitation isues".   

My children and I prevailed under the UCCJA statues in two states (TX and IL) and in Federal court under the PKPA statues.  In IL one judge was recused for being bias and prejudice against myself and my children.  We scoffed at referring to dad as "NCP".  I was always "Dad" even when I had the societal label "CP" .  You might say I had been promoted from the "dxxk head" I was called as an ncp.


Generally speaking, an opponent can file you to death in an out of state court.   You will be at the beck and call of a Florida court where your opponent will have a leg up usually at the great detriment to your child and you and for years to come.  The comment about filing "pro se' " is a joke and a farce.  BambiPambi.  That is serious business and not just complying with the court and filing their on-line form...being every body's friend.  (For God's sake this is about children not a traffic ticket).  BTDT many times. Geesh !!

Hope this post helps clarifies the erroneous postings and the "ignorance" that is accepted by judges, lawyers, and many others from her "social experience" with both acts (no PKPA experience) and you would most likely be hard pressed to convince the courts otherwise as previously suggested.  OMG !

There's much more but one thing that is important for some to try to understand ... success was partially due to the many women and mothers (I did not know) that stepped forward on behalf of my precious children.  This site is about children ... please get on board. 

Hoping the best for this child.

[ocean]

Davy-
I understand that there are laws but they can be interpreted in many ways. I dont know all the answers but have dealt with the NY system for 15 years. You have to deal with the judge before your case and that is it. Our lawyer fought hard but it takes a lot of money and TIME to fight the system that just does not work and relies heavily on individual judges views. You can appeal but judges stick together unless there was an obvious case of misuse.

I think the orginial poster does not want to fight the sytem and prove anything, just see his child. He needs to do it how they want him or he will be fighting for years in court. I admire you for going after the laws we have and changing some of it but some of us just want to see our kids and not fight the big fight.

[MomofTwo]

Davy
All due respect, the poster clearly said in his first posts NY would not accept jurisdiction and  was told he had to file in FL. Depending on the timeline, can either appeal that or if too much time has lapsed, he has to file in FL.   He also said he doesn't have money to fight that and ONLY wants to file to get to see his child.   Your comment regarding Pro Se being mambi pambi or whatever term you want is ridiculous to criticize when it could be the one solution he has to get things rolling to see his child. Should he have representation, probably yes, but he already clearly said he can't afford it.

Perhaps you won, perhaps you had the financial means to fight the big fight and go on a crusade, but not everyone wants that nor can do that. You are not helping this person but being criticizing and flippant for people who are only trying to help.

[Davy]

What I read is that the OP was in a CS hearing and asked about visitation and was told he had to go to FL.  It was not a jurisdictional hearing.  And to even suggest an out-of state father can file O/L Pro se and they will tell him how many copies he needs, etc is bizzard.  What is this father going to do or say when he misses 2 -3 days work and has extraordinary travel expenses to a FL whorehouse then some former NY cabbie in a black FL robe tells him he will have supervised  1 hr visitation every two weeks.

This mother hands are dirty...the father didn't know he had a child until the mother was close to Cuba and she needed money.  Did she relocate for a job ?  Probably not.  Can she provide for the child ?  Apparently not.  Did she care about the long-term well-being of the child and understand the importance of a child having two parents in their life ?  No.  Was the mother only thinking only of herself ?  Absolutely.  Does it appear the government promotes the mother's bad behavior and seeks to disenfranchise the father from the child ?  So far.  Is the child endangered ?  Probably.  Is the government going to protect the child.  Absolutely not.  I and others could go on ... there should be hope that the daughter can even be located !!  I think you all post with your selp-imposed female superior mind-set  and totally disregard that this child is at risk in most circles.

It appears to me this father is solid and the child's best chance at life he's doing the best he can toward that end and to be a part of the child's life.

All this advice about timeline ... appealing in NY ... must file if FL is completely bogus.  That's exactly why the PKPA exist and your advice may financially drain this father and he may NEVER SEE HIS CHILD AGAIN.  All your blue sky Disney Land advise seriously ....es .. off.
It is like you're reading from your feminist playbooks written in the NY senate, shipped to Cook county IL for binding to be dstributed by the FL DCFS.

With out knowing anything about the NY Injustice system, my overall opinion and best effort for this father is to try to quickly determine NY jurisdiction by the statues not social policy then if need be relocate to FL (it is very corrupt like IL ) and move across the street from the kidnapper if he can find her.  This is an expensive walk in the swamp no matter where the daughter can be found. 

Concerning me being on a Crusade and winning big with a lot of money.  The wife's parent had truly big $$$ and a lot of IL political clout.    I remember participating with Dallas TFER, an orgainization of women and men whose endeavors were for children.  SORRY YOU MISSED IT !!  I remember being gainfully employed ... able to eat a meal twice a week and hand carrying a check to the CS office.  The CS clerks would ask what the extra 2 cents was for and then gackle when I told them I wanted to get my 2 cents in somewhere.  My specialized Tx atty (1984) wanted 50K upfront and said the case would cost between 75K and 125K dependent on how the other side reacted. He also said the PKPA only worked for females in the Republic.   So I took 2 more cents and had to enter IL to argue jurisdiction in a county I or the kids had never been or lived before and the wife had only been there approx. 10 days then there was the next county and another all while maintaining a legitmate action in TX.  Evidentally the authorities called for me  to get my two oldest out of county jail where they had been placed for their own safety after being beaten in their HOME again.  They would have started a riot in juvie.  She was a varsity cheerleader and he was a first ever varsity starter as a freshman. 

The rest is somewhat unprintable.  I strongly suggest you kick off your goodie two shoes ...grab both ears and ..... never mind ... ya'll are clue less

[Davy]

AND... I really have a very hard time understanding why there are people out there thinking they are helping parents and children while the child(ren) has been put up for sale by one parent with the assistance and promotion of corrupt government systems.

A lot of children have suffered (and still are) because of this corruption for the government inept control of the masses.   This is not a Crusade per se or about winning the big fight.
It's a war within our own government about human decency and a quality way of life for the people.  Protection of  children is upfront and formost.  Hopefully ya'll will get on board for our own future existence. 

[*iLUVmySD*]

Davy,

It is apparent from your posts that you have had a tough time of it and are very jaded regarding the current legal system.  I think it is great that you are an advocate to try to change the wrong you see in it, but that road is not for everyone.  The truth is this person most likely needs a lawyer which most people on this board are not.  If you are a lawyer, then great feel free to feel a notion of superiority over everyone else here, but until then everyone has had different experience and the resulting advice is based on each individual's experience.  Disagreeing with advice given is fine, but you continually try to make it a personal attack instead of professional criticism which is uncalled for.  We are all people trying to help the children here; we are all here to put the children first.