Visitation

[Kitty C.]

That's why we all need to not only stay active here to help those in their fight, but also do all we can to change the laws.  Bottom line, if the laws don't change to keep government influence in families as minimal as possible, nothing will change.  And we will keep fighting and trying and helping here as long as it takes.

One thing I have learned, not only here but in life in general, is that what may have worked for one like a charm may have disasterous effects for another.  Which is why those who come here have a distinct advantage of getting multiple viewpoints and advice from all across the country and multiple jurisdictions.  Then they can tailor they fight to what works best for them.

[*iLUVmySD*]

Well said Kitty.

[MixedBag]

WOW!

Thanks for the vote of confidence MomofTwo.

pgh115:  do you still LIVE in the state of New York?

If you do, I actually agree with Davy that jurisdiction should be the state of New York.

HOWEVER, I think you're beyond that.

Well, maybe not.

You could file a motion with the state of New York SPECIFICALLY requesting that the court address the subject of jurisdiction like Davy suggested.  (IMHO, you would win).

In the meantime, you're not getting closer to having time with your child.

So it becomes a pick and choose -- what's more important to YOU?

EX#3 COULD have appealled OH's decision to move jurisdiction to NV, or he could go to NV and get in front of a judge where Mom lived.  He chose to go after his children vs. educating the OH judge on the fact that the judge was wrong.

[Davy]

You ladies are way out of hand with your 8th grade civic lessons (sorry Kitty) concerning civil obedience and rule of law, snide remarks (well said...,educating judges, vote of confidence ,etc).  Implying I might be an arrogant lawyer ... Just because I try to be polite and respectful (oh my, did I really say that).   

These matters are not about us .... you and me.  It is about children. 

In the beginning I spent nights and weekends in law libraries reading legal statues, case results, rulings and the like trying to find out why mothers were rewarded sole custody 97.5 % of the time.  Why fathers maybe became a visitor in their child's life if they paid enough money and the mother allowed it.  I am/was just a regular naive guy that knew nothing about divorce and custody ... didn't really personally know anybody that was divorced and only knew a few growing up whose parents were divorced.  But I could read .

I had a familiarty with the Virginia judicial system as a plantiff in a drunk driving case where as the drunk was defended in traffic court by the Attorney General of Virginia (really).  Fourth hearing after not showing up on the first three a young attorney stood when the case was called and reequested the case be postoned until later that day (courtroom empty) because he was meeting with US Senator so and so and dodah.  The witness, a police captain, and 3 LE officers with all the evidence (6 empty beer cans and a fifth with an inch of whisky left) were at each and every hearing.  Charges were reduced from DWI to Reckless and fined the least permitted by law $150 after the AG whispered in the judges ear. The civil suit was worst.  The judge dropped the punitive damages portion of the case because I was in the military and in chambers ordered myself and none of the witnesses (all LE) mention the alcohol or the accident itself (no pictures) because she admitted fault.  Her attorneys had a heyday pesenting me as a young buck trying to take advantage of a 65 year old grandma.
Military hospital to be awarded in a separate suit for my 3.5 month hospitalization.  Coma for 5 days .... Cadillac practically head on with VW.  The other patients were coming back from Nam with bullet-riddled bodies and missing limps, etc.  Once we became ambulatory we helped other patients from all over the country because nobody else would.  We were there thinking we were going to stop the injustices while our counter parts burned their bras on the state house steps. Precious daughter was 5 mos. old.  Please don't lecture me about the 'laws'.  I'm not jaded .... I know the truth.

Back to being naive.  I thought that surely family court would never be like my previous experience.  I would simply waltz in there to let the TX judge know I was the primary involved responsible parent (in school, etc) all their life since mother was never around in the evening hours and that the kids were all healthy, happy, athletic, scholarly kiddos.   Upon arrival, standing in the back of the court room listening to other cases, I soon learned my kids were in serious trouble.  Of course, Mother was IL temporary CP in her hometown jurisdiction after an original IL court held the case for 3 mos before ruling that
IL DID NOT HAVE ANY JURISDICTION OVER THE TX CHILDREN, or the TX father but would not release the case until the TX father filed for divorce in TX (not the law of course).  So here I am in the back of a TX court room to file for divorce claiming I don't believe in divorce.  I became TX temporary CP and the judge threw in there that neither parent was to have any adult of the opposite sex overnight in the presence of the children.  No order to return the children but after several attempts and a Federal order (PKPA; TX and ONLY TX IS the JURISDICTIONAL STATE) she finally appeared and became CP in the first five minutes of the hearing and I became NCP with one weekend a month visitation in mama's hometown because of the travel distance.  Under the Clean Hands Act (preamble of the PKPA) her hands were filfthy but the TX judge was pissed that a Federal judge had overridden his case.  YES AMAZING. 

With visitation in IL all atorneys (2 IL; 1 TX) advised me to forget about my kids and that they may come around when they become adults. IL attys advised I was walking on egg shells going into that county known for being very corrupt.  I followed God and went.  My mother was petrified.  Many visitation periods I ended up in the Police Station on trumped up accusations.   It all seemed to change one XMAS period at the Police Station with an assistant State's Attorney...just before instucting the officer to put me in a cell I suggested he should know I tape recorded the entire incident as I calmly displayed the recorder.   He pointed his finger in my face and said if I recorded him (brow beating,etc) he would cram it right up my ass.  I sat up pointed my finger in his face and said, without hesitation, I hadn't but if I had I would cram it right up his ass.  He stared at the ceiling for about 45 secs and the said go ahead and get out of here.  As i was leaving I said I kinda like it here.

After that LE and SA seemed all to be my friends.  What was really happening was that the kids were being abused in their home.  All 3 kids were visible in the community thru school and athletics and NOBODY WAS DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT, ALL HIDDEN NO CPS REPORTS.
Basically, all hell broke loose the following August.  On visitation, I simply asked YS (9) how was the 4th of July and he broke down (highly unusual for him). It was bad. 

Long story short, I came back to TX immediately found TX would not DO ANYTHING.  Made a phone call and got an IL job (ding ding IT consultant at IL DCFS) and came back to the same IL county (freind made CS payments in TX with my checks)  where the family had lived for years.  On 91st day (90 for residency) I filed in IL county.  Mama jumps on plane and gets TX judge to get permanent custody and I got 14 hour notice. Note that Federal court had previously ordered mama's corrupt county to NEVER AGAIN have any thing to do with kids.

In a few months, the authorities called for me to get the DAU (15) and OS (14) out of jail.
Both charged with assault to SF (6' 4"; 240 lps) ...both kids about 5'4 and 110 in good shape.  SP had OS on floor slapping around.  DAU wakens jumps into fray and also gets beaten.  OS get loose and grabs fireplace poker then chased SF from house.  Apparently typical behavior for SF and BM who does nothing to protect her children. The juvies (guns, knives, num chucks, fighting) are with me for months and things are getting better.  Psychiatrics, juvenile specialists, etc.  Serious threats from Dau boyfreind to OS and self.

SF's BM files Parental Termination against SF and BM. During trial I finally got to waltz but into the SA office and informed him I was taking the children BACK HOME to TX cuz if I did'nt someone was going to end up seriously injured or dead.  He was fully in agreement (he knew more that I) but only nodded ... no voice ... he remembered the tape recording.  NO Court Order.

Much thanks to the police officer that was terminated because he took Dau to hospital.
Two black eyes, both cheeks bruised, human bite on the thigh thru her levi's that broke the skin.  Thanks to Dallas TX Father's for Equal Rights and too many moms and dads in two states.  Thanks to a TX city PD, the schools and the church.  Most of all ... thank God. 

Back in TX.  Both sons graduated high school (late 80's early 90's) with some fuss from feminist in the schools and church because mama not around.  That was fun..  Attended college on athletic scholarship   (one NCAA div 1; freshman starter).  YS has a Master's in Biblical studies and pastored for approx 10 yrs before formimg a successful Lawn Care Landscaping company.  OS, the former hard core juvie is working on Master in theology and refuses to live in the USA (I wonder why).

BM convinced Dau to return to IL shortly after coming back to TX.  You really don't want to know.

Powerful Tx judge has been powerful SA for yrs.  Family law specialist that wanted 50K upfront rewrote family matter proceedures that has been adopted by two other counties. 

I beg everybody focus on children and not rely or depend on the courts or the social systems...they're all about defeating the family. power and money.

[MomofTwo]

Your story doesn't give you the right or expertise to criticize and be condescending to everyone else on this board.   You are not the sole matter expert in all things considered family law and specifically jurisdiction issues.

I am very sorry your children had to go through that, but that doesn't give you the right to be derrogatory to me or anyone else here or was simply offering advice based on our knowledge.

I don't think anyone believed you were an arrogant lawyer, but your posts clearly convey arrogance.

It would be helpful to posters and responders if you have a different point of view to simply outline what you feel are the best steps for that poster to take without criticizing everyone else's advice.

[Davy]

Again, this site is not about "Superior mother of Two".  It's about children.  I don't exist and neither do my children or YOUR children to promote your SELF SERVING EGO.  Get over yourself.

It is plain that you are not able to to understand the gist of my post.  Basically, it pointed out that our entire system is BROKEN due to bias and prejudices leading to dual standards. There is a great unncessary suffering due to this lack of jurispurdence and civility.  Children are vulnerable and placed at great risk.

Even with the long post it was just a brief narrative of the both the short and long term events and consequences. Much of what happened is unprintable and unbelievable.

Please do not continue to post advice that could very well prove to be a detriment to this child in exchange for a brief feel good result.

BTW, it is a good thing that I'm responding to your post rather than any of my children. 

[Kitty C.]

Davy,

This is getting out of hand.  Every single person here is here because of their children and for you to paint everyone but you with the same brush of self-interest is extremely narrow minded.  In your responses to this thread, I've noticed quite a bit of sarcasm and arrogance, which has no place in this forum, either.

I and everyone else here agree with you wholeheartedly that the system is broken....you're preaching to the choir here.  But, short of changing the laws (which should also be everyone's goal here), we have NO choice but to work with what we've got.  If two parents can come to an amicable agreement on custody, more power to them.  But when it becomes contentious, there is no other choice than court.  And given the disparity of laws and the way they are interpreted in any given jurisdiction, I still stand by my original statement that what may work for one may not work for another.  And in order to get an order that can be enforced, it has to be approved by the court.

Everyone here who has been 'through the system' and lived to tell about it will also agree with you that it is a horrible experience for everyone involved, especially the children.  And if there appears to be 'indifference' towards children, it is from the 'system' who treats them that way.  We ALL know that their tagline of 'best interest of the children' is complete hogwash.

Bottom line, that's why this site is here.........to protect our children, to help those who need guidance in their effort to protect their children, and to come together as one to fight for our children against a system that only sees family court as a money-making machine.  Every case is as different as fingerprints and any and all advice one can get or give on this site has the potential to be useful to someone. 

If there is some other avenue other than court that would assist those in contentious cases that would ensure their children have the access to both parents they are entitled to, I and I'm sure everyone else here would be all ears.  But we all know there isn't, so we work with what we've got, as diversified as that is. 

[ocean]

Thanks Kitty..
The only reason he got custody was the abuse and they were taken out of BM home. He tried to fight in all those states and still couldn't do it. The family court system is completely broken and I have no faith in the system here in NY. They do what they want and in our case it was the judge who couldnt make a decision and would not enforce a court order that was already given.

[shaden3]

It's good to be educated as you can, especially when dealing with weighty fees to attorneys, for traveling, child support, and related expenses to living apart.

When jurisdiction is up to the discretion of a particular judge, orders across the country (and within states) are going to seem inconsistent, for sure. Sometimes in a complicated matter, a court will defer to another state's jurisdiction, sometimes it will not. Important to note, in addition, that the 6-month jurisidictional shift normally addresses custody-visitation issues, and not child support cases. Also, requesting a telephonic appearance (while not the best scenario) is certainly a possibility when the travel is impossible and/or too expensive.

Is this for a modification of child support, or is the issue more connected to seeking a parenting time order? Again, these things are complicated sometimes to the point of utter confusion, but it's good that this forum is here to gather info, heed warnings, take encouragement, and learn. Agreed, however, that giving what amounts to legal advice can be an unfortunate business for someone when every situation exists in its very own bubble.

[pgh115]

IT is both! Like i said before just looking for the most efficiant way to spend the little money i do have to fight this! AS for this next court battle will restrict me from seeing my daughter for another 5-6 months. I know i have to do it at somepoint but is it even worth it, should i let things be and just save my money for the next time she will let me see her. Id like the ex to pay for most of the traval because she moved! From the comments i see that prolly wont happen! and i know from past experiance at court its a complete wast of emotion, time, and money!