Force Visitation?

[evilstep]

Hi, new here.  I've been reading some of the other posts, and I've seen a lot of stories similar to what my DH is going through.

DH's kids, 14 and 12, have been gradually pulling away from him for quite some time, and we suspect PA to be the culprit.  The CO visitation is supposed to be three weekends a month, but about a year ago, BM talked him into dropping it to two weekends, because she wasn't getting enough "fun" time with the kids.  (she later told him that this decrease in visitation was actually at the kids request, but she's a liar, so who knows?)  Well, the last time he saw his kids, they basically told him that having to spend two weekends a month with him is too much of an infringement on their personal lives, and seemingly NO weekends would be preferable to them.

There's more to it, but to make a long story short:  that was three months ago, and they haven't come since then.  He's contacted both kids, either by phone or email, several times, and was blown off; basically, "don't call us, we'll call you."  Naturally, BM is permitting this, and saying that "they think for themselves" and "they make up their own minds."

Anyhow, to get to my question... we've considered forcing the visitation, but why bother?  I mean, how will it help things for DH to drag his kids here against there will?  They'll just sulk and be rotten the whole time, and DH gets more salt rubbed into his wounds!  Personally, I don't care if they never come back, and I've already told DH that if they do, our son and I will be spending the weekend elsewhere.  DH isn't really too keen on the idea of forcing them to visit, either; he would never admit this but, after some of the hurtful things that they said to him, I don't think he's really too eager to spend any time with them, either!  The kids, of course, have already been "reprogrammed" by their so-called mother, so any inkling of remorse or accountability that they might have had is long gone!

So, that's my question... if they hate us so much, and don't want to be here, why add insult to injury by forcing the issue?

[Peanutsdad]

LOL


Dont ya luv it when a cp says " they think for themselves",,,,yet,, oh HELL no if the thoughts they have are move to the ncp home.



Your DH is the only one that knows whats right to do in this.


I think it's important to note,, the things unsaid. Your own feelings in the matter tell me that there are hard feelings between the half sibs, and hard feelings toards the (your steps) and yourself. I also feel that its been an ongoing thing for quite some time. Would I be far off the mark if I thought some of this tension is brought about by resentment the steps have for their half sib?



Considering the dynamics in place between everyone, no, I wouldnt endorse "forcing" the issue unless there was a long round of family therapy between the steps, yours and your DH's child, DH and yourself.

[SLYarnell]

If the children didnt want to go to school, would your force them?

If the children were ill and needed Dr.s care and didnt want to go, would you force them?

If the children wanted to do something harmful, would you stop them?

OF COURSE!!!

How is visitation with his children any different???

Those children NEED a relationship with their father and YOU need to encourage it!

There never should have been a decision to give up ordered visitation time and when the first time visitation didnt occur there should have been notification you would be filing contempt charges.  It isnt a decision she can make, the court made the decisions and until the court changes them they should be followed or contempt threatened.

I know they might not state it your husbands children need a STABLE relationship they can count on from him.  How would you feel if he just gave up on you?  Why should it be any different for them?

I know it is often a longhard battle... but please please please dont ever give up on a child...

[Ref]

If you see the parenting forum you will see that I have been going through the same type of stuff. In my case it IS the BM. When SD actually came to our house, even after threats of sulking the whole time or even running away,  she was just fine. I thought I was going to have a heart attack and didn't have  any real sleep the week before, but I think it was worth it.

The only reason why I say that forcing it might be good for them is without your influence they WILL pick sides and it wont be yours. You need for them to come to your home and be a part of your family and even if it means sulking and pissing and moaning, eventually they will figure out that it isn't so bad.

Do you think that their BM is capable of teaching them how to be well balanced adults? Chances are not. They need you. More importantly, they need their dad.

On another note, I had a hard time looking at SD after some of the crap she pulled. I figured out what the benefits of being a SM were. I could make a hair appointment, run errands or do whatever and I could escape the drama. Ofcourse, I love DH and wouldn't want to abandon his needs but sometimes I think it is great to be able to run away and come bak refreshed.  Plus the one on one time that they get is wonderful.

Why don't you and your child spend an overnight at a family member's house or go camping and come back and spend only half the time with your SKs?

Just a thought

Ref

[LizaLou1]

Been in your shoes, expect the visitation is long distance.  The BM is very active with PA.   DH "forced" kids to visit, even going to court over it.  Allowing the kids to make the decision only puts them in the middle.  Judge said kids don't get to decide when and when not to visit.  BM was found in contempt even though it was the kids' decision.  The truth of the matter was the kids were afraid of what their mom would do if the "wanted" to visit.  Now they are punished for visiting by being put on 18 hour bus trip instead of transporting them herself.  Judge has warned her not to do it again, but we'll see.

Most, recently the BM's need to trash DH to the kids and  need to control everything is pushing the kids away.  OSS was kicked out because he wanted to live with Dad.  He has been with us for about a month and a joy to have around.

Best of luck

Lizalou

[cinb85]

and I've got to say that once children reach the age of 13, they do not want to spend time with either parent.  My daughter wants to spend all of her time with her friends.  

It isn't always the CP who causes the children to now want to visit the NCP.  I know that's not true in all cases, but just remember that once children become teenagers, their interests change dramatically!

I ENCOURAGE our daughter to visit her grandparents (her father is incarcerated).  I am the one who makes sure that she calls from time to time (since they never call her) to keep in touch with his family.  Not all CPs discourage their children from visiting the NCP.

I don't think that forcing your DH's children to visit will do any good.  Just tell him to call them often to let them know that he is thinking about them and "maybe" they'll call back and ask to come for a visit!

Good luck!

[cinb85]

meant to say "It isn't always the CP who causes the children to NOT want to visit the NCP"

[Ref]

Do you think it would be ok for your 13 year old to live with her friends because she doesn't want to spend the time with either parent? Then why can it be justified that a parent can be shut out of the kids life (either CP or NCP) because of their social life.

I understand the point that these kids are more active at these ages, but this is also such a crucial age for kids, especially girls, to have as much contact with their dad as possible.

I was bummed when I was a kid and had to go to my dad's. I sucked it up and always survived. Not that I am older I am so happy that I had that time with him, even if I fought it then.

My dad fighting for me DID do good and I encourage anyone out there to keep fighting. Don't settle for your child to "maybe " call you back. If you are a parent, your child should never be allowed to ignore your calls or refuse your time because they don't feel like it. No CP would put up with it and I don't think and NCP should either.

Best of Luck to all

[Kitty C.]

I have a 15 y.o. son, and many here know the trials that child has gone thru.  Then when you add hormones on top of that and contributing to it, it can be hell sometimes.  But I don't equate this as being ANY different than anything else he HAS to do.  Unfortunately, his father passed away 2 years ago, but even back then he had mentioned what would happen if he had a summer job, what if he didn't want to go see his dad for the summer??  I told him that under NO uncertain terms he would be going, whether he liked it or not.  I didn't care if he had a good-paying job or a girlfriend, he was going.  After that, he never questioned it.

As it is, he will still be going there next summer.  The only reason why he didn't this year was because of summer school and his SM and half sister said that education was more important.  But I know that he will be making plans eventually and I keep reminding him that he MUST make room for his dad's family as well.

He equates it to just exactly what the other poster spoke of:  it is considered as HIGH a priority as school and my responsibility to keep him safe.  That is one very strong boundary that, when parents establish it, the children will NOT question.  Sure, they may grouse for a while, but I'm not here to be his friend, I'm his PARENT.

There were many things that my parents forced me to do, or forbid me to do, when I was a teenager...and I know that at the time I hated them for it.  But within just a few years, I understood why they did what they did, because they loved and cared for me.  That means more to me now then a few hurt feelings then.

And I know that DS would say the same thing..........  

[msme]

By not forcing visitation, your hubby is reinforcing her PAS. She is probably telling them that he is no good, he doesn't love them, he really doesn't want them or to be with them, he really only saw them because the court ordered him to, see how glad he is not to have them, etc, etc, etc.

Add to that: see how much mom loves you, mom won't make you go see that awful person, mom will protect you from him, mom can give you everything you need so you don't need him, etc, etc, etc.

By not fighting, you are telling the kids that she is right, dad doesn't love us enough to fight for us, dad doesn't really care what happens to us, dad really is the jerk that mom says he is, etc, etc, etc.

He needs to send her a letter of intent to exercise his visitation. When he arrives, he can tell the kids that he tried it her way but it is intolerable & they will visit. If they refuse, call the sheriff. Make sure you have a copy of the CO in hand.

If the sheriff will not intervene, get a copy of the incident report & file contempt. Inform her that he will file contempt every time they do not come.

Good luck & God bless.

You never get a second chance to make a first impression!